BoxRec

There are gradations of dominance and I don't think that Klit-Haye falls into the beatdown range. However, Wlad was in total control and in my opinion the use of "beatdown" effectively stresses this reality. I thought it was a very good article and if that is what BoxingNews24 is turning out now then I'll have to visit them more often

it's right up there with the best beatdowns in recent memory like haye v harrison

Captain Hook wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Captain Hook wrote:Cheers Ian, appreciated...yours is a thankless task.

For the record, I can see the argument that the word "beatdown" was a little strong, but I'll stick by it.

For my money Haye never looked like switching up a gear, never had Wlad in trouble, stuck rigidly to a gameplan that was not working (while Wlad's did to perfection) and failed to make any real dent in the Ukrainian or adapt to the way the fight was going.

Dancing in and out was not working; getting on his bike proved fruitless. Wlad's jab was too quick. Haye's speed was the only weapon he showed us, though in fairness he took some big shots well

Wlad looked fantastic, Haye looked forlorn and lay the blame at his own feet...quite literally.

He was supposed to hammer Wlad and knock him out. He didn't even bite the bullet at any point and take a few to land a few, he was as stubborn as a mule.

For me it was a very one-sided fight......

All opinions gratefully received, but words like "ridiculous" are a little wide of the mark as far as I'm concerned.

Agree with all of that. Personally I'd have used 'outclassed' more than 'beaten down' but we're getting into semantics here.

What is beyond doubt is that Wlad won without having to leave his comfort zone at any stage.

Cheers James, 'semantics' is the word....people look far too much into things/words

Although, to be fair, if you are writing pieces for others to read, then they are entitled to question your choice of words. Not having a pop at all, just being fair and balanced here.

crusader wrote:There are gradations of dominance and I don't think that Klit-Haye falls into the beatdown range. However, Wlad was in total control and in my opinion the use of "beatdown" effectively stresses this reality. I thought it was a very good article and if that is what BoxingNews24 is turning out now then I'll have to visit them more often

That's very kind of you Crusader, appreciated

And totally agree with you James, everyone has an opinion and I'm not precious; just my take on the fight. Not right or wrong, just how I see it. am open to feedback and criticism, good and bad.

Asterix, for example, has his opinion and I respect it...for the record I've never been on BoxingNews24 but I presume it's shite from the tone of the post. I may visit there now.

I'll try harder next time

Captain Hook wrote:Asterix, for example, has his opinion and I respect it...for the record I've never been on BoxingNews24 but I presume it's shite from the tone of the post. I may visit there now.

I'll try harder next time

BoxingNews24 is extremely opinionated. A guy is either the second coming or a bum. I have no problem with your writing; definitely not, but I don't like the way your article is written as though it was from Wlad himself. I enjoy (mostly) neutral articles the most.

Using the wrong word isn't about opinions. If I call it a 'hamburger of a fight' or say 'That punch was a real dehumidifier' it's just using the wrong word, not 'semantics'.

A beatdown, as some people here mentioned, is pretty obviously when a guy gets beaten up over the distance in a sickening, one-sided way, like Calzaghe/Lacy, Hopkins/Joppy, etc etc. Haye was unmarked at the end, shipped little punishment, and got outlanded a bit, that's all. Using such a strong word totally affects the tone of the piece and definitely put me off. I imagine if you put a poll up asking 'Was this fight a beatdown' the majority would vote for 'no'.

Wlad didn't need to do much to win the fight, and he didn't. 'Masterclass' is clearly more opinion, and I disagree with that too, but I respect it.

As it happens I'm a journalist and would probably submit an article one day, by the way.

Riddick Blowe wrote:Using the wrong word isn't about opinions. If I call it a 'hamburger of a fight' or say 'That punch was a real dehumidifier' it's just using the wrong word, not 'semantics'.

A beatdown, as some people here mentioned, is pretty obviously when a guy gets beaten up over the distance in a sickening, one-sided way, like Calzaghe/Lacy, Hopkins/Joppy, etc etc. Haye was unmarked at the end, shipped little punishment, and got outlanded a bit, that's all. Using such a strong word totally affects the tone of the piece and definitely put me off.

Wlad didn't need to do much to win the fight, and he didn't. 'Masterclass' is clearly more opinion, and I disagree with that too, but I respect it.

As it happens I'm a journalist and would probably submit an article one day, by the way.

Calzaghe/Lacy wasn't a beatdown it was more of a public flogging and I may use the terminology it was a hamburger of a fight again. Thanks.

Bowe/Holyfield is a hamburger of a trilogy, three parts of it and they are all tasty.

Riddick Blowe wrote:Using the wrong word isn't about opinions. If I call it a 'hamburger of a fight' or say 'That punch was a real dehumidifier' it's just using the wrong word, not 'semantics'.

A beatdown, as some people here mentioned, is pretty obviously when a guy gets beaten up over the distance in a sickening, one-sided way, like Calzaghe/Lacy, Hopkins/Joppy, etc etc. Haye was unmarked at the end, shipped little punishment, and got outlanded a bit, that's all. Using such a strong word totally affects the tone of the piece and definitely put me off. I imagine if you put a poll up asking 'Was this fight a beatdown' the majority would vote for 'no'.

Wlad didn't need to do much to win the fight, and he didn't. 'Masterclass' is clearly more opinion, and I disagree with that too, but I respect it.

As it happens I'm a journalist and would probably submit an article one day, by the way.

A stout defence. The point being though that when dealing with subjective matters it is unavoidable to use the occasional word which some people disagree with.

Cocks like Jeremy Clarkson and Frankie Boyle have become millionaires off the back of deliberately doing this.

Riddick Blowe wrote:Using the wrong word isn't about opinions. If I call it a 'hamburger of a fight' or say 'That punch was a real dehumidifier' it's just using the wrong word, not 'semantics'.

A beatdown, as some people here mentioned, is pretty obviously when a guy gets beaten up over the distance in a sickening, one-sided way, like Calzaghe/Lacy, Hopkins/Joppy, etc etc. Haye was unmarked at the end, shipped little punishment, and got outlanded a bit, that's all. Using such a strong word totally affects the tone of the piece and definitely put me off. I imagine if you put a poll up asking 'Was this fight a beatdown' the majority would vote for 'no'.

Wlad didn't need to do much to win the fight, and he didn't. 'Masterclass' is clearly more opinion, and I disagree with that too, but I respect it.

As it happens I'm a journalist and would probably submit an article one day, by the way.

How is it the wrong word if I said it, I felt it and said I am sticking by it?

That's an opinion.

And the article was neutral. I picked Haye to win and had been very critical of the Klits in the past. Sometimes you have to hold your hands up and admit you were wrong; something most posters seem incapable of doing.

I expect this fight to go down as a 'beat down' in the same way Naz/Barrera seems to have. One guy builds up interest by running his mouth over several years and then gets beaten in a dominant albeit boring fashion.

Not a beat down at all really but many people's memories of the build-up up will likely distort their memories of the fight itself. In the same way many boxing fans now seem to believe that Barrera beat Hamed to within an inch of his life in their fight.

J-C wrote:I expect this fight to go down as a 'beat down' in the same way Naz/Barrera seems to have. One guy builds up interest by running his mouth over several years and then gets beaten in a dominant albeit boring fashion.

Not a beat down at all really but many people's memories of the build-up up will likely distort their memories of the fight itself. In the same way many boxing fans now seem to believe that Barrera beat Hamed to within an inch of his life in their fight.

No not a beat down, but Barrera was a hell of a lot better than Klitchsko in their respective fights.... and was psychologically and physically in control throughout. Whereas Haye postured and DID look dangerous and like he could do something (which is why so many are dissapointed IMO) - Barrera did dominate Hamed, and the result never remotely looked in doubt the minute you saw Barrera being able to counter Hamed with ease.... perhaps its their respective styles, but when Hamed missed, Barrera made him pay - Klitchsko didn't all the time vs Haye.

Whereas I would say it could be argued that while the score cards of Haye vs Klitcshko was accurate (I had it bigger) it didn't necessarily provide the bigger picture of the fight AT THE TIME. Hamed vs Barerra, was the opposite - I thought the cards at the time were favourable to Hamed, and certainly in terms of the bigger picture.

This is getting a bit ridiculous

Now people are saying opinions are "distorted" because of the build up and you're "wrong" for seeing a fight a different way

I certainly wouldn't have described Wlad's effort as "boring", or that of Barrera. They fought well, and I for one have seen a lot more boring fights.

Both Naz and Haye did not deliver, that's a different story.

What is FACT is that both were beaten by the better man on the night, were nowhere near winning the fight and never stamped their authority on the opposition.

Both were looking for a KO in the late rounds because that's the only grape they could grab hold of.

I don't care how Wlad's face looked, he was the dominant force in this match-up. He raised his game and fought very well. Haye didn't. It was one-sided, there were not, in my opinion: "a few punches either way"

Cheers for all the feedback

PS Riddick - where are you a journalist? I'd be interested in reading some of your articles, seriously, and i'm sure Ian would appreciate any extra help

PS Some good points from you though Stu, as always

Captain Hook wrote:Now people are saying opinions are "distorted" because of the build up and you're "wrong" for seeing a fight a different way

If you mean me I wasn't referring to you article, I haven't had a chance to read it yet. The discussion just got me thinking about how fights are remembered.

J-C wrote:

Captain Hook wrote:Now people are saying opinions are "distorted" because of the build up and you're "wrong" for seeing a fight a different way

If you mean me I wasn't referring to you article, I haven't had a chance to read it yet. The discussion just got me thinking about how fights are remembered.

Fair enough JC, apologies,

Macho - agreed

The worst thing about Boxrec is it drags you away from your work! Back to it....ta lads

MachoMan09 wrote:Captain Hook, at least people are talking about your article, mate. That's a good thing. With all this Murdoch shenanigans going on and talk of partiality and impartiality, I have to be honest and say I don't mind a bit of partiality now and again. If you thought it was a "beat-down" stick to your guns. As they say in the mighty USA: eff the haters!

This is the point. If you can spot the fact it's supposed to be partial/opinion-led, then you're halfway there. I actually worry about retards who think an obvious opinion piece is the same as a report...though to make it confusing for the hard of thinking, a report often contains some level of subjectivity.

It's when you get blatant partiality masking as impartiality when the problem arises, e.g. Fox News, Daily Mail, etc.

MachoMan09 wrote:Captain Hook, at least people are talking about your article, mate. That's a good thing. With all this Murdoch shenanigans going on and talk of partiality and impartiality, I have to be honest and say I don't mind a bit of partiality now and again. If you thought it was a "beat-down" stick to your guns. As they say in the mighty USA: eff the haters!

:)

right on brother.....

The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about – Oscar Wilde

Is he? Time for a rewrite :)

Don't get them angry, you won't like them when they're angry...

"What was that about Kid Galahad you ignorant poofter?"

Captain Hook wrote:
PS Riddick - where are you a journalist? I'd be interested in reading some of your articles, seriously, and i'm sure Ian would appreciate any extra help

I'm a staff writer for a business magazine aimed at SMEs, would rather not say who I am as I like to stay private but I'd be happy to send over a couple of articles if you're still interested. Really have no idea if I could do the boxing writing justice but would love to try some time!

I'm a business editor too mate, if ever have anything for Wales or the north west give me a shout....ta

Oh go on then.... :)

“As a boxer, I’ve been interested in watching David Haye fighting Wladimir Klitschko. Firstly, Haye was somehow able to give Wladimir fits in the ring. Comparing his resistance to this of the younger Klitschko’s previous opponents, this was a real achievement. Surely, Haye had said too much and he boasted way too much. People anticipated fewer actions from him for this reason. Personally, I thought Wladimir could knock him out in the later rounds. But he was unable to do so. Given this, I like what I’ve seen from David Haye. He accomplished a lot more than I really expected from him”, commented Pirog.

“Haye isn’t a large fighter by any means. But he was found to be very quick, and this is a plus [for him]. Who is next for the K-Brothers? Tomasz Adamek is right here – he has already been signed – but other than him I cannot see anybody who is in the same league with the Big Brothers. What is next for the heavyweights? Maybe I’m wrong, but the fight between Alexander Povetkin and David Haye would be a blessing for the fans. It’s very interesting. They are both the same size. I do think this battle would be a lot more exciting than Klitschko’s bouts with both David and Alexander”.

Dmitry Pirog

Well he should stay away from the Klits last week and can't get out on a whimper; needs to do something and I suggest getting back in the ring against a live opponent...and there are few of them around

Captain Hook wrote:Well he should stay away from the Klits last week and can't get out on a whimper; needs to do something and I suggest getting back in the ring against a live opponent...and there are few of them around

That could have come from Pirog himself!