BoxRec

bengulnaci1 wrote:
All this should be available for the masses

Why?

Boxers, promoters, cornermen, TV stations have a living to make- these shows cost a lot ot put on- they are not doing it as charity for public entertainment. You don't have a "right" to watch their events.

Streams are just stealing.

Whilst I agree with some anti-PPV sentiments, I don't think streams are the answer. Far from it.

What you are basically saying is that you do want to watch it, but won't pay the asking price so are getting it illegally. Not cool.

bengulnaci1 wrote:
Blood sucking promoters are 'gently' moved on.

To be repalced by...

who exactly?

lovely promoters , putting on boxing shows at their own expence for the good of the "masses"?

If there comes a time when the promoters can't make money (because eg people nick content on free streams) then thats it, the sport is over.

whicker wrote:

bengulnaci1 wrote:
All this should be available for the masses

Why?

Boxers, promoters, cornermen, TV stations have a living to make- these shows cost a lot ot put on- they are not doing it as charity for public entertainment. You don't have a "right" to watch their events.

Streams are just stealing.

Whilst I agree with some anti-PPV sentiments, I don't think streams are the answer. Far from it.

What you are basically saying is that you do want to watch it, but won't pay the asking price so are getting it illegally. Not cool.

So your happy to ripped off by SKY and these Promoters?

What they are doing is legal but it doesn't mean its right. What I will do may not be legally 'right' but morally its the right thing. We are in a tough recession, ppl like Barney whatever, the SKY Sports Head and FW are not short of money but ppl like me, who have a family, do not need to be patronised and told, that if I want watch a British title fight, in addition to the sub fee, I have to pay 15 quiid on top.

They couldn't give a s**t about the Sports future, I can buy every PPV but it doesn't matter because when its stops making SKY and the promoters money, they'll just dump it. Where will my loyalty have got me?

whicker wrote:

bengulnaci1 wrote:
All this should be available for the masses

Why?

Boxers, promoters, cornermen, TV stations have a living to make- these shows cost a lot ot put on- they are not doing it as charity for public entertainment. You don't have a "right" to watch their events.

Streams are just stealing.

Whilst I agree with some anti-PPV sentiments, I don't think streams are the answer. Far from it.

What you are basically saying is that you do want to watch it, but won't pay the asking price so are getting it illegally. Not cool.

Boxing is a sport for the masses, Why shouldn't it be available to us all? Terrestial TV has shown that there is big, big boxing audience out there. so why not look to take advantage of that?

Promoters, simply are asking for alot of money from terrestial TV, who simply are not that bothered at the moment. That will change, in time, it always does, but for now SKY pay the most and then in turn batter us over the head to meet the costs and put the profit in their pockets.

Well sorry for not playing ball. I won't pay my hard earned money to some greedy suits when, I can watch it for free, in the comfort of my own home and spend that money on something for my family.

And thats what I will do, I don't have a guilty conscience about it, not at all. SKY should be ashamed about it, really, but do they care? Of course not

chrisfinch wrote:Sky, who presumably view it as any amount of people paying £15 is better than none.
:

^^ And thats the reason why.

Boxing won't die, but its decreasing popularity, here in the UK, is not down to me and others of a similiar mindset not paying for PPV events.

whicker wrote:

bengulnaci1 wrote:
Blood sucking promoters are 'gently' moved on.

To be repalced by...

who exactly?

lovely promoters , putting on boxing shows at their own expence for the good of the "masses"?

If there comes a time when the promoters can't make money (because eg people nick content on free streams) then thats it, the sport is over.

That's like saying that music will be over because of illegal downloads, not the case at all. The industry is in most cases refocusing their attention to live shows with some big artists signing deals with tour promotors rather than traditional record labels. Singles and albums are now sold a lot differently than they once were. The industry in the most part is moving with the times. Boxing promoters must become more inventive to ensure they (and as a result the sport) improves goodwill among fans, who in turn repay them financially.

In my opinion, its another reason why Fury-Chisora should have been allowed to go ahead in Spain. Something different doesn't necessarily mean something bad.

Also, in many cases people (including myself) have shelled out PPV which haven't looked great value but the economy has changed in the past two years and it needs to be reflected in the value offered to boxing fans. I'm not against PPV full stop, its merely the lack of value. Magnificent 7, despite protestations by some, was actually well worth PPV status for me. Some other shows have led to me drawing a line in the sand (namely Haye Harrison). I see myself as a fan, but I just don't see how it can be justified to charge a third of a price of a ticket to watch it in your living room.

It's big PPV money that has made this fight happen now otherwise they'd both be matched up with easier touches for a few more fights.

Boxing will never be a regular on terrestrial tv anymore, they are scaling back their budgets and wont blow it on a fringe sport.

bengulnaci1 wrote: Boxing is a sport for the masses, Why shouldn't it be available to us all?

At the end of the day, it's a business, not a charity.
sure, if you don't like the price, then don't pay it.

But I disagree with the Robin Hood attitude that "They are greedy, so it's ok to nick it."

MachoMan09 wrote: It is not illegal to watch a stream.

It's illegal to stream an event that they don't have copyright for.

Fans of the sport should take the lead by not watching them.

As I say, I do think PPV is a rip off, but I don't think the sollution is just to watch it on the dodgy streams.

>>Boxing is a sport for the masses

No it isn't, it's a minority sport these days.

MachoMan09 wrote:

orbtastic wrote:>>Boxing is a sport for the masses

No it isn't, it's a minority sport these days.

Any why is that?

We both know why it is. Blame a certain Mr FW taking his entire stable to SKY and then doing the first PPV all those years ago.

MachoMan09 wrote:
If the more people watched on streams rather than paid for PPV, the broadcasters would feel the pressure to come up with a more attractive alternative.

Or they might say "fornicate it, it's not worth it, we are not making money, lets promote something else."

Tiddywinks, anyone?

Seriously, whatever people may feel about PPVs, watching boxing on streams isn't the way to go.

whicker wrote:

MachoMan09 wrote:
If the more people watched on streams rather than paid for PPV, the broadcasters would feel the pressure to come up with a more attractive alternative.

Or they might say "eff it, it's not worth it, we are not making money, lets promote something else."

Tiddywinks, anyone?

Seriously, whatever people may feel about PPVs, watching boxing on streams isn't the way to go.

I am a thousand percent convinced that it is. I am totally convinced that fans shelling out £15 a time for regular PPV shows in this country will only serve to bring out the worst in the individuals who currently promote the sport in this country. The worst thing that could happen is Degale/Groves makes a shedload on PPV. It will open the door to a whole new way of thinking - any attractive domestic pairing could then be PPV.

Sky have had £100's off me for PPV shows in the past, but no more. Streams exist, so I will use them.

JimJim2009 wrote:
Streams exist, so I will use them.

And if everyone did that..... ?

What happens to shows?

Promoters put then on for free, at a big personnal loss?

Sounds ace.

whicker wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:
Streams exist, so I will use them.

And if everyone did that..... ?

What happens to shows?

Promoters put then on for free, at a big personnal loss?

Sounds ace.

Arena ticket prices go up.

There's never huge money to be made in domestic boxing anyway. You ask FM or Hen if they can afford to retire.

I feel NO GUILT about stealing a stream. It's their own fault for pricing themselves out of the market. £15 notes for Groves/DeGale and Clev/Braehmer ISN'T good value for money. Both good fights, but no sensational world-beaters on this bill (in terms of fights). It's the total of opposite of what a PPV should represent. These types of fights are what you pay you Sky Sports subs for.

Jeez.

orbtastic wrote:

whicker wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:
Streams exist, so I will use them.

And if everyone did that..... ?

What happens to shows?

Promoters put then on for free, at a big personnal loss?

Sounds ace.

Arena ticket prices go up.

There's never huge money to be made in domestic boxing anyway. You ask FM or Hen if they can afford to retire.

I normally pretty much agree with your posts Orbtastic.

Both FW and Hen would definitely be in the top 1 or 2% of earners (compared to either mean, median or mode). No doubt they both have debts but they (I would venture) be in a far greater position to pack work in and kick back than the very vast majority of people; (and neither of them have been battered).

I meant Maloney, not the other Frank? They operate on totally different levels - FM in particular these days, gone are the heady days of Lennox Lewis fighting in Vegas etc.

My mistake ; I can remember FM coming up to the Prince of Wales on Balby Road in a big Mercades limousine around 1990, he was looking to sign some northern fighters that trained there. He must have been doing well then and I imagine he makes a decent living now with money in the bank.

This debate is about where our personal limits are - at what point each of us say "nah, £15 is taking the piss".

Some fans have been against PPV from the start, others accept the occasional £15 for a mega event, perhaps a few would happily pay £15 a week... for me its gone past the point of being reasonable, for Sky to charge £15 for a British title fight.

Going back in time, with this policy in mind, Lewis-Mason and Benn-Watson would have been PPV. Both shows were successful, had multi-million viewers on terrestrial TV, and the promoters are still earning and working today. They didn't go bust because neither show was PPV. Perhaps they'd have made more, had they been PPV, but where do you draw the line if you are happy to keep shelling out £15 ? An intercontinental title fight featuring a 24 hour sub fighting two weights above his natural weight division ?

As for the morals of me watching a live stream, jesus christ almighty this is 2011 and being a boxing fan isn't a puritan thing - are fans (sick of £15 charges) expected to lock themselves in a dark room and stand in the corner from 9pm to 11pm on a Sat night ? For what reason, exactly ?

If I don't hand over £15 to Sky, and watch on a live stream, those who disagree seem to be saying "ah, but if everyone did this, what would happen ?". firstly, I WANT EVERYONE TO DO THIS !!!!!!!!! And the answer to that question is, PPV would be knocked on the head or reserved for the special events.

I cast no judgment on Sky but the promoter of this show did something far worse to Joe Calzaghe, financially speaking, over the pay for the Bernard Hopkins fight, than I am doing by not coughing up £15 for a British title fight. Fund him ?! Not likely.

Oh no doubt, he always looks well turned out. I'm sure he's not just in purely for the money but I think some people have visions of boxing promoters sitting Tony Montana style in a huge empty mansion counting money for fun and ordering a new ivory back scratcher every week. No business can sustain continual losses but if you have no huge money makers then you're only really over going to break even or make a smallish profit which allows you to trundle along.

I like how Eddie Hearn's been given the keys to the car and is in the outside lane with his foot down and a huge F off grin on his face, knowing that if he crashes it'll all get bent back into shape for him. It's a good position to be in, for everyone concerned.

JimJim2009 wrote:This debate is about where our personal limits are - at what point each of us say "nah, £15 is taking the piss".

Some fans have been against PPV from the start, others accept the occasional £15 for a mega event, perhaps a few would happily pay £15 a week... for me its gone past the point of being reasonable, for Sky to charge £15 for a British title fight.

Going back in time, with this policy in mind, Lewis-Mason and Benn-Watson would have been PPV. Both shows were successful, had multi-million viewers on terrestrial TV, and the promoters are still earning and working today. They didn't go bust because neither show was PPV. Perhaps they'd have made more, had they been PPV, but where do you draw the line if you are happy to keep shelling out £15 ? An intercontinental title fight featuring a 24 hour sub fighting two weights above his natural weight division ?

As for the morals of me watching a live stream, jesus christ almighty this is 2011 and being a boxing fan isn't a puritan thing - are fans (sick of £15 charges) expected to lock themselves in a dark room and stand in the corner from 9pm to 11pm on a Sat night ? For what reason, exactly ?

If I don't hand over £15 to Sky, and watch on a live stream, those who disagree seem to be saying "ah, but if everyone did this, what would happen ?". firstly, I WANT EVERYONE TO DO THIS !!!!!!!!! And the answer to that question is, PPV would be knocked on the head or reserved for the special events.

I cast no judgment on Sky but the promoter of this show did something far worse to Joe Calzaghe, financially speaking, over the pay for the Bernard Hopkins fight, than I am doing by not coughing up £15 for a British title fight. Fund him ?! Not likely.

I think the problem is that some people don't want to pay for anything, no matter how reasonable or fair it is.

The current generation have grown up with the internet and you can more or less find anything to download, for free (given you have an internet connection and a PC etc) and some people are totally unwilling to even attend boxing, nevermind pay a PPV fee etc.

orbtastic wrote:Oh no doubt, he always looks well turned out. I'm sure he's not just in purely for the money but I think some people have visions of boxing promoters sitting Tony Montana style in a huge empty mansion counting money for fun and ordering a new ivory back scratcher every week. No business can sustain continual losses but if you have no huge money makers then you're only really over going to break even or make a smallish profit which allows you to trundle along.

I like how Eddie Hearn's been given the keys to the car and is in the outside lane with his foot down and a huge F off grin on his face, knowing that if he crashes it'll all get bent back into shape for him. It's a good position to be in, for everyone concerned.

It didn't work out for Verruca Salt :)

I have a SKY HD/sports sub, only thing I watch on it is boxing...sometimes wonder why I bother with it. I'd be happy sacking it off and going PPV for the boxing, would be cheaper i.e. I would avoid prizefighter etc.

orbtastic wrote:I think the problem is that some people don't want to pay for anything, no matter how reasonable or fair it is.

The current generation have grown up with the internet and you can more or less find anything to download, for free (given you have an internet connection and a PC etc) and some people are totally unwilling to even attend boxing, nevermind pay a PPV fee etc.

Maybe for some, this could be true. Not for me. Most of us have paid for PPV events, such as Mike Tyson fights, in the past, for example.

That was a whole different level. This compared to that is crap, I'm sorry

You want to fund FW and SKY and believe this nonsense that Boxing will die otherwise, then fine, fill your boots and empty your pockets.

Like Jim, I want these ppl to piss off as they have destroyed Boxing, here in UK and I know Boxing wont die, it might change, for the better and we might actually get value for money more often rather than ripped off.

People like Warren and SKY are the reason boxing is now a minority sport, all for the sake of ££££'s. So, lets give them more money for their PPV. Brilliant

We are not seen as fans of a sport but as 'revenue streams'.

I don't see why Sky can't make their PPVs availible online. I always buy the Primetime streams when ever they do one, I'd pay for the Sky ones if they offered an online stream too. Seems they are just too greedy and want to lock you into a monthly package so you can help fund yet more football on TV

If all you want to watch is boxing it's impossible to justify a package including a sh*tload of channels you don't want just for the privilege of paying PPV for any half decent card.