BoxRec

Holyfield was miles above anyone Klitschko ever beat.
Bowe certainly would not have lost to that version of Lewis that Klitschko did.
Bowe never would have lost to Chris Byrd.

Who did Klitscho ever beat that Bowe would not have?

keithmoonhangover wrote:There are a lot people saying that Bowe fought beat better fighters. Correction, he beat ONE better fighter - Holyfield. I thought he lost to Tubbs and would have lost to Golota had it not been for the DQ's. Jesse Ferguson and Michael Dokes? Give me a break. Back to back farces, what a legacy to be proud of.

All the Bowe lovers admit that Bowe ducked Lewis, but don't knock his rating because of it. Lewis would have stopped him inside four rounds. Bowe was a disgrace.

A disgrace? The word disgrace should be used a lot more conservatively than to be applied to a boxer of Bowe's caliber and achievement. I would use the word to describe Mark Bailey, for instance, but definitely not Riddick Bowe. The guy was in some vicious wars and sacrificed a lot of himself in the ring. I would agree that he could have possibly achieved more in his career, but as it stands, he still accomplished more than 99.99+ percent of fighters. If you want to make an argument people will take seriously, why make such an overblown statement?

1. Lewis
2. Holmes
3. Holyfield
4. Tyson
5. Bowe
6. W Klitschko
7. V Klitschko
8. Witherspoon
9. Spinks
10. Weaver

chucktaylor wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:There are a lot people saying that Bowe fought beat better fighters. Correction, he beat ONE better fighter - Holyfield. I thought he lost to Tubbs and would have lost to Golota had it not been for the DQ's. Jesse Ferguson and Michael Dokes? Give me a break. Back to back farces, what a legacy to be proud of.

All the Bowe lovers admit that Bowe ducked Lewis, but don't knock his rating because of it. Lewis would have stopped him inside four rounds. Bowe was a disgrace.

A disgrace? The word disgrace should be used a lot more conservatively than to be applied to a boxer of Bowe's caliber and achievement. I would use the word to describe Mark Bailey, for instance, but definitely not Riddick Bowe. The guy was in some vicious wars and sacrificed a lot of himself in the ring. I would agree that he could have possibly achieved more in his career, but as it stands, he still accomplished more than 99.99+ percent of fighters. If you want to make an argument people will take seriously, why make such an overblown statement?

I said it because he refused to fight Lennox Lewis. Only a coward runs so blatantly from a fight.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

chucktaylor wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:There are a lot people saying that Bowe fought beat better fighters. Correction, he beat ONE better fighter - Holyfield. I thought he lost to Tubbs and would have lost to Golota had it not been for the DQ's. Jesse Ferguson and Michael Dokes? Give me a break. Back to back farces, what a legacy to be proud of.

All the Bowe lovers admit that Bowe ducked Lewis, but don't knock his rating because of it. Lewis would have stopped him inside four rounds. Bowe was a disgrace.

A disgrace? The word disgrace should be used a lot more conservatively than to be applied to a boxer of Bowe's caliber and achievement. I would use the word to describe Mark Bailey, for instance, but definitely not Riddick Bowe. The guy was in some vicious wars and sacrificed a lot of himself in the ring. I would agree that he could have possibly achieved more in his career, but as it stands, he still accomplished more than 99.99+ percent of fighters. If you want to make an argument people will take seriously, why make such an overblown statement?

I said it because he refused to fight Lennox Lewis. Only a coward runs so blatantly from a fight.

I agree with you about Bowe ducking Lewis and that was a farse but you are selling Bowe very short because of that alot of fighters duck som oponents, Foreman ducked Shavers, Patterson ducked alot of guys and them two are highly thought of despite that.

Thunder and Lightning wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

chucktaylor wrote: A disgrace? The word disgrace should be used a lot more conservatively than to be applied to a boxer of Bowe's caliber and achievement. I would use the word to describe Mark Bailey, for instance, but definitely not Riddick Bowe. The guy was in some vicious wars and sacrificed a lot of himself in the ring. I would agree that he could have possibly achieved more in his career, but as it stands, he still accomplished more than 99.99+ percent of fighters. If you want to make an argument people will take seriously, why make such an overblown statement?

I said it because he refused to fight Lennox Lewis. Only a coward runs so blatantly from a fight.

I agree with you about Bowe ducking Lewis and that was a farse but you are selling Bowe very short because of that alot of fighters duck som oponents, Foreman ducked Shavers, Patterson ducked alot of guys and them two are highly thought of despite that.

Good point, but Bowe defended his title against Ferguson and Dokes. Which makes his reign as champion a farse.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Thunder and Lightning wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: I said it because he refused to fight Lennox Lewis. Only a coward runs so blatantly from a fight.

I agree with you about Bowe ducking Lewis and that was a farse but you are selling Bowe very short because of that alot of fighters duck som oponents, Foreman ducked Shavers, Patterson ducked alot of guys and them two are highly thought of despite that.

Good point, but Bowe defended his title against Ferguson and Dokes. Which makes his reign as champion a farse.

Yes indeed not a good resumee for a champion but again Patterson defended against guys like Brian London, Pete Rademacher and Tommy Jackson, before Johansson and Liston Patterson avoided all of the top guys. (I'm a fan of Patterson so don't think that i am knocking him, just trying to put it into perspective)

Bowe isn't the best of all time to me he isn't top 15 but you can't judge him just on who he faced in his title reign either.

It's unfortunate he didn't have monsters like Albert Sosnowski, Danny Williams or Cris Arreola to battle. Then maybe he would have the respect of this bumbling idiot.

All you can do when someone questions Bowe's challengers while championing Vitali's top 10 opposition is

Agreed that Bowe isn't top 15. Then again, he doesn't have to be to rate above both of the Klitschko's. He beat Evander Holyfield twice, that's the end of that debate.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's unfortunate he didn't have monsters like Albert Sosnowski, Danny Williams or Cris Arreola to battle. Then maybe he would have the respect of this bumbling idiot.

All you can do when someone questions Bowe's challengers while championing Vitali's top 10 opposition is

Agreed that Bowe isn't top 15. Then again, he doesn't have to be to rate above both of the Klitschko's. He beat Evander Holyfield twice, that's the end of that debate.

He lost to Tony Tubbs.

Vitali had the guts to get in the ring with Lennox Lewis.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's unfortunate he didn't have monsters like Albert Sosnowski, Danny Williams or Cris Arreola to battle. Then maybe he would have the respect of this bumbling idiot.

All you can do when someone questions Bowe's challengers while championing Vitali's top 10 opposition is

Agreed that Bowe isn't top 15. Then again, he doesn't have to be to rate above both of the Klitschko's. He beat Evander Holyfield twice, that's the end of that debate.

He lost to Tony Tubbs.

Vitali had the guts to get in the ring with Lennox Lewis.

Vitali also had the guts to quit against Byrd.

Idisagree wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's unfortunate he didn't have monsters like Albert Sosnowski, Danny Williams or Cris Arreola to battle. Then maybe he would have the respect of this bumbling idiot.

All you can do when someone questions Bowe's challengers while championing Vitali's top 10 opposition is

Agreed that Bowe isn't top 15. Then again, he doesn't have to be to rate above both of the Klitschko's. He beat Evander Holyfield twice, that's the end of that debate.

He lost to Tony Tubbs.

Vitali had the guts to get in the ring with Lennox Lewis.

Vitali also had the guts to quit against Byrd.

With a genuine injury. So what? Duran quit for no reason other than he couldn't lay a punch on Leonard.

BarryWashington wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's unfortunate he didn't have monsters like Albert Sosnowski, Danny Williams or Cris Arreola to battle. Then maybe he would have the respect of this bumbling idiot.

All you can do when someone questions Bowe's challengers while championing Vitali's top 10 opposition is

Agreed that Bowe isn't top 15. Then again, he doesn't have to be to rate above both of the Klitschko's. He beat Evander Holyfield twice, that's the end of that debate.

He lost to Tony Tubbs.

Vitali had the guts to get in the ring with Lennox Lewis.

Nah, that's the "let me be opposite"/independent/thought-provoking band-wagon bull shit school of thought that people use w/so many fights (it's a good thing I don't just go off the word of some of online posters, I'd look like a very incomptentant boxing fan).

Tubbs looked awesome in that fight, but, no way he won.

Have you even watched that fight? I have it on VHS along with most of Bowe's fights and watched it again last week, Tubbs won it.

Bowe also lost to Buster Mathis Jnr, which I have on tape.

And would have lost in both the Andrew Golota fights - both of which I also have on VHS - if Golota could have kept his punches up.

And it goes without saying that if he had had the guts to get in the ring with Lewis, it would have been the same result as the Olympics - which, again I have in tape.

I've been a boxing fan for longer than a lot of the posters on here have been alive. So, I'm not just jumping on the bandwagon.

It's strange how Bowe managed to go his whole career and not give Tubbs a rematch, not fight Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Michael Moorer, Razor Ruddock or David Tua. But he managed to fight Jesse Ferguson and Michael Dokes. I guess they all ducked him.

BarryWashington wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's unfortunate he didn't have monsters like Albert Sosnowski, Danny Williams or Cris Arreola to battle. Then maybe he would have the respect of this bumbling idiot.

All you can do when someone questions Bowe's challengers while championing Vitali's top 10 opposition is

Agreed that Bowe isn't top 15. Then again, he doesn't have to be to rate above both of the Klitschko's. He beat Evander Holyfield twice, that's the end of that debate.

He lost to Tony Tubbs.

Vitali had the guts to get in the ring with Lennox Lewis.

Nah, that's the "let me be opposite"/independent/thought-provoking band-wagon bull shit school of thought that people use w/so many fights (it's a good thing I don't just go off the word of some of online posters, I'd look like a very incomptentant boxing fan).

Tubbs looked awesome in that fight, but, no way he won.

Bowe won that fight clearly, though it was close.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

BarryWashington wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: He lost to Tony Tubbs.

Vitali had the guts to get in the ring with Lennox Lewis.

Nah, that's the "let me be opposite"/independent/thought-provoking band-wagon bull shit school of thought that people use w/so many fights (it's a good thing I don't just go off the word of some of online posters, I'd look like a very incomptentant boxing fan).

Tubbs looked awesome in that fight, but, no way he won.

Have you even watched that fight? I have it on VHS along with most of Bowe's fights and watched it again last week, Tubbs won it.

Bowe also lost to Buster Mathis Jnr, which I have on tape.

And would have lost in both the Andrew Golota fights - both of which I also have on VHS - if Golota could have kept his punches up.

And it goes without saying that if he had had the guts to get in the ring with Lewis, it would have been the same result as the Olympics - which, again I have in tape.

I've been a boxing fan for longer than a lot of the posters on here have been alive. So, I'm not just jumping on the bandwagon.

It's strange how Bowe managed to go his whole career and not give Tubbs a rematch, not fight Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Michael Moorer, Razor Ruddock or David Tua. But he managed to fight Jesse Ferguson and Michael Dokes. I guess they all ducked him.

You are right in saying that Bowe don't have the strongest resumee but he did beat Holyfiled twice and was a real world champ something that Vitali will never be because of his brother.
Even though Bowe didn't face those guys and that does make a sad mark on his legacy his accomplishments are greater than Vitalis.
In a fight between them I can like you see Vitali beat Bowe like Golota did but prime vs prime if Bowe had the right mind for it, I do think Bowe has the edge but you can't say Vitali doesn't stand a chanse but sadly Vitali like Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson have ended up in a very weak era something that hurts his legacy too because people can always point to his oponents ans say they were no good but you can't deny that having a 2-1 up on Holyfield isn't a good accomplishment.

Thunder and Lightning wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

BarryWashington wrote: Nah, that's the "let me be opposite"/independent/thought-provoking band-wagon bull shit school of thought that people use w/so many fights (it's a good thing I don't just go off the word of some of online posters, I'd look like a very incomptentant boxing fan).

Tubbs looked awesome in that fight, but, no way he won.

Have you even watched that fight? I have it on VHS along with most of Bowe's fights and watched it again last week, Tubbs won it.

Bowe also lost to Buster Mathis Jnr, which I have on tape.

And would have lost in both the Andrew Golota fights - both of which I also have on VHS - if Golota could have kept his punches up.

And it goes without saying that if he had had the guts to get in the ring with Lewis, it would have been the same result as the Olympics - which, again I have in tape.

I've been a boxing fan for longer than a lot of the posters on here have been alive. So, I'm not just jumping on the bandwagon.

It's strange how Bowe managed to go his whole career and not give Tubbs a rematch, not fight Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Michael Moorer, Razor Ruddock or David Tua. But he managed to fight Jesse Ferguson and Michael Dokes. I guess they all ducked him.

You are right in saying that Bowe don't have the strongest resumee but he did beat Holyfiled twice and was a real world champ something that Vitali will never be because of his brother.
Even though Bowe didn't face those guys and that does make a sad mark on his legacy his accomplishments are greater than Vitalis.
In a fight between them I can like you see Vitali beat Bowe like Golota did but prime vs prime if Bowe had the right mind for it, I do think Bowe has the edge but you can't say Vitali doesn't stand a chanse but sadly Vitali like Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson have ended up in a very weak era something that hurts his legacy too because people can always point to his oponents ans say they were no good but you can't deny that having a 2-1 up on Holyfield isn't a good accomplishment.

I agree 100% that it is a good accomplishment. I do think Tyson crushing Holmes and Spinks is more impressive.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

BarryWashington wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: He lost to Tony Tubbs.

Vitali had the guts to get in the ring with Lennox Lewis.

Nah, that's the "let me be opposite"/independent/thought-provoking band-wagon bull shit school of thought that people use w/so many fights (it's a good thing I don't just go off the word of some of online posters, I'd look like a very incomptentant boxing fan).

Tubbs looked awesome in that fight, but, no way he won.

Have you even watched that fight? I have it on VHS along with most of Bowe's fights and watched it again last week, Tubbs won it.

Bowe also lost to Buster Mathis Jnr, which I have on tape.

And would have lost in both the Andrew Golota fights - both of which I also have on VHS - if Golota could have kept his punches up.

And it goes without saying that if he had had the guts to get in the ring with Lewis, it would have been the same result as the Olympics - which, again I have in tape.

I've been a boxing fan for longer than a lot of the posters on here have been alive. So, I'm not just jumping on the bandwagon.

It's strange how Bowe managed to go his whole career and not give Tubbs a rematch, not fight Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Michael Moorer, Razor Ruddock or David Tua. But he managed to fight Jesse Ferguson and Michael Dokes. I guess they all ducked him.

Tua!? Are you joking? Bowe retired in 1996...Tua's repute was effectively zero at the time.

If you had any idea what you were watching, you'd know the Olympic stoppage was appalling --- needless to say, such fights mean nothing in the pro world.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

BarryWashington wrote: Nah, that's the "let me be opposite"/independent/thought-provoking band-wagon bull shit school of thought that people use w/so many fights (it's a good thing I don't just go off the word of some of online posters, I'd look like a very incomptentant boxing fan).

Tubbs looked awesome in that fight, but, no way he won.

Have you even watched that fight? I have it on VHS along with most of Bowe's fights and watched it again last week, Tubbs won it.

Bowe also lost to Buster Mathis Jnr, which I have on tape.

And would have lost in both the Andrew Golota fights - both of which I also have on VHS - if Golota could have kept his punches up.

And it goes without saying that if he had had the guts to get in the ring with Lewis, it would have been the same result as the Olympics - which, again I have in tape.

I've been a boxing fan for longer than a lot of the posters on here have been alive. So, I'm not just jumping on the bandwagon.

It's strange how Bowe managed to go his whole career and not give Tubbs a rematch, not fight Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Michael Moorer, Razor Ruddock or David Tua. But he managed to fight Jesse Ferguson and Michael Dokes. I guess they all ducked him.

Tua!? Are you joking? Bowe retired in 1996...Tua's repute was effectively zero at the time.

If you had any idea what you were watching, you'd know the Olympic stoppage was appalling --- needless to say, such fights mean nothing in the pro world.

Tua was 25- 0 at the end of '96 and had knocked out John Ruiz in 1 round.

"If you had any idea what you were watching"? Stop kissing Bowe's arse and admit that Lewis beat him fair and square in the olympics and would have done the same in the pros.

I won't, "admit," to either, LOL. It is warped to suggest Lewis beat Bowe legitimately in the Ams, & pure subjective opinion to suggest he'd do it as pros (& not an opinion I agree with, especially if we're talking circa-1993).

At least Bowe never retired because he feared Hasim Rahman.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:At least Bowe never retired because he feared Hasim Rahman.

Great KO though, that. Rahman's head fell just in position to be wearing the Don King, "Crown" logo

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:At least Bowe never retired because he feared Hasim Rahman.

Great KO though, that. Rahman's head fell just in position to be wearing the Don King, "Crown" logo

Both sides of those fights were great KO's. Moon or Mugabi, whatever you want to call him likes to launch propaganda & hyperbole to support his bias. But Vitali never stepped up to fight rahman. He retired after pulling out 3 times and still hasn't fought him.

Like everything else between Bowe & Vitali, ducking Lewis > ducking Rockhead.

It should be pointed out that Bowe was only a pro for two years when he beat Tubbs. That was actaully a pretty good win for a fighter with his experience.

Yes Lewis beat Bowe in the amatuers. And Duane Bobick beat Larry Holmes, Buster Mathis beat Joe Frazier, Max Marekl beat Joe Louis and so on. That should have no bearing on rating Bowe.
Bowe certainly would have beaten the obese Lennox Lewis that Klitschko lost to.

It's easy to say that Bowe ducked other guys but we don't really know that. I suspect Moorer and Tyson did not want any part of him.

Yes Bowe should have fought Lewis. He should not be rated as high as Lewis.
However he did beat Holyfield when Holyfield was a this best. He never lost to anyone else.
He should be judged on what he did, not on his potential or if people like him or not.
Rating Bowe in the Top 15 is probably stretching it a bit. Top 20 is not.

All Klitschko had to do was stand there for 3 more rounds again Byrd. A great fighter does not quit in that situation. Bowe would not have.

No way is Klitschko is Top 50 all-time. Who has Klitschko beat that is remotely close to being in the Top 100 all-time?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:At least Bowe never retired because he feared Hasim Rahman.

Great KO though, that. Rahman's head fell just in position to be wearing the Don King, "Crown" logo

Both sides of those fights were great KO's. Moon or Mugabi, whatever you want to call him likes to launch propaganda & hyperbole to support his bias. But Vitali never stepped up to fight rahman. He retired after pulling out 3 times and still hasn't fought him.

Like everything else between Bowe & Vitali, ducking Lewis > ducking Rockhead.

Moon, Mugabi, call me whatever you want mate. Suggesting that Vitali avoided Rahman, MIGHT be correct. Bowe avoiding Lewis is a FACT.

BUMP.

I am starting a Heavyweight tournament of 32 boxers...
8 boxers have qualified from this era.

They are:

Tyson
Lewis
Holmes
Holyfield
Bowe
V Klitchsko
W Klitchsko
Witherspoon