BoxRec

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

ThatOne wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:"...With that, Ali turned pensive and lectured, with some exaggeration, on the harsh realities of life back home. "In America," he said, "everything is white—Jesus, Moses and the angels. I'm glad to be here with my true people." - ThatOne

Cringe-worthy. I can only imagine how obnoxious Ali would sound, as an American, complaining to native Afrikaans about American life. American life as a celebrity, no less.

Rather like the wealthy man lamenting his steak being underdone to the destitute.

It was 1964. Landmark civil rights legislation had not been passed. That meant despite his celebrity status Ali could be refused service at a restaurant, denied lodging, consigned to a separate restroom, and not vote in the land of his birth.

As Chairman Mao said "before you speak, investigate."

Native Africans have never been able to live without their restaurants, as we are all well aware. LOL. No one ever kept them from their mudhut, refused their right to piss in a ditch, os proudly take a beating from political forces for their troubles, either.

How they must have wept for Ali.

Do they teach you about the Jim Crow South in Australia? If not maybe it is best not to comment on it. I wouldn't begin to comment on the persececution of the Indigenous Austrailians because I don't know much about them. Here are some of the Jiom Crow laws that you made light of:



From the 1880s into the 1960s, a majority of American states enforced segregation through "Jim Crow" laws (so called after a black character in minstrel shows). From Delaware to California, and from North Dakota to Texas, many states (and cities, too) could impose legal punishments on people for consorting with members of another race. The most common types of laws forbade intermarriage and ordered business owners and public institutions to keep their black and white clientele separated.
Here is a sampling of laws from various states:

Nurses No person or corporation shall require any white female nurse to nurse in wards or rooms in hospitals, either public or private, in which negro men are placed. Alabama

Buses All passenger stations in this state operated by any motor transportation company shall have separate waiting rooms or space and separate ticket windows for the white and colored races. Alabama

Railroads The conductor of each passenger train is authorized and required to assign each passenger to the car or the division of the car, when it is divided by a partition, designated for the race to which such passenger belongs. Alabama

Restaurants It shall be unlawful to conduct a restaurant or other place for the serving of food in the city, at which white and colored people are served in the same room, unless such white and colored persons are effectually separated by a solid partition extending from the floor upward to a distance of seven feet or higher, and unless a separate entrance from the street is provided for each compartment. Alabama

Pool and Billiard Rooms It shall be unlawful for a negro and white person to play together or in company with each other at any game of pool or billiards. Alabama

Toilet Facilities, Male Every employer of white or negro males shall provide for such white or negro males reasonably accessible and separate toilet facilities. Alabama

Intermarriage The marriage of a person of Caucasian blood with a Negro, Mongolian, Malay, or Hindu shall be null and void. Arizona

Intermarriage All marriages between a white person and a negro, or between a white person and a person of negro descent to the fourth generation inclusive, are hereby forever prohibited. Florida

Cohabitation Any negro man and white woman, or any white man and negro woman, who are not married to each other, who shall habitually live in and occupy in the nighttime the same room shall each be punished by imprisonment not exceeding twelve (12) months, or by fine not exceeding five hundred ($500.00) dollars. Florida

Education The schools for white children and the schools for negro children shall be conducted separately. Florida

Juvenile Delinquents There shall be separate buildings, not nearer than one fourth mile to each other, one for white boys and one for negro boys. White boys and negro boys shall not, in any manner, be associated together or worked together. Florida

Mental Hospitals The Board of Control shall see that proper and distinct apartments are arranged for said patients, so that in no case shall Negroes and white persons be together. Georgia

Intermarriage It shall be unlawful for a white person to marry anyone except a white person. Any marriage in violation of this section shall be void. Georgia

Barbers No colored barber shall serve as a barber [to] white women or girls. Georgia

Burial The officer in charge shall not bury, or allow to be buried, any colored persons upon ground set apart or used for the burial of white persons. Georgia

Restaurants All persons licensed to conduct a restaurant, shall serve either white people exclusively or colored people exclusively and shall not sell to the two races within the same room or serve the two races anywhere under the same license. Georgia

Amateur Baseball It shall be unlawful for any amateur white baseball team to play baseball on any vacant lot or baseball diamond within two blocks of a playground devoted to the Negro race, and it shall be unlawful for any amateur colored baseball team to play baseball in any vacant lot or baseball diamond within two blocks of any playground devoted to the white race. Georgia

Parks It shall be unlawful for colored people to frequent any park owned or maintained by the city for the benefit, use and enjoyment of white persons...and unlawful for any white person to frequent any park owned or maintained by the city for the use and benefit of colored persons. Georgia

Wine and Beer All persons licensed to conduct the business of selling beer or wine...shall serve either white people exclusively or colored people exclusively and shall not sell to the two races within the same room at any time. Georgia

Reform Schools The children of white and colored races committed to the houses of reform shall be kept entirely separate from each other. Kentucky

Circus Tickets All circuses, shows, and tent exhibitions, to which the attendance of...more than one race is invited or expected to attend shall provide for the convenience of its patrons not less than two ticket offices with individual ticket sellers, and not less than two entrances to the said performance, with individual ticket takers and receivers, and in the case of outside or tent performances, the said ticket offices shall not be less than twenty-five (25) feet apart. Louisiana

Housing Any person...who shall rent any part of any such building to a negro person or a negro family when such building is already in whole or in part in occupancy by a white person or white family, or vice versa when the building is in occupancy by a negro person or negro family, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine of not less than twenty-five ($25.00) nor more than one hundred ($100.00) dollars or be imprisoned not less than 10, or more than 60 days, or both such fine and imprisonment in the discretion of the court. Louisiana

The Blind The board of trustees shall...maintain a separate building...on separate ground for the admission, care, instruction, and support of all blind persons of the colored or black race. Louisiana

Intermarriage All marriages between a white person and a negro, or between a white person and a person of negro descent, to the third generation, inclusive, or between a white person and a member of the Malay race; or between the negro a nd a member of the Malay race; or between a person of Negro descent, to the third generation, inclusive, and a member of the Malay race, are forever prohibited, and shall be void. Maryland

Railroads All railroad companies and corporations, and all persons running or operating cars or coaches by steam on any railroad line or track in the State of Maryland, for the transportation of passengers, are hereby required to provide separate cars or coaches for the travel and transportation of the white and colored passengers. Maryland

Education Separate schools shall be maintained for the children of the white and colored races. Mississippi

Promotion of Equality Any person...who shall be guilty of printing, publishing or circulating printed, typewritten or written matter urging or presenting for public acceptance or general information, arguments or suggestions in favor of social equality or of intermarriage between whites and negroes, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to fine or not exceeding five hundred (500.00) dollars or imprisonment not exceeding six (6) months or both. Mississippi

Intermarriage The marriage of a white person with a negro or mulatto or person who shall have one-eighth or more of negro blood, shall be unlawful and void. Mississippi

Hospital Entrances There shall be maintained by the governing authorities of every hospital maintained by the state for treatment of white and colored patients separate entrances for white and colored patients and visitors, and such entrances shall be used by the race only for which they are prepared. Mississippi

Prisons The warden shall see that the white convicts shall have separate apartments for both eating and sleeping from the negro convicts. Mississippi

Education Separate free schools shall be established for the education of children of African descent; and it shall be unlawful for any colored child to attend any white school, or any white child to attend a colored school. Missouri

Intermarriage All marriages between...white persons and negroes or white persons and Mongolians...are prohibited and declared absolutely void...No person having one-eighth part or more of negro blood shall be permitted to marry any white person, nor shall any white person be permitted to marry any negro or person having one-eighth part or more of negro blood. Missouri

Education Separate rooms [shall] be provided for the teaching of pupils of African descent, and [when] said rooms are so provided, such pupils may not be admitted to the school rooms occupied and used by pupils of Caucasian or other descent. New Mexico

Textbooks Books shall not be interchangeable between the white and colored schools, but shall continue to be used by the race first using them. North Carolina

Libraries The state librarian is directed to fit up and maintain a separate place for the use of the colored people who may come to the library for the purpose of reading books or periodicals. North Carolina

Militia The white and colored militia shall be separately enrolled, and shall never be compelled to serve in the same organization.No organization of colored troops shall be permitted where white troops are available, and while white permitted to be organized, colored troops shall be under the command of white officers. North Carolina

Transportation The...Utilities Commission...is empowered and directed to require the establishment of separate waiting rooms at all stations for the white and colored races. North Carolina

Teaching Any instructor who shall teach in any school, college or institution where members of the white and colored race are received and enrolled as pupils for instruction shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction thereof, shall be fined in any sum not less than ten dollars ($10.00) nor more than fifty dollars ($50.00) for each offense. Oklahoma

Fishing, Boating, and Bathing The [Conservation] Commission shall have the right to make segregation of the white and colored races as to the exercise of rights of fishing, boating and bathing. Oklahoma

Mining The baths and lockers for the negroes shall be separate from the white race, but may be in the same building. Oklahoma

Telephone Booths The Corporation Commission is hereby vested with power and authority to require telephone companies...to maintain separate booths for white and colored patrons when there is a demand for such separate booths. That the Corporation Commission shall determine the necessity for said separate booths only upon complaint of the people in the town and vicinity to be served after due hearing as now provided by law in other complaints filed with the Corporation Commission. Oklahoma

Lunch Counters No persons, firms, or corporations, who or which furnish meals to passengers at station restaurants or station eating houses, in times limited by common carriers of said passengers, shall furnish said meals to white and colored passengers in the same room, or at the same table, or at the same counter. South Carolina

Child Custody It shall be unlawful for any parent, relative, or other white person in this State, having the control or custody of any white child, by right of guardianship, natural or acquired, or otherwise, to dispose of, give or surrender such white child permanently into the custody, control, maintenance, or support, of a negro. South Carolina

Libraries Any white person of such county may use the county free library under the rules and regulations prescribed by the commissioners court and may be entitled to all the privileges thereof. Said court shall make proper provision for the negroes of said county to be served through a separate branch or branches of the county free library, which shall be administered by [a] custodian of the negro race under the supervision of the county librarian. Texas

Education [The County Board of Education] shall provide schools of two kinds; those for white children and those for colored children. Texas

Theaters Every person...operating...any public hall, theatre, opera house, motion picture show or any place of public entertainment or public assemblage which is attended by both white and colored persons, shall separate the white race and the colored race and shall set apart and designate...certain seats therein to be occupied by white persons and a portion thereof , or certain seats therein, to be occupied by colored persons. Virginia

Railroads The conductors or managers on all such railroads shall have power, and are hereby required, to assign to each white or colored passenger his or her respective car, coach or compartment. If the passenger fails to disclose his race, the conductor and managers, acting in good faith, shall be the sole judges of his race. Virginia

Intermarriage All marriages of white persons with Negroes, Mulattos, Mongolians, or Malaya hereafter contracted in the State of Wyoming are and shall be illegal and void. Wyoming






http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/jcrow02.htm

Native Africans have never been able to live without their restaurants, as we are all well aware. LOL. No one ever kept them from their mudhut, refused their right to piss in a ditch, os proudly take a beating from political forces for their troubles, either.

How they must have wept for Ali.

-Good Night Irene



Before I waste a lot of bandwidth on this argument I want to make sure I understand your argument. Is your argument that slavery and Jim Crow were relatively benign institutions and African Americans had no right to complain?

I would submit that slavery in America was beyond barbaric and that the Jim Crows laws in the post Civil War South were every bit as pernicious as the Nuremberg Laws in Nazi Germany but I think you know that.


I am also puzzled by the logic that leads one to argue that America's enslavement of Africans and their subsequent disenfranchisement and persecution after they were forcefully freed is mitigated by America's destruction of the American Indian or Native American.


That's akin to arguing that Japan's brutal occupation of the Philippines was mitigated by the Rape Of Nanking


Could you explain that to me?


Thank you.

Panzerfaust wrote:Jack Dempsey certainly reflected the time he fought in atleast in the us. Jack Dempsey and the roaring 20s

Nobody here is arguing that. In the annals of American sports few if any loom as large as Jack Dempsey. What is being argued is world wide popularity. I would argue that was Muhammad Ali's domain and it had a lot more to do with his politics and his embrace of a religion that has nearly 2 billion adherents than the advent of the radio, tv, sattelite, internet, et cetera.

I think thats a valid point... Ali appealed to more communities that simply that of the boxing fan... its impossible to say how Dempsey would have fared in Ali's era in terms of popularity, because of all the things that made the era's different... if there had been no Ali figure in the 60's and 70's, would the emergence of one today - with all the attendant politics and posturing - be received as readily? Most boxers today knowingly or unknowingly are copying from the Ali book of how to sell a fight and a fighter - not that Ali wrote that book but he certainly added some big parts to it.

ThatOne wrote: Nobody here is arguing that. In the annals of American sports few if any loom as large as Jack Dempsey. What is being argued is world wide popularity. I would argue that was Muhammad Ali's domain and it had a lot more to do with his politics and his embrace of a religion that has nearly 2 billion adherents than the advent of the radio, tv, sattelite, internet, et cetera.

I certainly believe it would be easier for people in the third world to relate to Ali who was a black muslim,rather than a white man.
Was Ali the most influential boxer ever? as far as i know he was.
Was he the most influential to boxings popularity?? hell no.
The fact that such a famous and revvered man got parkinsons from it prolly turned alot of people of boxing ,aswell as feeding the antagonists.

Panzerfaust wrote:

ThatOne wrote: Nobody here is arguing that. In the annals of American sports few if any loom as large as Jack Dempsey. What is being argued is world wide popularity. I would argue that was Muhammad Ali's domain and it had a lot more to do with his politics and his embrace of a religion that has nearly 2 billion adherents than the advent of the radio, tv, sattelite, internet, et cetera.

I certainly believe it would be easier for people in the third world to relate to Ali who was a black muslim,rather than a white man.
Was Ali the most influential boxer ever? as far as i know he was.
Was he the most influential to boxings popularity?? hell no.
The fact that such a famous and revvered man got parkinsons from it prolly turned alot of people of boxing ,aswell as feeding the antagonists.

Exactly, Theone doesn't understand the question posed or he just stubbornly refuses to because the answer isn't definitely Ali.

Manny Pacquiao is a God to his fans in some third world areas. They love Manny, not Boxing. A guy in Zaire isn't and wasn't watching Boxing every week on his TV after Ali/Foreman.

ThatOne wrote:Native Africans have never been able to live without their restaurants, as we are all well aware. LOL. No one ever kept them from their mudhut, refused their right to piss in a ditch, os proudly take a beating from political forces for their troubles, either.

How they must have wept for Ali.

-Good Night Irene



Before I waste a lot of bandwidth on this argument I want to make sure I understand your argument. Is your argument that slavery and Jim Crow were relatively benign institutions and African Americans had no right to complain?

I would submit that slavery in America was beyond barbaric and that the Jim Crows laws in the post Civil War South were every bit as pernicious as the Nuremberg Laws in Nazi Germany but I think you know that.


I am also puzzled by the logic that leads one to argue that America's enslavement of Africans and their subsequent disenfranchisement and persecution after they were forcefully freed is mitigated by America's destruction of the American Indian or Native American.


That's akin to arguing that Japan's brutal occupation of the Philippines was mitigated by the Rape Of Nanking


Could you explain that to me?


Thank you.

Ugh. Let me say it in the simplest terms possible, since you completely missed the very simplye point.

Living in empoverished Africa = 100 times worse than racist America.

I understand the question. I also understand it's an amorphous or global one.

The question is what boxer made the most people interested in boxing or a fan of the sport?

That's an interesting question and people of good will can disagree

Where this conversation got hijacked was when posters argued that Muhammad Ali's popularity was owed more to the advent of mass media than the man himself. That's a point that's easily defeated. How many people know who the Klits are or the alphabet champions that preceded them.

The conversation also got hijacked when posters actually argued that the black man in America didn't suffer the most pernicious forms of racism, discrimination, and persecution or as if all that was mitigated by the fact that the Native American arguably suffered equally. I would probably argue they suffered as much or more but this isn't the appropriate forum.

ThatOne wrote: The question is what boxer made the most people interested in boxing or a fan of the sport?
.

Thats one way to read/see it , but i prefer to see it as what person be it boxer or not... how about the Marquee of Queensberry?
I would think the new rules helped make boxing ALOT more popular as it increased the pace and viewablility(is that even a real word? )of the sport?

deleted

We are getting way off track. Lets get back to the thread "Who Influenced Boxing the Most?"

A lot of this is apples and oranges. you can say that ali was the most well known; part of that is due to technology; part of it was because of him.

Jack Dempsey fought in front of some huge crowds. Also worth noting that boxing was the number 2 sport in the United States at the time. There was no real competition from basketball, football etc. Firpo-Willard fought in front of about 80,000 in a fight that was not even for the title. How many people would pay to see them in Ali's era or in modern times?

Sullivan kept a fledgling sport going. Without him, hard to say if the sport would have ever been a major sport. Dempsey drew a wider range of people. Without him boxing would still have been popular, but he helped took it to another level.

When Ali came a long, the sport was declining in popularity. TV ratings were down, networks were starting to cover boxing less. He gave it a shot in the arm. It would have been a minor/niche sport in the 1960s instead of the 1980s-1990s. Fighters who fought him became much better known. Fighters who fought on the undercard of an Ali fight became much better known. The sport was still on free TV regularly while he was still active.

The popularity of Sullivan, Dempsey, Ali and a few others influenced the popularity of boxing greatly. It's impossible to pick just one.

Ugh. Let me say it in the simplest terms possible, since you completely missed the very simplye point.

Living in empoverished Africa = 100 times worse than racist America.

-Good Night Irene



So, because there are poor people in Africa the United States was justified in invading sovereign nations. wresting the indigenous people by force, bringing them over in slave ships where millions of them died. And then refusing to give them rights that are supposed to be enjoyed by all Americans after a civil war was fought to ostensibly free them.

By that logic the United States would be justified in enslaving more than half the world.

Anyone know what the first boxing match was that was transmitted on radio overseas?
Which one was the first live radio boxing match transmitted around the World?

ThatOne wrote:deleted

Far and away your best post in this thread.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

ThatOne wrote:deleted

Far and away your best post in this thread.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices, but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence and fulfills the duty to express the results of his thought in clear form.


-Albert Einstein

It's a Boxing forum bro, Albert's thoughts are irrelevant to the discussion. Not to mention that statement in the context that you used it screams of bias.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's a Boxing forum bro, Albert's thoughts are irrelevant to the discussion. Not to mention that statement in the context that you used it screams of bias.

Einstein's thoughts are germaine to this discussion. You are casually dismissing my arguments not because they are lacking but because they don't conform to your prejudice or biases.

I have made several points in this thread. Please enlighten me to as the one you take issue with:

1) Slavery was a particularly despicable institution and the Jim Crowe laws of the post Civil War South were every bit as oppressive as the Nuremberg Laws in Nazi Germany.

2) Muhammad Ali despite his celebrity staus certainly felt the sting of second class citizenship or American apartheid especially as a young man. Muhuammad Ali was a scant thirteen yeasr old when fourteen year old Emmit Till was lynched for "looking" at a white woman.

3) Muhammad Ali because of his politics , his religion of which he has nearly two billion coreligionists , and his role in the black nationalist movement in an era when issues of race in America and abroad were coming to the forefront made him an icon not to just many whites but people of color throughout the world.

4) Whatever problems exist in parts of Africa and there are many I don't think many Africans wish they were brought over to America as slaves.


I think reasonable people can disagree on "Who influenced the popularity of boxing the most?"


PEACE
THAT ONE

ThatOne wrote:Ugh. Let me say it in the simplest terms possible, since you completely missed the very simplye point.

Living in empoverished Africa = 100 times worse than racist America.

-Good Night Irene



So, because there are poor people in Africa the United States was justified in invading sovereign nations. wresting the indigenous people by force, bringing them over in slave ships where millions of them died. And then refusing to give them rights that are supposed to be enjoyed by all Americans after a civil war was fought to ostensibly free them.

By that logic the United States would be justified in enslaving more than half the world.

You missed the point again. Don't ask me to spoonfeed it to you this time.

ThatOne wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's a Boxing forum bro, Albert's thoughts are irrelevant to the discussion. Not to mention that statement in the context that you used it screams of bias.

Einstein's thoughts are germaine to this discussion. You are casually dismissing my arguments not because they are lacking but because they don't conform to your prejudice or biases.

I have made several points in this thread. Please enlighten me to as the one you take issue with:

1) Slavery was a particularly despicable institution and the Jim Crowe laws of the post Civil War South were every bit as oppressive as the Nuremberg Laws in Nazi Germany.

2) Muhammad Ali despite his celebrity staus certainly felt the sting of second class citizenship or American apartheid especially as a young man. Muhuammad Ali was a scant thirteen yeasr old when fourteen year old Emmit Till was lynched for "looking" at a white woman.

3) Muhammad Ali because of his politics , his religion of which he has nearly two billion coreligionists , and his role in the black nationalist movement in an era when issues of race in America and abroad were coming to the forefront made him an icon not to just many whites but people of color throughout the world.

4) Whatever problems exist in parts of Africa and there are many I don't think many Africans wish they were brought over to America as slaves.


I think reasonable people can disagree on "Who influenced the popularity of boxing the most?"


PEACE
THAT ONE

Reasonable is what you are not. You're not much different than Granberry to be honest.

I would have liked to reply on the question set forth at the beginning of this thread but since a certain individual decided to ruin it by stating his terms of history on us, I rather not. It is a shame that angry individuals with an agenda descend upon us with their biased rhetoric which is uncalled for at many of these forums. There is always a proper time and place for such arguments. This thread was not one of them.

8)

CNorkusJr wrote:I would have liked to reply on the question set forth at the beginning of this thread but since a certain individual decided to ruin it by stating his terms of history on us, I rather not. It is a shame that angry individuals with an agenda descend upon us with their biased rhetoric which is uncalled for at many of these forums. There is always a proper time and place for such arguments. This thread was not one of them.

If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.

-John Stuart Mill

I would like to add I made my point forcefully and without rancor. And I have no "agenda". Opinions were solicited and I gave my opinion in response to that solicititation; nothing more and nothing less... As for "biased rhetoric" I have shown due deference to other posters and especially other fighters. How could I not being the son of a Golden Gloves fighter and the nephew of a professional one.

Reasonable is what you are not. You're not much different than Granberry to be honest.

-SaadOffThe Deck



My arguments are always buttressed by facts which can often be verified because I provide sources. The gentleman you compared me to either sources himself or uses sources that can never be verified. That's a huge difference. The gentleman you compared me to often uses invective, sarcasm and condescension ; ironically all of which have been used against me in this thread. When you point a finger at someone you have four fingers pointing back at yourself.

However I concede you do have a point, albeit different than the one you make. I exist because people like Granberry exist. And that existence is to refute his and their lies.

I have said ad infinitum and ad nauseum that reasonable people can disagree on "who influenced the popularity of boxing the most?" For some here that is not enough. If it is my fate to drink the hemlock on this topic than so be it.

As an aside, I think the so called sophisticates make the same mistake in underrating Ali as the hoi polloi make in overrating him and therein lies the confusion.


PEACE

THATONE

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

ThatOne wrote:Ugh. Let me say it in the simplest terms possible, since you completely missed the very simplye point.

Living in empoverished Africa = 100 times worse than racist America.

-Good Night Irene



So, because there are poor people in Africa the United States was justified in invading sovereign nations. wresting the indigenous people by force, bringing them over in slave ships where millions of them died. And then refusing to give them rights that are supposed to be enjoyed by all Americans after a civil war was fought to ostensibly free them.

By that logic the United States would be justified in enslaving more than half the world.

You missed the point again. Don't ask me to spoonfeed it to you this time.

Your point is that Africans in 1964 lived in such a state of degredation that they wouldn't be moved by tales of degredation in the United States. I disagree. The black nationalist movement and the struggle for civil rights in 1950s and 1960s America had much in common with the Pan African movement in Africa where Africans were shedding the yoke of European colonialism. The simllarities in their struggles is why black leaders such as Malcom X visited the continent three times; to establish a dialogue between Africa and the diaspora.

If I alienated anybody in this thread I regret it for that was not my truest intention. The older I get get the amount of people and opinions I am passionate about decreases but the few people and opinions I am passionate about that passion increases. In other words what I hold dear grows smaller but the passion for what I still holds dear grows larger.


Happy Easter
ThatOne