BoxRec

TheDennisMoore wrote:I'M new here but in this thread there are people who know about boxing and others who are clueless.Joe Frazier is only a foil to Ali and any real punchers would slap him silly like Foreman did.He had trouble with Oscar Ie Ringo Bonavena who was shot and killed in a brothel.Fraziers only win of note was against Ali.Jimmy Ellis Jerry Quarry are glass jawed fighters made to order for Frazier.Bonavena almost beat him.Bonavina had above average power.Frazier like Patterson was carefully managed and the likes of Shavers Lyle were kept from him until they took Foreman and Frazier was pummelled into Oblivion.Liston a more skilled and harder puncher than Big George would knock Frazier out in round 1 in 1-3 knockdowns.Liston would have crushed Ali if the mob and boxing powers did not order Liston to take a dive.Newly realeased FBI reports from the time said that the fight was fixed from spying the FBi was doing at the time due to reports that the fight was being fixed before the fight.We are talikng the first fight not the blantant obvious phatom Punch fix of the seecond fight.Frazier camp would not even consider fighting liston post Ali fights because Fraziers camp knew punchers would starch smoking Joe.Frazier was like Norton a good foil for boxers but a feast for any good punching heavyweights.

misterpunch wrote:there's no such thing as facts - and that's a fact

klompton wrote:Liston would be eaten alive by Frazier. Frazier would make him quit.

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:Both in their prime I thing this would be a gruelling fight for both men FRAZIER would be staggered a couple of time's in the first 3 round's
but with pure determination would claw his way back into the fight and stop LISTON in 11 unbelievable round's

Kalan wrote: ↑08 Apr 2018, 18:31 It would be another Foreman-Frazier fight.... Liston badly wanted Frazier.... The perfect style or him, like Patterson.

Sonny said.... "I wouldn't have to chase him... It would be like shooting fish in a barrel."

Liston had a tremendous straight right... As Smokin' loaded his hook.... KABLAAAM!!! ....

That's how George got him, but with the uppercut.

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑18 Jan 2012, 23:39 Frazier, Ali, and Foreman "shocked the world" on their best nights.

Some fighters are just full of surprises ain"t they?

Did Sonny "Outperform expectations"? When he KO'd Patterson? OK, some will say that was shocking I suppose.

His most shocking moments were probably when he fell short. Like Tyson he was sort of constructed to eventually collapse. Each saving their most relevant moments for their declines.

"Jumping the synapse" is something some folks just can't fathom. And yet it's flat out as real as it gets. And usually that prime bit of real estate is owned by those fighters with "iron psyche constitutions."

Not the Liston's and the Tyson's as much as the Ali's, Frazier's and perhaps Holyfield's. (lol ok I"m goin' for your buttons with EH lol) Foreman demonstrated how you can travel inexplicably from one side of these tracks to the other.

Some fighters are hard to peg by the "assessors". And they outperform expectations...because they can.


Maybe Sonny SHOULD beat Joe....but he wouldn't. IMHO.

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑08 Apr 2018, 19:48

Kalan wrote: ↑08 Apr 2018, 18:31 It would be another Foreman-Frazier fight.... Liston badly wanted Frazier.... The perfect style or him, like Patterson.

Sonny said.... "I wouldn't have to chase him... It would be like shooting fish in a barrel."

Liston had a tremendous straight right... As Smokin' loaded his hook.... KABLAAAM!!! ....

That's how George got him, but with the uppercut.

That is a simpleton assessment. And it's saying that Floyd and Joe were two peas in a pod. Anybody else buyin' this load of manure? It would absolutely not be a another "Foreman Frazier" fight.....but that is a very popular tune. And your cover of that top ten loony tune, is about as good as anyone else's I've heard.

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑08 Apr 2018, 22:50 You have demonstrated far more than enough brain power to blow your own nose,

oogiebe wrote: ↑09 Apr 2018, 09:08 Frazier is 'made' for a Liston.

Kalan wrote: ↑09 Apr 2018, 14:51 Now you're almost starting to think..... But careful....don't blow a gasket.

golden oldie wrote: ↑09 Apr 2018, 15:08 Funnily enough to most people it was Foreman's " uppercuts " that did for Joe, not straight rights.

Kalan wrote: ↑09 Apr 2018, 17:15 Joe was a dipper... He'd dip down and come up with the hook like Dempsey... Joe'd either throw the hook or not... pop the jab and dip again.. Tunney hit Dempsey all the time with the straight right and the jab... Tunney wasn't big and had no power, but he hit Dempsey monotonously... It was a 10-round beating... Ken Norton was tall, but he was a dipper.

Frazier broke up his rhythm to try to fool you.. You needed good timing and a sharp delivery to get him.. Foreman loved dippers because every time he landed he hurt them... At 217 he was raw boned and the sharpest of his life... Patterson was a dipper and you could time him with straight rights or uppercuts.. Liston did both... Dippers give you their head to shoot at... If you're big, tall, and strong with great hand speed, timing, and sharpness, it's not a good night for them..

6 to 10 pounds of excess weight.... poor strength training and conditioning.... a poor training camp with poor sparring.... not enough rounds or fights the previous 2 years... a bad night's sleep... Many things can make small impairments to your speed, timing, and sharpness... You can have a bad fight like a hitter can go 0-for-5 or 5-for-5 at the plate in Baseball.

Skillful and sharp right hand counterpunchers like Schmeling, Joshua, or Holmes beats the crap out out of dippers.. Marvis Frazier was able to avoid Joe Bugner's ridiculous, slow punches, but got nailed straight away by Holmes.

Frazier was also a bobber and weaver and rhythm fighter... Which means you didn't have to be throwing punches at him to gauge his head movements... Frazier ducked right into the first knockdown shot... Foreman loaded the uppercut from well below his waist and and Smokin' ducked right into it... Bobbers and weavers supply some of you power.

Joe was already hurt before the 1st knockdown... He was hurt a minute into the fight.

oogiebe wrote: ↑09 Apr 2018, 17:18

Kalan wrote: ↑09 Apr 2018, 17:15 Joe was a dipper... He'd dip down and come up with the hook like Dempsey... Joe'd either throw the hook or not... pop the jab and dip again.. Tunney hit Dempsey all the time with the straight right and the jab... Tunney wasn't big and had no power, but he hit Dempsey monotonously... It was a 10-round beating... Ken Norton was tall, but he was a dipper.

Frazier broke up his rhythm to try to fool you.. You needed good timing and a sharp delivery to get him.. Foreman loved dippers because every time he landed he hurt them... At 217 he was raw boned and the sharpest of his life... Patterson was a dipper and you could time him with straight rights or uppercuts.. Liston did both... Dippers give you their head to shoot at... If you're big, tall, and strong with great hand speed, timing, and sharpness, it's not a good night for them..

6 to 10 pounds of excess weight.... poor strength training and conditioning.... a poor training camp with poor sparring.... not enough rounds or fights the previous 2 years... a bad night's sleep... Many things can make small impairments to your speed, timing, and sharpness... You can have a bad fight like a hitter can go 0-for-5 or 5-for-5 at the plate in Baseball.

Skillful and sharp right hand counterpunchers like Schmeling, Joshua, or Holmes beats the crap out out of dippers.. Marvis Frazier was able to avoid Joe Bugner's ridiculous, slow punches, but got nailed straight away by Holmes.

Frazier was also a bobber and weaver and rhythm fighter... Which means you didn't have to be throwing punches at him to gauge his head movements... Frazier ducked right into the first knockdown shot... Foreman loaded the uppercut from well below his waist and and Smokin' ducked right into it... Bobbers and weavers supply some of you power.

Joe was already hurt before the 1st knockdown... He was hurt a minute into the fight.

In lesser words...Liston wins!