BoxRec

Cardiff lad the old-boys brigade has spoken you are clearly not worthy of an opinion.

Spud wrote:

Deserter wrote:

Spud wrote:

Cleverly - proven at what?

Spud, do you not think Cleverly's recent victory proved his ability to operate at a level there were previously question marks about?

Ahh some sense to the debate.

I thought Cleverley's fight against Murat was a bloody good win - it proves beyond doubt that he is a European Class operator.

Spud I have one serious question mate -

Saturday's Nathan Cleverly V Last Nights Tony Bellew. What is the outcome in your opinion?

Cardiff-Lad1 wrote:

yid14 wrote:Cardiff lad the old-boys brigade has spoken you are clearly not worthy of an opinion.

I shall pipe down in the future and keep my mouth shut.

Bloody keyboard warriors......

taffytoon wrote:

Spud wrote:

Deserter wrote: Spud, do you not think Cleverly's recent victory proved his ability to operate at a level there were previously question marks about?

Ahh some sense to the debate.

I thought Cleverley's fight against Murat was a bloody good win - it proves beyond doubt that he is a European Class operator.

Spud I have one serious question mate -

Saturday's Nathan Cleverly V Last Nights Tony Bellew. What is the outcome in your opinion?

Before you start asking Spud questions, do you mind answering my question after you lambasted my post?

He had a bad night. Why not reserve judgement until after his next fight, where we can see whether this was a one off or not. Boxers always fancy themselves against higher ranked fighters. It is called having ambition, without that, your a journeyman.

taffytoon wrote:

Spud wrote:

Deserter wrote: Spud, do you not think Cleverly's recent victory proved his ability to operate at a level there were previously question marks about?

Ahh some sense to the debate.

I thought Cleverley's fight against Murat was a bloody good win - it proves beyond doubt that he is a European Class operator.

Spud I have one serious question mate -

Saturday's Nathan Cleverly V Last Nights Tony Bellew. What is the outcome in your opinion?

Cleverly - clearly - no problems stating that - however what I am stating is Bellew is in the early part of his career - he has plenty to learn - I have seen enough of him to think he will be very good.

Let's not get carried away, Bellew looked bad but it's just one fight. Every fighter at every level has bad nights. The important thing is that he went 12 rounds and he learns from it. He will and he will know that he was looking for the big shot far too much, not doubling up on the jab and neglecting uppercuts and bodyshots.

To be fair, Bellew has been inactive and Ajisafe as slippery and awkward as he is would give alot of domestic light heavies problems.

Cleverly is on a different level and is a really special fighter imo but that doesn't mean Bellew won't get there won't day. It's just not Bellew's time yet and they are on completely different paths. Bellew although younger than Nathan is still a work in progress imo.

Deserter wrote:

Old bones Ian wrote:Its to early to compare, i remember that Cleverly didn't look great against Joey Vegas , at about the same time in his career as Bellew is at now.

If they met last week, then yes i'd say Cleverly would be a favourite, but its all about meeting when both are at their prime, and thats not yet for either.

That's a really good point. Too often we're judging fighters based on one performance, but as history has shown time and time again, any fighter can have an off night. In fact, you can argue that these are the times where they learn the most.
I'm using an extreme example just to make a point, but look at the way Benn responded to the Watson loss - if this forum had been up and running then you can guarantee there'd have been people rushing to their keyboards to declare him a fraud and that he was finished. Surely no-one can deny that?
For me, the most important thing in light of this performance is not the performance itself, but how Tony responds to it. That will be the true measure of his potential.

Very well said.

Cardiff-Lad1 wrote:

Neri wrote:Let's not get carried away, Bellew looked bad but it's just one fight. Every fighter at every level has bad nights. The important thing is that he went 12 rounds and he learns from it. He will and he will know that he was looking for the big shot far too much, not doubling up on the jab and neglecting uppercuts and bodyshots.

To be fair, Bellew has been inactive and Ajisafe as slippery and awkward as he is would give alot of domestic light heavies problems.

Cleverly is on a different level and is a really special fighter imo but that doesn't mean Bellew won't get there won't day. It's just not Bellew's time yet and they are on completely different paths. Bellew although younger than Nathan is still a work in progress imo.

Not to pick apart the post but Bellew is 4 years older than cleverly and i agree that one day they will meet, but Bellew needs to concentrate on getting there slowly and surely. Ajisafe has also been more inactive so IMO that evens it out.

I'm aware that Bellew is 4 years older but i'm still of the opinion that he is a work in progress, fighters progress at different rates, age is just a number although I'm not saying Cleverly won't improve. Bellew is a temperemental and emotional fighter and I think he sometimes lets this interfere with his gameplan as was shown last night where he regularly complained to the ref and was obviously frustrated with himself instead of settling down to his boxing skills and corner instructions. He will learn from this.

Fair point on the Ajisafe inactivity.

Cardiff-Lad1 wrote:

Neri wrote:

Cardiff-Lad1 wrote: Not to pick apart the post but Bellew is 4 years older than cleverly and i agree that one day they will meet, but Bellew needs to concentrate on getting there slowly and surely. Ajisafe has also been more inactive so IMO that evens it out.

I'm aware that Bellew is 4 years older but i'm still of the opinion that he is a work in progress, fighters progress at different rates, age is just a number although I'm not saying Cleverly won't improve. Bellew is a temperemental and emotional fighter and I think he sometimes lets this interfere with his gameplan as was shown last night where he regularly complained to the ref and was obviously frustrated with himself instead of settling down to his boxing skills and corner instructions. He will learn from this.

Fair point on the Ajisafe inactivity.

Sorry mate, my bad. but if you look at your original post you'll see why i mentioned that Bellew is older!

He is defo a work in progress though aned even though i'm a massive Clev fan, i will still be hoping that Bellew progresses through the ranks impressively.

Ah I see my error now! I mean't to say "although older". I was in the same year as Tony in school so shouldn't be slipping up on how old we are getting now!

I'm a big fan of Cleverly myself, I think he is the real deal and can go all the way.

jBacca wrote:

taffytoon wrote:

jBacca wrote: I have always said I believe Bomber would knock Clev sparko, but have never ruled out Clev on points.

I still think Tony could knock Clev out, as styles make fights, but if Clev fights like Ajisafe and Tony hasn't learnt from last night - Clev points.

What absolute tosh Y

Which bit and why? Give me something to work with.

Tony hit Bob with everything he had and Bob took them. Nathan has a better chin than Bob and would be 10 times faster, judging on Friday performance Nathan would have stopped Tony by the 5th Round

cleverly is clearly a level (maybe two) levels above tony bellew,and i honestly cant see this fight EVER being made.
does anyone honestly think bellew will get to world level. ( SMIGGA NEED NOT REPLY )

Bomber did look one dimensional in there at times, loading up far too much instead of throwing combinations to the body and head.

Old Bob was one tough fuc*er of mothers though. He tookm same real stick and stayed in there throwing back with purpose.

Ok, Bomber didn`t look the best, but that fight will do him more good than harm. He has been 12 rounds with a tough, cagey and awkward fighter and he ground out the win.

Forget about Cleverly for now, that`s a fight for down the road. An idea would be to get som U.S sparring under the belt and maybe take on a few American roughouses to get the tough rounds under the belt. No point banging people out in 2 rounds every time.

Maybe a fight againt Ovil McKenzie could be an idea?