BoxRec

Lacy and Delaney is what I meant.

i am also of the opinion that Reid beat Calzaghe

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Seeing as you consistently seem to lambast every single opinion expressed on here, in a fit of contrarian ire, perhaps you would care to explain why us mere mortals are not entitled to comment on boxing, whilst you are uniquely qualified to deliver your lofty opinions from on high, you patronising prick.

- Why sire, thought it well established that one needs to lambast a royal rump roast with bombast before basting and then tossing on ye olde smoker for a slow wood fired grillin'.

My opinions only seem lofty from low perspective. They are no more than anyone who has studied boxing with careful consideration might come up with.

I'm in support of a significant number on this forum that nobody on the provided list can to be said as to have definitively beaten Joe in his pomp. Not that he is unbeatable or the greatest, just that it takes a special mix of style and talent to beat him that was never found in the ring with him. If forced to give the best chances of the above grouping, it has to be Eubank and Conteh, and maybe on their day on his bad day, the dirty deed could be done, but alas, was never.........more....nevermore....... 8)

Conteh would have knocked Calzaghe out !!!!!!!

Behave mate..

- Why sire, thought it well established that one needs to lambast a royal rump roast with bombast before basting and then tossing on ye olde smoker for a slow wood fired grillin'.

Oh my word, anybody who posts or talks in that style should either be locked up for life or(and my personal preference) shot in the face at point blank range with a .50 calibre rifle.

just one thing - why does the thread have to be about PRIME Calzaghe? (and what is prime Calzaghe - the Joe in his late 20s who beat Sheika, who looked the best I ever saw him PHYSICALLY? or the 34/6 yo Joe who won 2 unification bouts, in his TACTICAL prime?)

i mean, didn't he have enough advantages in his career?

i prefer to look at it like this, when the fights were within the realm of possibility/plausibility:

in 1997, Collins could have beaten him. even the best joe we ever saw, would have problems keeping a nutter like Collins off him. Collins at best (168-pounds) was just as fit as Joe, had a better chin. Would Joe's slaps keep Collins off? if Collins had been fit to fight in the late '90s, and if say Joe had been moved faster (pre-Warren, he seemed to languish)...then Joe quite possibly would not have won. maybe he would have found something, found a way. but perhaps not.

also, the '97 version of Francis was a much improved fighter. Look how much he improved in terms of fitness and technique after the stoppage to Ballogou (never mind the Joe amateur fight). Some of Deano's performances against common foes to Calzaghe and Collins, made the champs look somewhat amateurish & lacking in skill. That doesn't mean he could definitely beat them. They had superior fitness and durability to Francis...But look at all those power shots that Reid and Woodhall plastered Joe with. Reckon Francis' left hook would work a treat, vs the southpaw. Obviously, Joe and Francis came up about the same time.

Froch could have stopped the fat, greedy Joe who struggled to make super middleweight and even light heavyweight around 2007-2008. I mean, the Froch who beat Pascal and stopped Taylor. Froch is powerful, has a manic intensity at times. And unlike so many, I doubt he would hold back after shaking Joe. I think froch would go for it, if he hurt Calzaghe. Some point out Froch's shortcomings, but the fact is he's faced real adversity, vs athletically talented opponents. And he can find something in tough situations.

Joe Calzaghe's career worked out, he'll get in the HOF, he's made his money, a lot of it relatively easy. He never had to do a "Super 6" which would ensure he fights tough opponents one after the other, sometimes without home advantage. He's now on the Z-list celebrity circuit, and I wish him well. But just because he retired unbeaten, doesn't mean he's unbeatable.

'barn, in no particular order:

totally disagree Collins would be able to beat Joe (i call him Joe, you can probably tell i am biased, no? haha). Collins not particularly comfortable against southpaws, i disagree Collins had a better chin (you could argue, when they both took eubanks best, Joe took them better- Joe never put down and badly hurt by Eubs and he took some meaty shots...)

basically i think they would both be prepared to flurry, and Joe's better accuracy and handspeed means he lands more in most exchanges, gets off first beats him to punch and finishes exchanges. also joe's footwork better IMo so he would be more able to pick and choose the terms of engagement

not going to get into Joe - Froch, first time i saw froch in the flesh i thought stylistically he was made for joe, Froch has had more impressive performances since but never changed my mind

Reid, genuine question, okay so if you think Reid won the first, do tyou think a rematch would suit Joe more or Reid?

IMO Joe would do better in a rematch as he was much more versatile. ried had one game and Joe fought the only kind of fight that suited Reid (going on the front foot and trying to dominate instead of trying to set traps for reid and utilise movement and handspeed advantages)

oh and joe may well do better in rematch without hurting his ickle hand, didums.

CP - Joe doesn't do rematches!

haha i should have remembered :)

he'd do Reid easier secondtime round though, FACT etc

Maybe Bob Fitzsimmons. Don Cockell. Doubt it though.

Benn might have one time in six as he was enough of a warrior to ignore getting battered senseless and simply come out blazing. Eubank maybe one in six as he was capable of turning around an impossible situation. Herol Graham maybe one in six.

But on an average day? No one.

Bert Gilroy or Ginger Sadd?

Jock McAvoy, Len Johnson, Len Harvey, Jack Casey and a good few others I'm sure...

example McAvoy stated his hardest fight was not Thil, Harvey, John Henry Lewis, Kid Tunero, HWs Jack Peterson, Eddie Pearse, Freddie Mills, Ginger Sadd (whom some thought sqeaked it), or any other the Top men.

No McAvoy stated his hardest fight was the noted tough MW from the North East one Jack Forester. A different age, different men and certainly harder times!

Herol Graham, though he never got up to 168 until he was a veteran.

I'd have liked to have seen Dennis Andries have a go.

Autobarn wrote:CP - Joe doesn't do rematches!

He does - as long as he had a nice easy first fight with them and so is confident that he will have a nice easy remtach too

Mario Veit Won KO 1

Mario Vait Won TKO 6 or 7 (?)

28 people actually believe NO other British fighter from MW - L-HW could beat Calzaghe - man some of you Brits don't do British boxing history any justice do yah?

there are plenty that would have kicked _uck out of him!

DavidPayne wrote:Herol Graham, though he never got up to 168 until he was a veteran.

I'd have liked to have seen Dennis Andries have a go.

Have a go? Andries was a monster, no way could Calzaghe have competed with him at light heavyweight.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:Herol Graham, though he never got up to 168 until he was a veteran.

I'd have liked to have seen Dennis Andries have a go.

Have a go? Andries was a monster, no way could Calzaghe have competed with him at light heavyweight.

Andries V Calzaghe @ Light Heavyweight - would have been good

Remeber one fact - Calzaghe was floored both times in his only 2 light heavyweight bouts.

Andries would probaly be able to hurt him too.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:Herol Graham, though he never got up to 168 until he was a veteran.

I'd have liked to have seen Dennis Andries have a go.

Have a go? Andries was a monster, no way could Calzaghe have competed with him at light heavyweight.

Come on James of course he could. I'm not saying its not a great fight, its why I suggested it. But to suggest Calzaghe couldn't have competed with him at 175 is daft. For all his injuries, weak periods of opposition, Calzaghe was a world-class talent, with drive, speed, stamina and terrific recovery skills - he could adapt, had quick hands and was a hurtful puncher at his best (when he wasn't tested, sadly).

It's a terrific fight Andries v Calzaghe, wth Sibson v Froch on the undercard.

danieljenkins wrote:joe to beat all them with ease ! he beat bhop could you ever see any of them beating the old master bhop ?

Jon Conteh. The most natrually gifted british fighter of the post war period. He'd have handelled either Calzaghe or Bhop.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:Herol Graham, though he never got up to 168 until he was a veteran.

I'd have liked to have seen Dennis Andries have a go.

Have a go? Andries was a monster, no way could Calzaghe have competed with him at light heavyweight.

Andries was also an incredibly crude fighter - Joe's handspeed and angles would have led to Andries being hit like a heavy bag and losing a landslide points decision.
I love Andries as he's the classic over-achiever, but James, are you seriously saying that the guy involved in life-and-death struggles with Jeff Harding would have walked through Calzaghe? I honestly can't see it.

Michael Watson - He knocked out an undefeated Nigel Benn with one punch for the commonwealth middleweight title.

He went 11 rounds with "The Bodysnatcher" Mike McCallum. In Watson's Biography, McCallum is quoted as saying he was glad the original fight between them was postponed; because Watson was in super human condition; and he could never beat him.

And, lets face it, he whipped Chris Eubank in their first meeting; but the judges were blind that night. A disgraceful decision.

skelp wrote:Michael Watson - He knocked out an undefeated Nigel Benn with one punch for the commonwealth middleweight title.

He went 11 rounds with "The Bodysnatcher" Mike McCallum. In Watson's Biography, McCallum is quoted as saying he was glad the original fight between them was postponed; because Watson was in super human condition; and he could never beat him.

A strong breeze could have finished off Benn at that point in the fight. It wasn't a one-punch KO at all, it was the result of being absolutely run-down through a combination of throwing far too many wasted shots and being steadily countered and soaking up punishment.
As for McCallum, of course he's going to kind in that type of scenario. McCallum knows that at middle he'd have had Watson's number every time.

Arbachakov wrote:Conteh was the best of all of these fighters.He did eventually squander his talent, but for five years or so he was like a light heavy version of Jose Napoles.Just a terrific overall boxer-puncher that could take you out with either hand.

He was also one of the dirtiest fighters i've ever seen.He could maul fighters on the inside and cut them up as good as anyone.It would have been great to see old Hopkins try the kind of punch and grab, then foul tactics against John.He would have been manhandled and butted out of the fight in 5 or 6 rounds.

Totally agree. The most spiteful fighter we eva had. people forget that.

Joe's still Number 1! (wrong finger though Joe)





I really feel for Joe having all these gorgeous women throwing themselves at him