BoxRec

all we've been saying is that a more technical fighter than martinez, will be a different fight than martinez, and might be able to do better. it's martinez who is not a good technical fighter. burns beat one style of fighter. how do we know how he fares vs a different style?

christ, ricky burns was never pegged as a world class fighter so don't expect everyone to be completely won over after one fight, even if it was a great fight. he didn't beat world contenders (twice) and win elims (twice) like rendall munroe did - did he?

maybe he'll be a solid champ or maybe he had one great night. maybe he can adapt to all style or maybe he had martinez's number, in the right place at the right time.

it's not like we're trying to provoke BN. don't know how something as small as a boxrec opinion get can someone's back up, after your man's had the best night in scottish boxing in probably the post buchanan era. i can't recall alex arthur in as good a fight, or scott harrison delivering vs as tough an opponent.

super feather is not a hot division right now, not well regarded on the world scene, but britain has good fighters at world level (burns) down to english level (crolla). maybe we will see loads of great british fights around 130-pounds, which FW promised when cook & arthur were doing well.

any idea whom the next opponent is & when?

i'm looking forward to burns' next defense.

also looking forward to crolla - who i feel is an improved, changed fighter - vs morris and hopefully a rematch of his classic with sykes.

Jbacca,

Before you disappear up your own fundiment. If you are now retracting your claim that Burns doesn't have "technical skills and would be beat by a better technical fighter" but have replaced it with the equally assinine, "he'll be outclassed by a classier opponent" perhaps you could just explore that theory for us, firstly by explaining what the fkk you define "classier" as?

Is it someone who is from somewhere more fashionable than Scotland?

Or someone who has a bigger out of ring persona?

Perhaps someone who is on HBO?

Or maybe you just cannot counternance the idea that a wee fella from Scotland put together one of the most gutsy performances I've seen for a long time, stuck at it having been floored and beat the consensus #2 or 3 in the division without adding a caveat that he'll lose soon. Floyd Mayweather could lose soon. Lets forget the belts and imagine a utopia where there is one champion and then leading contenders, Ricky just lept from somewhere in the top 35 at the weight to thoroughly out work, out-dog and out-think the consensus #2 in the division placing him in the top #3 as a result. Baubles aside.

If classier, actually means, better. Than theoretically that leaves but one or two names and if that is the case, that is entirely natural, Burns could lose to them - as any fighter could lose to anyone.
I'm guilty of it too, but I think we're too quick to use terms like technique, class, footwork, gameplan etc when it would seem nobody has the first clue what they actually mean.

Mr Payne

I've read through my two posts a couple of times now, and I thought my point is quite clear.

I'm not retracting anything. I said I think Burns could be outclassed by a more technical boxer, and then in my second post I said I doubted his technical ability against the other top fighters in the division.

When I say classier, I mean a better boxer. Not someone who relies on his power alone like Martinez.

I've given Burns plenty of plaudits for his win, and will say once again, he did a fantastic job. I've not got a different agenda which you seem to be getting at. I've spoken up because I agree with what Autobahn is saying, and he's getting slack for his opinion. That's all.

I'm not saying you have an agenda jBacca. But you actually said you doubted his technical ability and he would lose to a better technical fighter, you were challenged then changed the terms of your caveat to focus on a classier boxer beating him.

If classier or technical just meant better. Does that mean anything? Ricky Burns would lose to someone who is better than him. Gee...thanks champ.

I don't mean to single you out but I sometimes wonder how frustrating it must be to read some forum cliches like "classier", "technical ability" etc when in truth there is no substance to the assertion.

And don't get me wrong I've done it but its the crucible for all the professionally engaged to then ask "have you ever boxed" because to me its just like boxing forum bingo.

Someone could be faster or hit harder, or be bigger or have greater reach, hell I'll even give contributors greater experience and the like - quantifiable facets - but I think all too easy we slip into cliche about technical skills, classier. And I'm not sure many contributors, not necessarily youjBacca don't really know what the fkk they're trying to say.

sorry but it's getting a bit technical and the debate seems to have gone due to picking over things.

clever autobarn.

well, there was a debate, ppl were getting upset...and now it's all evaporated

you've killed the drama, DP

....didn't mean to trample on the drama.

DavidPayne wrote:I'm not saying you have an agenda jBacca. But you actually said you doubted his technical ability and he would lose to a better technical fighter, you were challenged then changed the terms of your caveat to focus on a classier boxer beating him.

If classier or technical just meant better. Does that mean anything? Ricky Burns would lose to someone who is better than him. Gee...thanks champ.

I don't mean to single you out but I sometimes wonder how frustrating it must be to read some forum cliches like "classier", "technical ability" etc when in truth there is no substance to the assertion.

And don't get me wrong I've done it but its the crucible for all the professionally engaged to then ask "have you ever boxed" because to me its just like boxing forum bingo.

Someone could be faster or hit harder, or be bigger or have greater reach, hell I'll even give contributors greater experience and the like - quantifiable facets - but I think all too easy we slip into cliche about technical skills, classier. And I'm not sure many contributors, not necessarily youjBacca don't really know what the fkk they're trying to say.

Apologies for any confusion then, I thought technical and classier as the same thing, and I certainly didn't try to change the focus of my point.

Also, I don't doubt Burn's technical ability in general, he's a fine boxer, I'm just talking about him in relation to the top boys.

DavidPayne wrote: Is it someone who is from somewhere more fashionable than Scotland?

Mr Payne, how dare you!

jBacca wrote: Also, I don't doubt Burn's technical ability in general, he's a fine boxer, I'm just talking about him in relation to the top boys.

He beat the consensus #2 "top boy" so in relation to the "top boys" I think he's doing just fine.

Just out of interest, who out out of the other members of the division do you see as technically better than Burns?

DavidPayne wrote:....didn't mean to trample on the drama.

you're just sticking up for the scots.

as one of the characters in one of ian rankin's books says (might have been mid to late rebus or the recent the complaints), yorkshiremen, the english who are most like the scottish.

Yorkshire is a republic, something the Scots still crave. The fund-raising for the giant saw required to cut us adrift in the North Sea currently stands at £29.45p

GAV wrote:

jBacca wrote: Also, I don't doubt Burn's technical ability in general, he's a fine boxer, I'm just talking about him in relation to the top boys.

He beat the consensus #2 "top boy" so in relation to the "top boys" I think he's doing just fine.

Just out of interest, who out out of the other members of the division do you see as technically better than Burns?

Aye mate, but I've also said I don't class Martinez as the most skillful of boxers.

I think Uchiyama and Solis are lovely boxers, and Tajbert, although If I was picking a fight for Burns, I'd go with the latter. WBC on the line, hasn't got the most powerful of digs and I'm thinking Burns will have the height and reach advantage.

Autobarn wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:....didn't mean to trample on the drama.

you're just sticking up for the scots.

as one of the characters in one of ian rankin's books says (might have been mid to late rebus or the recent the complaints), yorkshiremen, the english who are most like the scottish.

Where can I donate to this very worthy cause?

jBacca wrote:

GAV wrote:

jBacca wrote: Also, I don't doubt Burn's technical ability in general, he's a fine boxer, I'm just talking about him in relation to the top boys.

He beat the consensus #2 "top boy" so in relation to the "top boys" I think he's doing just fine.

Just out of interest, who out out of the other members of the division do you see as technically better than Burns?

Aye mate, but I've also said I don't class Martinez as the most skillful of boxers.

I think Uchiyama and Solis are lovely boxers, and Tajbert, although If I was picking a fight for Burns, I'd go with the latter. WBC on the line, hasn't got the most powerful of digs and I'm thinking Burns will have the height and reach advantage.

I agree about Solis and Uchiyama. Uchiyama can be a bit wild and reckless at times though. Tajbert is definitely the weaker of the champions in my opinion. I definitely think the height and reach advantage that burns would enjoy could see him wrestle that title away from him in decent fashion.

In saying that, if you got himout of Japan and into Braehead, I believe Burns would beat Uchiyama as well.

How would you rate his chances against Fana or Baloyi?

jBacca wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:I'm not saying you have an agenda jBacca. But you actually said you doubted his technical ability and he would lose to a better technical fighter, you were challenged then changed the terms of your caveat to focus on a classier boxer beating him.

If classier or technical just meant better. Does that mean anything? Ricky Burns would lose to someone who is better than him. Gee...thanks champ.

I don't mean to single you out but I sometimes wonder how frustrating it must be to read some forum cliches like "classier", "technical ability" etc when in truth there is no substance to the assertion.

And don't get me wrong I've done it but its the crucible for all the professionally engaged to then ask "have you ever boxed" because to me its just like boxing forum bingo.

Someone could be faster or hit harder, or be bigger or have greater reach, hell I'll even give contributors greater experience and the like - quantifiable facets - but I think all too easy we slip into cliche about technical skills, classier. And I'm not sure many contributors, not necessarily youjBacca don't really know what the fkk they're trying to say.

Apologies for any confusion then, I thought technical and classier as the same thing, and I certainly didn't try to change the focus of my point.

Also, I don't doubt Burn's technical ability in general, he's a fine boxer, I'm just talking about him in relation to the top boys.

Read the rankings he is the top boy according to them

DavidPayne wrote:Yorkshire is a republic, something the Scots still crave. The fund-raising for the giant saw required to cut us adrift in the North Sea currently stands at £29.45p

burns reminded me of clinton woods' IBF title victories, the way he handled himself up close, smothering the opponent and using the shoulder to move his opponent around and get space to punch.

burns has that ingredient, that ruggedness, that yorkshire-style grit!

I don't think he's got a great deal to fear from the other guys in the top ten, stylewise I think Linares gives him the most problems.

Autobarn wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:Yorkshire is a republic, something the Scots still crave. The fund-raising for the giant saw required to cut us adrift in the North Sea currently stands at £29.45p

burns reminded me of clinton woods' IBF title victories, the way he handled himself up close, smothering the opponent and using the shoulder to move his opponent around and get space to punch.

burns has that ingredient, that ruggedness, that yorkshire-style grit!

Theres nothing English about Ricky,Born and Breed in BONNIE SCOTLAND LOL!