Collins2000 wrote:Well that was a fun hour but now I have to leave you.
There's 4 cubic metres of earth out front that aint gonna shift itself.
Gran, time for you to get up and empty your colestomy bag, wash your false choppers and head on down town for next weeks supply of frozen dinners for one.
Ciao, big fella.
The homosexually fixated collins has never made a post on boxing.
I Feel Fine wrote:Granberry dancing around the point, as usual...
Frazier knocking Ali down was nice, it was an iconic moment in the sports history, and it says nothing about who was the better fighter. TKO's trump knockdowns, and Frazier was down a lot more often in his career. Unless you feel that Leonard was better than Benitez... do you dingleberry? Say it aint so.
Ifeellikkeafairy is like all Ali shills.
He keeps repeating the same pathetic talking points of his Religion of Ali.
The mantras for the Ali shill are two in number:
1-- "If Thomas Hauser didn't say it, it isn't true."
2-- "If Thomas Hauser didn't say it, it isn't true."
Hard for me to remember but did that big thunderous puncher up there in that last contribution knock down Ali? Even one time? For the life of me I can't recall. I'm not talkin about the fella giving into gravity, but that other thunderous puncher.
Didn't that Ali fella knock down that guy? Somebody set me straight. I know it doesn't mean anything, but did it happen? Or was that some sort of media hype?
I don't see how anyone can say Ali was a better fighter than Duran. His accomplishments are right there, but if they were the same size, Ali would be in for a prolonged beating. Duran was pretty much better at everything. Ali's only edge would be foot speed and jab. Both would be pretty useless with his back against the ropes.
Edit: Not to imply that Ali wouldn't be in the fight. I just can't see him winning.
I personally won't argue with someone picking Duran, to me its a toss up as to whom I would rank higher. I do side with Ali and I think my reasons that I gave were fair, but I can of course see how someone could pick Duran. But I don't like the idea of trying to analyze what would happen if you put them in the ring together, its difficult to know how real Heavyweights would do against other real Heavyweights if they haven't fought, much less pretending that you can know how Ali would react to Duran's punch if Duran were a Heavyweight or Ali a Lightweight and so forth. The only thing I would contend with is that movement and a jab doesn't seem like the worst way to beat a Duran, and the suggestion that Ali would be on the ropes is sort of ignoring what he was in his prime where he was never on the ropes, since I presume you're thinking prime for prime. Bizzarro and Viruet weren't as good as Ali and they lasted quite a good long time just running their little asses off; Viruet gave Duran some very good fights, two of his most competitive at Lightweight, the only guy to go the full 15 with him. The rope-a-dope came later when Ali had lost a lot of his leg speed and especially when he was old and tiring, a prime Lightweight Ali would have quite an abundance of speed and stamina. But, again, I don't know how these sort of fictive fights would go, nor will I pretend to, nor do I find this a particularly good way of judging who was better.
I think he would be forced to the ropes, but fair point about P4P fights or any mythical match up. people(myself included) have preconceived notions and we all forget that the unexpected is to be expected in the squared circle. I could go on and on for hours about why monzon would rape Michael Nunn. But I could end up surprised if they fought.
Ali's accomplishments are right there, I don't think he was as talented as duran offensively or defensively. Toughness & chin are a wash.
Duran carried Viruet a bit to inflict maximum damage. A lot of bad blood there and they were excellent fights. Bizarro was nearly murdered.
My point about Bizzarro was that he was a fighter who wasn't anywhere near as good as an Ali pound for pound but he was able to last a long time by moving and not standing in front of Duran. You don't have to tell me about how brutal the KO was, its one of the most brutal KO's I've ever seen, but he did make it to the 15th round without having any kind of skill comparable to an Ali. Viruet was competitive, whether or not Duran carried him I don't know, maybe he did, but my point was again that with some movement he wasn't as easily beaten as those who stood right in front of Duran.
As for the rest of your post... fair enough.
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I think he would be forced to the ropes, but fair point about P4P fights or any mythical match up. people(myself included) have preconceived notions and we all forget that the unexpected is to be expected in the squared circle. I could go on and on for hours about why monzon would rape Michael Nunn. But I could end up surprised if they fought.
Ali's accomplishments are right there, I don't think he was as talented as duran offensively or defensively. Toughness & chin are a wash.
Duran carried Viruet a bit to inflict maximum damage. A lot of bad blood there and they were excellent fights. Bizarro was nearly murdered.
Re: Murdered. So was Ray Lampkin and Davey Moore.
I'd probably go 1. Duran Close 2. Ali 3. Monzon 4. Toss up to me between Arguello, Leonard, Whitaker, Chavez, Hagler.
However, if Manny P KOs Cotto and PBF, he may belong on this list too. (At least top 10)
Ali could beat anybody, I grew up watching him and soured a bit as I aged from all the Frazier stuff outside of the ropes. I'm also a Duran hugger, so I can admit that I have probably over stated my case here.
I'm also a big Duran fan, he and Ali are my favorite fighters. I saw Duran-Barkley again the other day, the sport doesn't get much better than in that fight.
Saad is also among my favorites, I should add, my favorite Light Heavyweight.
Yes, I've seen the Marcel fight. Underrated win for Duran. Duran has two wins over fighters who beat Alexis Arguello, which is something rarely pointed out.
