BoxRec

Danial,Grandpa told me those stories too "Ol School" of how men were men, and boxers were boxers in those days, and today's fighters just don't cut the mustard, and are fanciful and lack heart . Today it's about how often you defend,how many divisions you were champ and how many belts you collect. Not saying it's right, just saying that you and i can't really be claiming what the "bar" is for being great, and should concentrate on what we see with our own eye's.

For me, Martinez is as good as Hopkins ever was on ability, and imo a better version than Calzaghe with a better resume to prove it. So if Geale can claim a 3rd title in the division, being the strongest i've ever seen, he's earnt his right to be considered great! Stop reading and start watching.

crusader wrote:

DA GOOSE wrote:Danny Green. For the Paul Briggs disgrace unfortunately. But hopefully Geale can kick on and re-unify and maybe catch Martinez at the right time.

Green isn't well know internationally. If we are talking about who will be best remebered worldwide, it will probably be Vic or Katsidis; the former is very accomplished, fought on major networks several times, and may be inducted into the HOF, while the later was involved in many entertaining bouts with well known fighters, including a war with a legend in JMM.

Green would be known in Germany for his 2 fights against Beyer. But the US would only know him for beating Roy Jones and they will forget about that soon enough. Neither have any idea who Mundine is. Katsidis and Vic have it at the moment. But Geale is fast becoming known.

TrainInsane wrote:

crusader wrote:

DA GOOSE wrote:Danny Green. For the Paul Briggs disgrace unfortunately. But hopefully Geale can kick on and re-unify and maybe catch Martinez at the right time.

Green isn't well know internationally. If we are talking about who will be best remebered worldwide, it will probably be Vic or Katsidis; the former is very accomplished, fought on major networks several times, and may be inducted into the HOF, while the later was involved in many entertaining bouts with well known fighters, including a war with a legend in JMM.

Green would be known in Germany for his 2 fights against Beyer. But the US would only know him for beating Roy Jones and they will forget about that soon enough. Neither have any idea who Mundine is. Katsidis and Vic have it at the moment. But Geale is fast becoming known.

Canada, will always remember the monster punches that crippled Lucas, i used to talk a bit to a guy who was at the fight, he thought the punch's were defening. To say Green is only known here, is silly, he went to Germany with a 16 wins and 16 Kayo record, bashed the champion stupid, and news reports echoed around the world at the time of blatent robbery. I also got turned onto "the fight game" by the moderator Broncoe from Florida. He's got quite a few names on his record now. A fan non the less, i still think Green will be remembered in time to come, despite there being a better fighter in this country, still think a return with Wlod would be a good way to go out.

Daniel Jamson wrote:

Hounddawg wrote:

Daniel Jamson wrote:None of the fighters listed will be remembered as being anywhere near great.

Name a fighter in the last 20 years of any nation, that's gone to germany, fought a German and came home with 2 titles?????????

Please answer, i'm serious, find one fighter! and unified.

He believes as do i that he's got about another 30% more to go before he's a complete fighter, that will come through careful planning and brilliant match making. Geale seems as though he wants to be remembered in century's to come.

For now Geale is the front runner, Green second, Kats will always be remembered as a Gatti style fighter, a money's worth fighter....Dib has a long way to go and Darchinyan is already considered one of the 10 best flyweights ever, so his path is written, however Flyweights don't get the recognition that some deserve, so i stand strong with my opinion.

Mundine will be remembered here, will make personality apperances on 3rd string celebrity shows and will as always be his own biggest supporter. The history books will remember the 2 other fighters more fondly than Mundine, and he'll bark how he flogged both fighters....Geale is our future....the rest need to take note.

I don't tend to concentrate of Alphabet titles... there's plenty of fighters who have gone to Germany in the last twenty years and BEAT reigning world champs. Sturm is a decent fighter.. not really that much better than Murray.

Put it this way "mate"... I don't particularly rate Martinez and I wouldn't classify him as a 'great'... and yet he's quite clearly the best in the division... so for me Geale would have to get quite far past Martinez current achievements to be a great in my book.

Mate i didn't ask you to state, i asked you to name! 1 name will do it, remember he went twice, took the belt from the champ and unified against a German, in Germany! A name, not a guess!

Daniel Jamson wrote:None of the fighters listed will be remembered as being anywhere near great.

..and you won't be remembered by your family, you dill.

Daniel Jamson wrote:

TrainInsane wrote:
The thread is about Aussie fighters and amongst them who will be remembered more in 20 years. How many Aussie's have won legit titles in Germany? How many Aussie's have won legit titles in Germany twice?

The question in the poll says 'great'...

I was merely pointing out that on the world scale I don't believe any of them are on their way to that level... Only Vic will reach the IBHoF.

Is the IBHOF not a big enough measure of greatness for you? Or are you just trolling as someone has already suggested?

Canada, will always remember the monster punches that crippled Lucas, i used to talk a bit to a guy who was at the fight, he thought the punch's were defening. To say Green is only known here, is silly, he went to Germany with a 16 wins and 16 Kayo record, bashed the champion stupid, and news reports echoed around the world at the time of blatent robbery. I also got turned onto "the fight game" by the moderator Broncoe from Florida. He's got quite a few names on his record now. A fan non the less, i still think Green will be remembered in time to come, despite there being a better fighter in this country, still think a return with Wlod would be a good way to go out.

I'm a Canadian living in Canada, and very few casual boxing fans that I've met know who Green is. Hardcore boxing fans and industry insiders may know him, but they probably also know who Kevin Johnson is. That someone fights in a certain country or against an opponent from a certain country doesn't mean that they will be well remembered in that country; the bout usually must have a relatively large profile, which is often a product of the popularity of the boxers involved, and some memorable aspects. Green simply hasn't been involved in bouts like these that would make him well remembered by international audiences, at least compared to fighters like Vic and Katsidis.

For several years Vic and Katsidis have been televised on major networks in multiple countries, and they've been in memorable bouts against very well known fighters, such as Donaire, Arce, Casamayor, and Marquez, as well as fighters with a strong domestic followings, such as Yamanaka, Burns, and Mitchell. Green doesn't have this sort of profile, so I doubt that he will be remembered more worldwide than Vic and Katsidis will.

Daniel Jamson wrote:

Hounddawg wrote:

Daniel Jamson wrote:None of the fighters listed will be remembered as being anywhere near great.

Name a fighter in the last 20 years of any nation, that's gone to germany, fought a German and came home with 2 titles?????????

Please answer, i'm serious, find one fighter! and unified.

He believes as do i that he's got about another 30% more to go before he's a complete fighter, that will come through careful planning and brilliant match making. Geale seems as though he wants to be remembered in century's to come.

For now Geale is the front runner, Green second, Kats will always be remembered as a Gatti style fighter, a money's worth fighter....Dib has a long way to go and Darchinyan is already considered one of the 10 best flyweights ever, so his path is written, however Flyweights don't get the recognition that some deserve, so i stand strong with my opinion.

Mundine will be remembered here, will make personality apperances on 3rd string celebrity shows and will as always be his own biggest supporter. The history books will remember the 2 other fighters more fondly than Mundine, and he'll bark how he flogged both fighters....Geale is our future....the rest need to take note.

I don't tend to concentrate of Alphabet titles... there's plenty of fighters who have gone to Germany in the last twenty years and BEAT reigning world champs. Sturm is a decent fighter.. not really that much better than Murray.

Put it this way "mate"... I don't particularly rate Martinez and I wouldn't classify him as a 'great'... and yet he's quite clearly the best in the division... so for me Geale would have to get quite far past Martinez current achievements to be a great in my book.

What is the name of your book? "Professional Boxing for Dummies?"

Daniel Jamson wrote:Are you saying Martinez is a 'great' ?

He wouldn't last 3 rounds with Monzon, Hagler, RJJ, Robinson, Greg...

Would be comfortably beat by Bhop, LaMotta, Tiger, Ketchell, SRL and Hearns....

I actually don't think he would beat middleweight versions of Eubank, Mugabi and I would fancy Benvenuti to beat him.

Just don't rate the guy... very crude... terrible defense.. fairly small fighter for the weight... nearly got KO'ed by the truly awful Chavez Jnr.. a man who is so slow I actually believe my TV is broken every time I watch him.

Now.. If you think Martinez is better than Geale... then this equates to Geale being a million miles away from the label of 'great'.

IMO

The thread is about Aussie fighters and amongst them who will be remembered more in 20 years. Have you even offered an answer yet???

Daniel Jamson wrote:They'll all be remembered... the same way I remember Oleg Luzhny.. former Arsenal right back.. awful, awful footballer... but most football fans remember who he is.

You still haven't answered the question raised by the thread.

In 20 years time who will be remembered more?

All you need to do is pick one of the names. It's not that hard

Most will be remembered in Aus but that's about it. Internationally piople won't be talking about them other than in the contect of as 'one-offs'. ie in particular fights, not their careers in general

I love watching Katsidis, always in a great fight and when he blew Kevin Mitchell away at Upton park it was spectacular, not sure if he's gonna be remembered as a great fighter though a bit like Micky Ward.

Craigyid14 wrote:I love watching Katsidis, always in a great fight and when he blew Kevin Mitchell away at Upton park it was spectacular, not sure if he's gonna be remembered as a great fighter though a bit like Micky Ward.

There are similarities. Hope he ends up less banged up.

Daniel Jamson wrote:They'll all be remembered... the same way I remember Oleg Luzhny.. former Arsenal right back.. awful, awful footballer... but most football fans remember who he is.

Oh Gawd, another Pommy.

TrainInsane wrote:

Craigyid14 wrote:I love watching Katsidis, always in a great fight and when he blew Kevin Mitchell away at Upton park it was spectacular, not sure if he's gonna be remembered as a great fighter though a bit like Micky Ward.

There are similarities. Hope he ends up less banged up.

With the mask, his entertainment value and living in Pattaya the seedest part of Thailand he might get a film made about his life as well. I'd watch it.

crusader wrote:

Canada, will always remember the monster punches that crippled Lucas, i used to talk a bit to a guy who was at the fight, he thought the punch's were defening. To say Green is only known here, is silly, he went to Germany with a 16 wins and 16 Kayo record, bashed the champion stupid, and news reports echoed around the world at the time of blatent robbery. I also got turned onto "the fight game" by the moderator Broncoe from Florida. He's got quite a few names on his record now. A fan non the less, i still think Green will be remembered in time to come, despite there being a better fighter in this country, still think a return with Wlod would be a good way to go out.

I'm a Canadian living in Canada, and very few casual boxing fans that I've met know who Green is. Hardcore boxing fans and industry insiders may know him, but they probably also know who Kevin Johnson is. That someone fights in a certain country or against an opponent from a certain country doesn't mean that they will be well remembered in that country; the bout usually must have a relatively large profile, which is often a product of the popularity of the boxers involved, and some memorable aspects. Green simply hasn't been involved in bouts like these that would make him well remembered by international audiences, at least compared to fighters like Vic and Katsidis.

For several years Vic and Katsidis have been televised on major networks in multiple countries, and they've been in memorable bouts against very well known fighters, such as Donaire, Arce, Casamayor, and Marquez, as well as fighters with a strong domestic followings, such as Yamanaka, Burns, and Mitchell. Green doesn't have this sort of profile, so I doubt that he will be remembered more worldwide than Vic and Katsidis will.

Geale is still young mate, and Germany is as big as any country in boxing, so Lucas wasnt the most notable boxer at the time? Look ask most to name a soccer player besides Beckham, see what you find. If we talking about fraternity, notcasual...the days of the world knowing the Ali and Tysons are gone.

Daniel Jamson wrote:Are you saying Martinez is a 'great' ?

He wouldn't last 3 rounds with Monzon, Hagler, RJJ, Robinson, Greg...

Would be comfortably beat by Bhop, LaMotta, Tiger, Ketchell, SRL and Hearns....

I actually don't think he would beat middleweight versions of Eubank, Mugabi and I would fancy Benvenuti to beat him.

Just don't rate the guy... very crude... terrible defense.. fairly small fighter for the weight... nearly got KO'ed by the truly awful Chavez Jnr.. a man who is so slow I actually believe my TV is broken every time I watch him.

Now.. If you think Martinez is better than Geale... then this equates to Geale being a million miles away from the label of 'great'.

IMO

Mate as ive asked you to name someone and you can"t, im going to pretty much disregard all comments.
Mate we know boxing history as well, and i wrote a paragraph to you about how you would come back with the standard shit that most trolls do. I had a grandfather too, and i doubt you seen 20 percent of those people fight. Flash format in black and white is hardly a guide to your statements, when youve spent a bit of time watching some of those fighters mentioned above ill give credence. Until then I'll consider your visit here as a troll visit.

Hounddawg wrote:

crusader wrote:

Canada, will always remember the monster punches that crippled Lucas, i used to talk a bit to a guy who was at the fight, he thought the punch's were defening. To say Green is only known here, is silly, he went to Germany with a 16 wins and 16 Kayo record, bashed the champion stupid, and news reports echoed around the world at the time of blatent robbery. I also got turned onto "the fight game" by the moderator Broncoe from Florida. He's got quite a few names on his record now. A fan non the less, i still think Green will be remembered in time to come, despite there being a better fighter in this country, still think a return with Wlod would be a good way to go out.

I'm a Canadian living in Canada, and very few casual boxing fans that I've met know who Green is. Hardcore boxing fans and industry insiders may know him, but they probably also know who Kevin Johnson is. That someone fights in a certain country or against an opponent from a certain country doesn't mean that they will be well remembered in that country; the bout usually must have a relatively large profile, which is often a product of the popularity of the boxers involved, and some memorable aspects. Green simply hasn't been involved in bouts like these that would make him well remembered by international audiences, at least compared to fighters like Vic and Katsidis.

For several years Vic and Katsidis have been televised on major networks in multiple countries, and they've been in memorable bouts against very well known fighters, such as Donaire, Arce, Casamayor, and Marquez, as well as fighters with a strong domestic followings, such as Yamanaka, Burns, and Mitchell. Green doesn't have this sort of profile, so I doubt that he will be remembered more worldwide than Vic and Katsidis will.

Geale is still young mate, and Germany is as big as any country in boxing, so Lucas wasnt the most notable boxer at the time? Look ask most to name a soccer player besides Beckham, see what you find. If we talking about fraternity, notcasual...the days of the world knowing the Ali and Tysons are gone.

Germany is as big as any country in boxing?? Maybe with the Ukrainian heavyweights but certainly not in the middleweight division. Three British middles would beat Geale, and we don'teven know how good Saunders is yet......

If England is such a great place why did you move to New Zealand?

Daniel Jamson wrote:

Brute wrote:

Daniel Jamson wrote:They'll all be remembered... the same way I remember Oleg Luzhny.. former Arsenal right back.. awful, awful footballer... but most football fans remember who he is.

Oh Gawd, another Pommy.

It's a pommy website.

...and it has set up a British board for trolls like you.

Craigyid14 wrote:

Hounddawg wrote:
I'm a Canadian living in Canada, and very few casual boxing fans that I've met know who Green is. Hardcore boxing fans and industry insiders may know him, but they probably also know who Kevin Johnson is. That someone fights in a certain country or against an opponent from a certain country doesn't mean that they will be well remembered in that country; the bout usually must have a relatively large profile, which is often a product of the popularity of the boxers involved, and some memorable aspects. Green simply hasn't been involved in bouts like these that would make him well remembered by international audiences, at least compared to fighters like Vic and Katsidis.

For several years Vic and Katsidis have been televised on major networks in multiple countries, and they've been in memorable bouts against very well known fighters, such as Donaire, Arce, Casamayor, and Marquez, as well as fighters with a strong domestic followings, such as Yamanaka, Burns, and Mitchell. Green doesn't have this sort of profile, so I doubt that he will be remembered more worldwide than Vic and Katsidis will.

Geale is still young mate, and Germany is as big as any country in boxing, so Lucas wasnt the most notable boxer at the time? Look ask most to name a soccer player besides Beckham, see what you find. If we talking about fraternity, notcasual...the days of the world knowing the Ali and Tysons are gone.

Germany is as big as any country in boxing?? Maybe with the Ukrainian heavyweights but certainly not in the middleweight division. Three British middles would beat Geale, and we don'teven know how good Saunders is yet......[/quote]

It would take 3 British middleweights to beat Geale

Hounddawg wrote:

crusader wrote:

Canada, will always remember the monster punches that crippled Lucas, i used to talk a bit to a guy who was at the fight, he thought the punch's were defening. To say Green is only known here, is silly, he went to Germany with a 16 wins and 16 Kayo record, bashed the champion stupid, and news reports echoed around the world at the time of blatent robbery. I also got turned onto "the fight game" by the moderator Broncoe from Florida. He's got quite a few names on his record now. A fan non the less, i still think Green will be remembered in time to come, despite there being a better fighter in this country, still think a return with Wlod would be a good way to go out.

I'm a Canadian living in Canada, and very few casual boxing fans that I've met know who Green is. Hardcore boxing fans and industry insiders may know him, but they probably also know who Kevin Johnson is. That someone fights in a certain country or against an opponent from a certain country doesn't mean that they will be well remembered in that country; the bout usually must have a relatively large profile, which is often a product of the popularity of the boxers involved, and some memorable aspects. Green simply hasn't been involved in bouts like these that would make him well remembered by international audiences, at least compared to fighters like Vic and Katsidis.

For several years Vic and Katsidis have been televised on major networks in multiple countries, and they've been in memorable bouts against very well known fighters, such as Donaire, Arce, Casamayor, and Marquez, as well as fighters with a strong domestic followings, such as Yamanaka, Burns, and Mitchell. Green doesn't have this sort of profile, so I doubt that he will be remembered more worldwide than Vic and Katsidis will.

Geale is still young mate, and Germany is as big as any country in boxing, so Lucas wasnt the most notable boxer at the time? Look ask most to name a soccer player besides Beckham, see what you find. If we talking about fraternity, notcasual...the days of the world knowing the Ali and Tysons are gone.

People in multiple countries who attend to boxing only occasionally or not in much depth still know fighters like Donaire, Marquez, and many would've known of Casamayor, Arce, and Juan Diaz among others when they were active. These are or were world class fighters who received air times for years on major networks in the U.S. and airtime in other countries, such as Mexico, which has a large population with a high interest in boxing. The profiles of these fighters are much larger than those of fighters such as Lucas—who didn't even fight on major networks in his own country, which has a small population that generally has little interest boxing—and fighters like Beyer, whose profile was limited to one country without a very large population and media reach like the U.S has.

Vic and Kastsidis fought several times against high profile opponents on major networks in the U.S. and other countries, which exposed them to a far greater number of people than Green has been exposed to, and I don't see how their bouts were less memorable to a worldwide audience than Green's bouts were; for example, Katsidis's fight with JMM was considered one of the best fights of the year by many people. Green has been involved in bouts with fighters who have a solid domestic following, such as Beyer, but so have Vic and Katsidis (e.g.. Yamanaka, Burns, and Mitchell; Katsidis's bout with Earl also garnered fight of the year and round of the year nominations from international boxing publications).

In sum, Katsidis and Vic received international exposure more frequently than Green did and on larger scales, they fought more high profile fighters than Green did, and their bouts generally weren’t more forgettable to international audiences than Green’s were. Vic is also far more accomplished than Green and has a realistic chance of being inducted into the hall of fame, which could bring his name back into the spotlight several years from now.

Geale has done very well for himself, but his global profile is still very limited in my opinion. In fact, I’d say that within his division Martinez, JCC, Sturm, GGG, Macklin, and Murray are better known or as well known globally. They’ve all received airtime on major networks in the U.S. and other countries, most of them have fought internationally several time, and smost of them have fought high profile opponents, such as De La Hoya, Pavlik, and some of the higher profile names I mentioned above, such as JCC, Martinez, and Sturm. While Geale’s accomplishments are impressive, he needs more international exposure and more highe profile opponents if he’s to make it to the top of this list. Fights with Martinez, JCC, or GGG on HBO would go a long way in boosting in international profile, and by extension, the amount of people who will remember him years from now.

I agree with this section that you wrote in particular:

"In sum, Katsidis and Vic received international exposure more frequently than Green did and on larger scales, they fought more high profile fighters than Green did, and their bouts generally weren’t more forgettable to international audiences than Green’s were. Vic is also far more accomplished than Green and has a realistic chance of being inducted into the hall of fame, which could bring his name back into the spotlight several years from now. Geale has done very well for himself, but his global profile is still very limited in my opinion".

I think though Geale's profile is growing rapidly since he won the second title (even though he was stripped of it) and will continue to grow once he gets Mundine out of the way and gets back to fighting world name opponents.

I agree; Geale has a lot of time to build his profile and I expect him to do so over the next few years.

Daniel Jamson wrote:

crusader wrote:I agree; Geale has a lot of time to build his profile and I expect him to do so over the next few years.

He'll need to move to 168 then.... As middleweight is currently one of, if not THE weakest division in boxing.

So is heavyweight. But it doesn't stop the K's fighting to packed houses and being known worldwide, and they are full on boring to watch.