BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

crusader wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote: Eh??
How can you say that when neither can even throw a proper uppercut?

Please explain,

Wlad throws every punch in accordance with a high standard of technique (go watch young Wlad in action), but his output has been limited to primarily jabs and right hands because this approach keeps him out of danger more so than all other approaches. The absence of an active uppercut in his arsenal does not mean that he is unable to throw that punch properly; it means that he decides not to throw it all.

I don't think that Vitali has good technique.

Vitali does not fight in a very orthodox manner, but his technique works, which is all that matters. He makes the best use of his advantages in height and reach, and leans back making himself even harder to hit, whislt keeping his arms extended in front of him, so that his fists are never far away from his opponent. Unusual - yes, effective - definitely.

Neither of the klits commit much on their shots, but I think that is deliberate, especially as Wlad used to throw much more bodyweight behind his shots early in his career.

Vitali fights like a giant effective Ingle fighter.

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:#

No probs!
My take is simple, he's a below average fighter who uses his height well and who has good power but not a great chin.

PS That guy was right it was a Eubank'esque line you wrote

Even with today's standards of heavyweights, being #1 in the world is still an amazing achievement. You do not get to be the #1 fighter in the world if you are a 'below average fighter'. Your statement is the thing that is below average.

Junk junk junk!

His height and power is about it for him.

By below average what I mean is that If he were 6'2 he would barley be Euro level becase he can't really box can he?

Unless you think he can?? and are willling to break down the finer points of Wlads classic 'old skool fundamentals' I think you should back off on this one (anyone with a brain would do so) as you risk getting shot down in flames by the smarter people on this forum Keithy.

If I'm risking being shot down by the smarter people, then I wouldn't be worried about being shot down by you.

Height...... If all it took were height and power, then Primo Carnera would have reigned for a decade, Mike (The Giant) White would have dominated the 90's heavyweight scene and Valuev would be unbeatable. Height alone has never been an important factor in the heavyweight division, see Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson and Rocky Marciano.

Power..... Physical power, means that Wlad can out muscle people and that is something he uses well, but again, that alone is not enough. Punching power is also something he excels at, but if power was all it took, then Earnie Shavers and David Tua would have been dominant champions.

Wladimir Klitschko uses a lot of different assets to win fights, not just the ones you pointed out.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

crusader wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote: Eh??
How can you say that when neither can even throw a proper uppercut?

Please explain,

Wlad throws every punch in accordance with a high standard of technique (go watch young Wlad in action), but his output has been limited to primarily jabs and right hands because this approach keeps him out of danger more so than all other approaches. The absence of an active uppercut in his arsenal does not mean that he is unable to throw that punch properly; it means that he decides not to throw it all.

I don't think that Vitali has good technique.

Vitali does not fight in a very orthodox manner, but his technique works, which is all that matters. He makes the best use of his advantages in height and reach, and leans back making himself even harder to hit, whislt keeping his arms extended in front of him, so that his fists are never far away from his opponent. Unusual - yes, effective - definitely.

Neither of the klits commit much on their shots, but I think that is deliberate, especially as Wlad used to throw much more bodyweight behind his shots early in his career.

This is a great description. They remind me of how big men fought back in the old graint b/w films. Main difference being that as it's 12 rounds the Klits throw more leather. But they are very, very tricky customers to beat.

Ezzard wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

crusader wrote: Wlad throws every punch in accordance with a high standard of technique (go watch young Wlad in action), but his output has been limited to primarily jabs and right hands because this approach keeps him out of danger more so than all other approaches. The absence of an active uppercut in his arsenal does not mean that he is unable to throw that punch properly; it means that he decides not to throw it all.

I don't think that Vitali has good technique.

Vitali does not fight in a very orthodox manner, but his technique works, which is all that matters. He makes the best use of his advantages in height and reach, and leans back making himself even harder to hit, whislt keeping his arms extended in front of him, so that his fists are never far away from his opponent. Unusual - yes, effective - definitely.

Neither of the klits commit much on their shots, but I think that is deliberate, especially as Wlad used to throw much more bodyweight behind his shots early in his career.

This is a great description. They remind me of how big men fought back in the old graint b/w films. Main difference being that as it's 12 rounds the Klits throw more leather. But they are very, very tricky customers to beat.

Vitali's style reminds me a little of Donny Lalonde.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: Even with today's standards of heavyweights, being #1 in the world is still an amazing achievement. You do not get to be the #1 fighter in the world if you are a 'below average fighter'. Your statement is the thing that is below average.

Junk junk junk!

His height and power is about it for him.

By below average what I mean is that If he were 6'2 he would barley be Euro level becase he can't really box can he?

Unless you think he can?? and are willling to break down the finer points of Wlads classic 'old skool fundamentals' I think you should back off on this one (anyone with a brain would do so) as you risk getting shot down in flames by the smarter people on this forum Keithy.

If I'm risking being shot down by the smarter people, then I wouldn't be worried about being shot down by you. never said I was smart Keith

Height...... If all it took were height and power, then Primo Carnera would have reigned for a decade, Mike (The Giant) White would have dominated the 90's heavyweight scene and Valuev would be unbeatable. Height alone has never been an important factor in the heavyweight division, see Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson and Rocky Marciano.
No because the were uncordinated freak shows your argument falls at the first hurdle right there.

Power..... Physical power, means that Wlad can out muscle people and that is something he uses well, but again, that alone is not enough. Punching power is also something he excels at, but if power was all it took, then Earnie Shavers and David Tua would have been dominant champions.
No because they were in a VERY strong division and Wald is in the WORST EVER HW divison, back in the 90's and 70's there were harder punchers who COULD box also at the time, Tyson & Foreman both punched harder than Tua and Shavers and I dont believe that Tua punched harder than Ibeabuchi or Lewis.
Shavers was overated IMO.

Wladimir Klitschko uses a lot of different assets to win fights, not just the ones you pointed out.

Nope he uses jab lean back take two steps back jab jab jab grab staight right grab with the occasional low slung hook thrown in along with a whole shitload of power.
thats his whole game.

Jon, if you are assessing Wlad without at least giving credit for excellent footwork and control of distance, i think you're selling him short.

Counter-puncher wrote:Jon, if you are assessing Wlad without at least giving credit for excellent footwork and control of distance, i think you're selling him short.

Excellent footwork lol he floats like a buffalo but to give him some credit his is great in reverse.

He aint no dancer thats for sure it's more of a fluid shuffle.

Jon Saxon wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Jon, if you are assessing Wlad without at least giving credit for excellent footwork and control of distance, i think you're selling him short.

Excellent footwork lol he floats like a buffalo but to give him some credit his is great in reverse.

He aint no dancer thats for sure it's more of a fluid shuffle.

if you can't recognise that he is distinctly athletic for a 6'6 man i can only assume your prejudice is blinding you. he had no trouble controlling distance against Haye, who many before the fight said was considerably faster. his footwork almost always has him in the position that suits him.

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote: Junk junk junk!

His height and power is about it for him.

By below average what I mean is that If he were 6'2 he would barley be Euro level becase he can't really box can he?

Unless you think he can?? and are willling to break down the finer points of Wlads classic 'old skool fundamentals' I think you should back off on this one (anyone with a brain would do so) as you risk getting shot down in flames by the smarter people on this forum Keithy.

If I'm risking being shot down by the smarter people, then I wouldn't be worried about being shot down by you. never said I was smart Keith

Height...... If all it took were height and power, then Primo Carnera would have reigned for a decade, Mike (The Giant) White would have dominated the 90's heavyweight scene and Valuev would be unbeatable. Height alone has never been an important factor in the heavyweight division, see Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson and Rocky Marciano.
No because the were uncordinated freak shows your argument falls at the first hurdle right there.

Power..... Physical power, means that Wlad can out muscle people and that is something he uses well, but again, that alone is not enough. Punching power is also something he excels at, but if power was all it took, then Earnie Shavers and David Tua would have been dominant champions.
No because they were in a VERY strong division and Wald is in the WORST EVER HW divison, back in the 90's and 70's there were harder punchers who COULD box also at the time, Tyson & Foreman both punched harder than Tua and Shavers and I dont believe that Tua punched harder than Ibeabuchi or Lewis.
Shavers was overated IMO.

Wladimir Klitschko uses a lot of different assets to win fights, not just the ones you pointed out.

Nope he uses jab lean back take two steps back jab jab jab grab staight right grab with the occasional low slung hook thrown in along with a whole shitload of power.
thats his whole game.

Jab, jab,jab.... So it's not just power and height then? That's what you said before.

Counter-puncher wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Jon, if you are assessing Wlad without at least giving credit for excellent footwork and control of distance, i think you're selling him short.

Excellent footwork lol he floats like a buffalo but to give him some credit his is great in reverse.

He aint no dancer thats for sure it's more of a fluid shuffle.

if you can't recognise that he is distinctly athletic for a 6'6 man i can only assume your prejudice is blinding you. he had no trouble controlling distance against Haye, who many before the fight said was considerably faster. his footwork almost always has him in the position that suits him.

I'm not blinded he is grea for a tall guy but compared to the footwork of Haye he's shite, Haye could get near him because steward taugh klit how to fight tall ala Lewis, wheather it was Roy Jones or David haye they wouldnt get near Wlad, it has nothing to do with Wlads inept punch tecnique.

He's a big guy who can fight and who fights GREAT tall but he's a pish boxer.

I'm stunned you can't see this, trully stunned that anyone who knows boxing can't see how bad a boxer Klit is.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: If I'm risking being shot down by the smarter people, then I wouldn't be worried about being shot down by you. never said I was smart Keith

Height...... If all it took were height and power, then Primo Carnera would have reigned for a decade, Mike (The Giant) White would have dominated the 90's heavyweight scene and Valuev would be unbeatable. Height alone has never been an important factor in the heavyweight division, see Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson and Rocky Marciano.
No because the were uncordinated freak shows your argument falls at the first hurdle right there.

Power..... Physical power, means that Wlad can out muscle people and that is something he uses well, but again, that alone is not enough. Punching power is also something he excels at, but if power was all it took, then Earnie Shavers and David Tua would have been dominant champions.
No because they were in a VERY strong division and Wald is in the WORST EVER HW divison, back in the 90's and 70's there were harder punchers who COULD box also at the time, Tyson & Foreman both punched harder than Tua and Shavers and I dont believe that Tua punched harder than Ibeabuchi or Lewis.
Shavers was overated IMO.

Wladimir Klitschko uses a lot of different assets to win fights, not just the ones you pointed out.

Nope he uses jab lean back take two steps back jab jab jab grab staight right grab with the occasional low slung hook thrown in along with a whole shitload of power.
thats his whole game.

Jab, jab,jab.... So it's not just power and height then? That's what you said before.

I SAID he fights GREAT tall, If you know this sport then you will know that you cannot fight tall without a good jab and Wlad has a great stick.

But he can't fight a lick.

Counter-puncher wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Jon, if you are assessing Wlad without at least giving credit for excellent footwork and control of distance, i think you're selling him short.

Excellent footwork lol he floats like a buffalo but to give him some credit his is great in reverse.

He aint no dancer thats for sure it's more of a fluid shuffle.

if you can't recognise that he is distinctly athletic for a 6'6 man i can only assume your prejudice is blinding you. he had no trouble controlling distance against Haye, who many before the fight said was considerably faster. his footwork almost always has him in the position that suits him.

Amen to that counter puncher. I'm not Wlad's biggest fan, but credit where credit is due.

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote: Nope he uses jab lean back take two steps back jab jab jab grab staight right grab with the occasional low slung hook thrown in along with a whole shitload of power.
thats his whole game.

Jab, jab,jab.... So it's not just power and height then? That's what you said before.

I SAID he fights GREAT tall, If you know this sport then you will know that you cannot fight tall without a good jab and Wlad has a great stick.

But he can't fight a lick.

The art of boxing/fighting is traditionally described as hitting without being hit. Wlad is a master of that. Tell me I'm wrong.

If you people dont understand what I am writing then you must be either very young or have never understood boxing as a sport.

What do any of you think about Wlads hook of the jab?.......thats my point.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: Jab, jab,jab.... So it's not just power and height then? That's what you said before.

I SAID he fights GREAT tall, If you know this sport then you will know that you cannot fight tall without a good jab and Wlad has a great stick.

But he can't fight a lick.

The art of boxing/fighting is traditionally described as hitting without being hit. Wlad is a master of that. Tell me I'm wrong.

Your wrong, look at his face after the small haye kept hitting it, he was the one who the damage, he aint no floyd so give it a rest as it's a futile argument.
Lets not forget Brewster,Sanders, yada yada...

In fact I wil go one further ..Corrie Sander would KO Wlad at ANY point in his career.

He has got 'slightly' better but the division has got MUCH worse.

Jon Saxon wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote: Excellent footwork lol he floats like a buffalo but to give him some credit his is great in reverse.

He aint no dancer thats for sure it's more of a fluid shuffle.

if you can't recognise that he is distinctly athletic for a 6'6 man i can only assume your prejudice is blinding you. he had no trouble controlling distance against Haye, who many before the fight said was considerably faster. his footwork almost always has him in the position that suits him.

I'm not blinded he is grea for a tall guy but compared to the footwork of Haye he's shite, Haye could get near him because steward taugh klit how to fight tall ala Lewis, wheather it was Roy Jones or David haye they wouldnt get near Wlad, it has nothing to do with Wlads inept punch tecnique.

He's a big guy who can fight and who fights GREAT tall but he's a pish boxer.

I'm stunned you can't see this, trully stunned that anyone who knows boxing can't see how bad a boxer Klit is.

i am merely commenting on his footwork so don't put words in my mouth trying to give it your 'I'm the Eddie Futch of the North' shite.

but compared to the footwork of Haye he's shite

now you're talking bollocks. this brilliant footwork of haye's, how many times did it put him in position to land a really effective blow?

because if Wlad's footwork was so much worse Haye could have gone in and out on him all night (as some were predicting- were you, too?)

but he didn't

as a self-proclaimed guru of boxing technique and skill i am somewhat surprised you haven't considered this.

However I'm guessing it's dark for you, with your head buried all that way up your own rectum.

Jon Saxon wrote:
Your wrong, look at his face after the small haye kept hitting it, he was the one who the damage, he aint no floyd so give it a rest as it's a futile argument.
.

oh, i forgot fights were judged according to who looks most damaged at the end of it.

someone making retarded points like that has no place being as arrogant and high-handed as you are.

you have absolutely no fvcking social skills, which is why you may have noticed nobody can be bothered trying to converse politely with you. even a guy like keithmoon who has no harsh words for anyone, you try to belittle and insult him. you're an absolute fvcking thread-killing head-the-ball.

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote: I SAID he fights GREAT tall, If you know this sport then you will know that you cannot fight tall without a good jab and Wlad has a great stick.

But he can't fight a lick.

The art of boxing/fighting is traditionally described as hitting without being hit. Wlad is a master of that. Tell me I'm wrong.

Your wrong, look at his face after the small haye kept hitting it, he was the one who the damage, he aint no floyd so give it a rest as it's a futile argument.
Lets not forget Brewster,Sanders, yada yada...

In fact I wil go one further ..Corrie Sander would KO Wlad at ANY point in his career.

He has got 'slightly' better but the division has got MUCH worse.

Winning is the ultimate goal and Wlad does that very well. He learned from his defeats and became a dominant champion. He wins and he does that because he is a superb boxer.

Counter-puncher wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote: if you can't recognise that he is distinctly athletic for a 6'6 man i can only assume your prejudice is blinding you. he had no trouble controlling distance against Haye, who many before the fight said was considerably faster. his footwork almost always has him in the position that suits him.

I'm not blinded he is grea for a tall guy but compared to the footwork of Haye he's shite, Haye could get near him because steward taugh klit how to fight tall ala Lewis, wheather it was Roy Jones or David haye they wouldnt get near Wlad, it has nothing to do with Wlads inept punch tecnique.

He's a big guy who can fight and who fights GREAT tall but he's a pish boxer.

I'm stunned you can't see this, trully stunned that anyone who knows boxing can't see how bad a boxer Klit is.

i am merely commenting on his footwork so don't put words in my mouth trying to give it your 'I'm the Eddie Futch of the North' shite.

but compared to the footwork of Haye he's shite

now you're talking bollocks. this brilliant footwork of haye's, how many times did it put him in position to land a really effective blow?

because if Wlad's footwork was so much worse Haye could have gone in and out on him all night (as some were predicting- were you, too?)

but he didn't

as a self-proclaimed guru of boxing technique and skill i am somewhat surprised you haven't considered this.

However I'm guessing it's dark for you, with your head buried all that way up your own rectum.

fornicate off with the personals it looks weak.

So you think Wlad has better fotwork than Haye? Brilliant!!!!

Counter-puncher wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:
Your wrong, look at his face after the small haye kept hitting it, he was the one who the damage, he aint no floyd so give it a rest as it's a futile argument.
.

oh, i forgot fights were judged according to who looks most damaged at the end of it.

Out of context I was refering to Klits "great defence" lol... owned out of the fuking pitch.

Hey fannywank I like Keith and social skills do not extend to forums you fool.

here's a thing Jon.

to throw punches you need to be at the right range. to be at the right range you need the right foot placing. without that you might be reduced to what Haye was reduced to, running aimlessly round the ring in fear of his life. if haye's footwork is that much better than Wlad's explain to me why he couldn't land more than 3 punches in an entire fight. every single fighter who has ever fought Wlad admits his movement surprised them.

as for the personals, I don't think anyone with your scabrous attitude has the right to expect polite discourse, so you're not going to get it.

Counter-puncher wrote:here's a thing Jon.

to throw punches you need to be at the right range. to be at the right range you need the right foot placing. without that you might be reduced to what Haye was reduced to, running aimlessly round the ring in fear of his life. if haye's footwork is that much better than Wlad's explain to me why he couldn't land more than 3 punches in an entire fight. every single fighter who has ever fought Wlad admits his movement surprised them.

as for the personals, I don't think anyone with your scabrous attitude has the right to expect polite discourse, so you're not going to get it.

You have written a bag of shite!
Now here's why....

A big fighter who fights tall will always beat a smaller dancer,
Counter Puncher have you boxed before? If you have you will no exactly what I am talking about, it's very hard trying to close the distance on a big guy who is good at fighting tall.

BTW I hoped Haye would win but I knew he had got it wong, you see Haye thought he was the same height as Sanders..BIG MISTAKE, Sanders is taller, a southpaw who fights with a straight back whilst throwing straight punches whereas Haye fights small and tight at a rough height of 5,10 this against a huge guy likes Wald is a no no
BUT Haye has great footwork, probably the best in the division, great fluidity and blance, almost cat like, whereas Wlad? come on!

Put this in your memorey bank and don't bother me again with your impudence.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Ezzard wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Vitali does not fight in a very orthodox manner, but his technique works, which is all that matters. He makes the best use of his advantages in height and reach, and leans back making himself even harder to hit, whislt keeping his arms extended in front of him, so that his fists are never far away from his opponent. Unusual - yes, effective - definitely.

Neither of the klits commit much on their shots, but I think that is deliberate, especially as Wlad used to throw much more bodyweight behind his shots early in his career.

This is a great description. They remind me of how big men fought back in the old graint b/w films. Main difference being that as it's 12 rounds the Klits throw more leather. But they are very, very tricky customers to beat.

Vitali's style reminds me a little of Donny Lalonde.

Good call.

Jon Saxon wrote:
A big fighter who fights tall will always beat a smaller dancer,
.

tell Tommy Hearns that.

Jon Saxon wrote: it's very hard trying to close the distance on a big guy who is good at fighting tall.

.

it is hard if they are good on their feet like Wlad is, yes.

if a tall guy fights tall with shite footwork like Valuev's, then they are easy to beat.

so the difference there is Haye beat Valuev but didn't beat Wlad, becasue aside from fighting tall, Wlad's footwork is very under-rated.