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Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 26 Sep 2019, 09:48
by Onetimeonly
You should get off that analogy. Duran/Laing is more like Toney/thadzi. Even then it doesn't work, but the way you're using it is absurd
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 26 Sep 2019, 10:57
by Ambling Alp II
Controversial wrote: ↑25 Sep 2019, 17:40
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑25 Sep 2019, 15:39
These upsets do occasionally happen. When they do, they count against the fighter it happened to. You can't just blow them off. Consistency counts.
I’m not blowing it off but Toney proved himself to be the better fighter throughout his career, so he was more consistent. Tiberi had one good night which happens, I’m not so sure the rematch would have been the same that’s all I’m saying. Otherwise we are saying Tiberi was a better fighter than Toney which is like saying Laing was a better fighter than Duran.
Of course Toney was the better fighter. I don't think anyone would argue that.
And he probably would have won a rematch. (Legitimately.) That doesn't matter.
Fighters should be judged on what actually happened.
Some fighters have lost to fighters that they should not have. Some haven't. It has to count against the fighters who it happened to. Consistency has to count for something.
When you evaluate Toney's career, the Tiberi fight is one of many factors that has to be considered.
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 26 Sep 2019, 13:18
by Woldemar
Nobody
overestimates Toney
except himself.
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 26 Sep 2019, 13:20
by Seamus
He also didn't impress against Terry McGroom at Cruiserweight.
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 26 Sep 2019, 13:22
by Woldemar
Seamus wrote: ↑26 Sep 2019, 13:20
He also didn't impress against Terry McGroom at Cruiserweight.
Also against Drake Thadzi in Light Heavyweight.
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 26 Sep 2019, 14:17
by Controversial
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑26 Sep 2019, 10:57
Controversial wrote: ↑25 Sep 2019, 17:40
I’m not blowing it off but Toney proved himself to be the better fighter throughout his career, so he was more consistent. Tiberi had one good night which happens, I’m not so sure the rematch would have been the same that’s all I’m saying. Otherwise we are saying Tiberi was a better fighter than Toney which is like saying Laing was a better fighter than Duran.
Of course Toney was the better fighter. I don't think anyone would argue that.
And he probably would have won a rematch. (Legitimately.) That doesn't matter.
Fighters should be judged on what actually happened.
Some fighters have lost to fighters that they should not have. Some haven't. It has to count against the fighters who it happened to. Consistency has to count for something.
When you evaluate Toney's career, the Tiberi fight is one of many factors that has to be considered.
I’m not disagreeing with you,, a loss is a loss, or what should have been a loss. We can all make excuses, plenty of ATGs lost to fighters they shouldn’t have. And sometimes an underdog has one great fight and night in them, there are so many factors in play.
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 29 Sep 2019, 19:00
by pound per pound
Ambling Alp wrote: ↑15 Dec 2010, 14:43
He did have some great skills. He just did not always use them. I don't think he is "massively overrated". However he clearly is overrated by many.
This is how I see it. Top skills, but he seldom showed it.
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 30 Sep 2019, 08:37
by overhand_right
Middleweights no longer tend to move up to heavyweight, and I can't think of many middles from the last half century who would be able to stand up to hulking brutes like Sam Peter twice, Hasim Rahman twice, John Ruiz et al. To me that is evidence of some considerable skill, not to mention humongous, heavyweight-sized testicles dangling between the legs.
What a horrible, cuntish thread.
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 30 Sep 2019, 08:49
by gilgamesh
overhand_right wrote: ↑30 Sep 2019, 08:37
Middleweights no longer tend to move up to heavyweight, and I can't think of many middles from the last half century who would be able to stand up to hulking brutes like Sam Peter twice, Hasim Rahman twice, John Ruiz et al. To me that is evidence of some considerable skill, not to mention humongous, heavyweight-sized testicles dangling between the legs.
What a horrible, cuntish thread.
One of Toney's best assets in those later days when he was a Heavyweight especially, but well before that actually. I always loved how incredibly calm he was in the ring. Always ready to defend or counter, but he looks like he's just on a stroll in the park almost. Calm as can be.
That probably went a long way in allowing him to maintain his stamina in spite of obviously not being in the greatest of cardio shape.
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 02 Oct 2019, 01:30
by elmersalsa
I guess that with James Toney was that he thought that he didn't had to train that hard since he had a ton of skills. He was naturally gifted, especially fighting inside. Maybe he was saying in his mind "I fight 5 or 6 times a year. That's all the training that I need. I don't need to be in the gym hard for every fight. My stamina is in the fights that I make yearly".
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 03 Oct 2019, 11:49
by tennessee
overhand_right wrote: ↑30 Sep 2019, 08:37
Middleweights no longer tend to move up to heavyweight, and I can't think of many middles from the last half century who would be able to stand up to hulking brutes like Sam Peter twice, Hasim Rahman twice, John Ruiz et al. To me that is evidence of some considerable skill, not to mention humongous, heavyweight-sized testicles dangling between the legs.
What a horrible, cuntish thread.
Spot on. If he would of had the motivation of pac-man, he would have ruled the boxing universe
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 03 Oct 2019, 12:59
by Steveh583
Great fighter but prob a tad overrated
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 03 Oct 2019, 14:43
by BoxBuzz
Fake thread.
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 03 Oct 2019, 15:29
by oogiebe
BoxBuzz wrote: ↑03 Oct 2019, 14:43Fake thread.
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 03 Oct 2019, 15:35
by margaret thatcher
Impeach this thread
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 03 Oct 2019, 15:49
by oogiebe
I want an inquiry!
Re: James Toney = Massively Overrated.
Posted: 03 Oct 2019, 17:55
by Onetimeonly
tennessee wrote: ↑03 Oct 2019, 11:49
overhand_right wrote: ↑30 Sep 2019, 08:37
Middleweights no longer tend to move up to heavyweight, and I can't think of many middles from the last half century who would be able to stand up to hulking brutes like Sam Peter twice, Hasim Rahman twice, John Ruiz et al. To me that is evidence of some considerable skill, not to mention humongous, heavyweight-sized testicles dangling between the legs.
What a horrible, cuntish thread.
Spot on. If he would of had the motivation of pac-man, he would have ruled the boxing universe
He had plenty of motivation, he had weaknesses too.