BoxRec

opticald wrote:He should be the WBA champion. He got robbed against Valuev. I think he would beat Haye even at this late stage of his career.

I think Haye would put him in hospital for a long time!

Deserter wrote:

opticald wrote: Why do you keep commenting and arguing about a fight you admittedly HAVEN'T SEEN??

Do you not see the idiocy there??

The only idiocy is yours - I'm not arguing about that fight. I'm pointing out there are differing opinions as to who 'really' won it, which unfortunately for you is a statement of fact. Please make an effort to grasp that - at least with Wales I get a decent debate rather than your moronic nonsense.

Mate, you are basing your argument on differing opinions. You cannot even take the time to form your own opinion on the fight by watching it. Which seems a bit flabbergasting to me since that particular fight is INTEGRAL to what we are actually discussing.,

opticald wrote:

Deserter wrote:

opticald wrote: Why do you keep commenting and arguing about a fight you admittedly HAVEN'T SEEN??

Do you not see the idiocy there??

The only idiocy is yours - I'm not arguing about that fight. I'm pointing out there are differing opinions as to who 'really' won it, which unfortunately for you is a statement of fact. Please make an effort to grasp that - at least with Wales I get a decent debate rather than your moronic nonsense.

Mate, you are basing your argument on differing opinions. You cannot even take the time to form your own opinion on the fight by watching it. Which seems a bit flabbergasting to me since that particular fight is INTEGRAL to what we are actually discussing.,

It is not integral to what we are actually discussing because even if I watch the fight and conclude that Holyfield should have won, I still will not in any way, shape or form be in favour of Haye making a defence against Holyfield should he wrest the title from Valuev - and that's what the core argument has always been about.
Some of you feel that him losing a contentious verdict entitles him to yet another challenge. Others of us say he's had plenty of opportunities in the past and that he's now a 46-year-old who, if you exclude Valuev, has been beaten conclusively by every top fighter he's faced since 2002.
I genuinely believe he's now at the stage where he could get badly hurt in the ring and the fact the Valuev verdict was a contentious one actually gives him the chance to retire on a relative high rather than it being forced on him by virtue of a hiding from some 'young gun' who wouldn't have been able to live with Holyfield in his prime.
I just don't understand why some people are keen on seeing this 46-year-old legend prolong his career unnecessarily, especially when there are plenty of sad precedents to draw on.

Its ironic that Holyfield says Haye is not deserving....... even in his prime Holyfield has Don King to thank for fabulous connections. After losing a fight/title Holyfield would always land another title shot within a couple of fights.
Lennox Lewis was frozen out for 3 years after losing his title in 1994...... when Holyfield lost the Undisputed title to Lewis, Holyfield got a title shot next fight when the WBA belt was vacated..... Bowe KO'd Holyfield in 1995, yet Holyfield gets the title shot at Tyson next year..... despite a horrendous recent run Holyfield still landed title shots when old and washed up... a WBO shot at Ibragimov and despite being on a LOSING STREAK gets a WBA shot at Valuev??? Its crazy.

DavidPayne wrote:Are you lot fkking barmy. What has Evander Holyfield done deserve a fight with Haye?

Have I entered a parallel world where Haye is Joe Louis and Holyfield, Tony Galento?

Haye is still the ex-Cruiserweight champion with wins over Tomasz Bonin and Monte Barrett, those two bastions of greatness among the big-men?

And Holyfield, though 79 years old, is still the four time heavyweight champion who recently almost beat Valuev away from home despite his vintage years.

And that discounts the commercial advantages.

Holyfield is exactly the type of opponent Haye should have slotted in between the Maccarinelli farce and his mysteriously convenient bad back.

The delusion. I'm not suggesting Haye couldn't beat him, but fkk me, we're all getting a bit star struck here aren't we? I take David is poking you all regularly on Facebook.

Good fighter. Lots to prove at heavyweight.

The reality is that Evander Holyfield even at this stage of his career, could quite possibly knock out David Haye.

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Now I was a massive Holyfield fan and at his peak one of the all-time greats but he's lost the plot completely.

He goes on about David Haye not deserving a title shot and how when he moved up from cruiser he fought six times before he became no1 contender to fight the Tyson v Douglas winner.

Fair point, but he then goes on about Haye giving him a title shot if he beats Valuev and how he wouldn't fight Haye if HE was champion...

But what has HE done to deserve a fight with Haye. In fact, what has he really done in the last few years to deserve any of the title shots he's had. He's lost all touch with reality (and probably isn't as sharp as he should be considering the punishment he's taken over the years anyhow).

Good grief why can't he just let go and get on with his life. Assume he needs the money... which is even more tragic after all of the hard work he's put in and fantastic fights he's given us over the years.

Holyfield makes me want to cry.

I just wish he'd retire & enjoy his life.

He's tarnishing a great legacy & who knows where it will end?

McCannW14 wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:Are you lot fkking barmy. What has Evander Holyfield done deserve a fight with Haye?

Have I entered a parallel world where Haye is Joe Louis and Holyfield, Tony Galento?

Haye is still the ex-Cruiserweight champion with wins over Tomasz Bonin and Monte Barrett, those two bastions of greatness among the big-men?

And Holyfield, though 79 years old, is still the four time heavyweight champion who recently almost beat Valuev away from home despite his vintage years.

And that discounts the commercial advantages.

Holyfield is exactly the type of opponent Haye should have slotted in between the Maccarinelli farce and his mysteriously convenient bad back.

The delusion. I'm not suggesting Haye couldn't beat him, but fkk me, we're all getting a bit star struck here aren't we? I take David is poking you all regularly on Facebook.

Good fighter. Lots to prove at heavyweight.

The reality is that Evander Holyfield even at this stage of his career, could quite possibly knock out David Haye.

Exactly. Who here would bet on Haye to beat Holyfield? Haye would probably be a 1/2 favourite. I'd have a big bet on holyfield.

opticald wrote: Who here would bet on Haye to beat Holyfield?

I would put big, big money on Haye. In his prime he'd have stopped Haye, but Holyfield is completely finished as a force in the heavyweight division and one fight against an opponent who was almost designed to make him look better than he actually is doesn't change that.
The man's 46-years-old for Christ's sake.

Deserter wrote:

opticald wrote: Who here would bet on Haye to beat Holyfield?

I would put big, big money on Haye. In his prime he'd have stopped Haye, but Holyfield is completely finished as a force in the heavyweight division and one fight against an opponent who was almost designed to make him look better than he actually is doesn't change that.
The man's 46-years-old for Christ's sake.

Holyfield still has better stamina than Haye and better chin. His performance against Valuev was superb imo and Haye will do well to come close to matching the movement and skill Holyfield showed. I'd have no problem putting a considerable sum of money on Holyfield to be too good for Haye at this stage.

opticald wrote:

Deserter wrote:

opticald wrote: Who here would bet on Haye to beat Holyfield?

I would put big, big money on Haye. In his prime he'd have stopped Haye, but Holyfield is completely finished as a force in the heavyweight division and one fight against an opponent who was almost designed to make him look better than he actually is doesn't change that.
The man's 46-years-old for Christ's sake.

Holyfield still has better stamina than Haye and better chin. His performance against Valuev was superb imo and Haye will do well to come close to matching the movement and skill Holyfield showed. I'd have no problem putting a considerable sum of money on Holyfield to be too good for Haye at this stage.

He's definitely got a better chin than Haye, I wouldn't dispute that, but the one thing he's got over Holy in spades is speed, and if you look at all Holyfield's defeats in the past few years that's the one common denominator. At his age he just hasn't got the reflexes to cope.
I also think Haye's stamina is better than it was - look at the Frag and Mormeck wins, for example. And the pace Holyfield sets these days isn't going to push Haye out of his comfort zone in this dept.

We'll agree to disagree. We might see it happen. Remember that Barrett had Haye down and hurt afterwards, as he took a knee to recover. Holyfield hits harder. I can't see Haye taking holyfields hooks and right hands. I believe Haye is very overrated at heavy and has not proved anything there. With his chin, you could be brave to put big amounts of money on him. I don't see him getting past Valuev (whether he wins the decision or not, he'll get robbed and I don't see him KOing Valuev).

opticald wrote:We'll agree to disagree. We might see it happen. Remember that Barrett had Haye down and hurt afterwards, as he took a knee to recover. Holyfield hits harder. I can't see Haye taking holyfields hooks and right hands. I believe Haye is very overrated at heavy and has not proved anything there. With his chin, you could be brave to put big amounts of money on him. I don't see him getting past Valuev (whether he wins the decision or not, he'll get robbed and I don't see him KOing Valuev).

With reference to his power, it's worth bearing in mind that bar the 'comedy acts' of Jeremy Bates and Vinny Maddalone, Evander hasn't stopped anyone at heavy since Michael Moorer in 1997 - that's more than 12 years ago!!
Anyway, as you said, we'll agree to disagree and that's fair enough fella - like it when we can have a good debate like this and to be honest it'd be boring if we all knew definitive outcomes of fights before they'd happened

He need's to retire now he has had his day and doesnt want to tarnish his great career by going on too long he would get beat up badly if he fought a top 10 contender imo

I do genuinely hope Haye beats Valuev though. I'd love to see Haye vs Tua!!

opticald wrote:I do genuinely hope Haye beats Valuev though. I'd love to see Haye vs Tua!!

Crikey, now there is a prospect!