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Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 10:14
by loaded_gloves
Could Haye not even put down Don Charles?
Wow!!
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 11:23
by Boilermaker
loaded_gloves wrote:Could Haye not even put down Don Charles?
Wow!!
Yet (from what i could tell at least) he knocked Chisora to the ground. Maybe Don Charles should get the next shot at Klitchsko?
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 11:29
by nobby_nobbins
Boilermaker wrote:loaded_gloves wrote:Could Haye not even put down Don Charles?
Wow!!
Yet (from what i could tell at least) he knocked Chisora to the ground. Maybe Don Charles should get the next shot at Klitchsko?
It looked to me like Haye pulled Chisora down after thumping him a couple of times.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 11:40
by Boilermaker
nobby_nobbins wrote:Boilermaker wrote:loaded_gloves wrote:Could Haye not even put down Don Charles?
Wow!!
Yet (from what i could tell at least) he knocked Chisora to the ground. Maybe Don Charles should get the next shot at Klitchsko?
It looked to me like Haye pulled Chisora down after thumping him a couple of times.
It was hard to tell. I thought that Chisora looked like he dropped hard. But then again, to me it also looked like living proof on film that David Haye could teleport, because i didnt see him get off the ground or even grapple on the ground, yet he suddenly appeared from behind the grapple where i swear he should have been. Probably just my eyes playing tricks because no one else has mentioned it but i thought Chisora was hit and then dropped to the ground.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 11:53
by Boilermaker
actually i just looked at the footage on teh other thread which is pretty clear. Haye definitely lands a couple of shots and then an elbow on Chisoras when chisora is trying to clinch. I still maintain that haye teleports after that point though the film shows it clearly!
In all serious, i think the only explanation is that chisora drops to the ground and Haye retreats behind the bodies who are then wrestling adn restraining chisora and otehrs which makes it look like Haye is on the ground grappling. He cant be though because he appears in the second confrontation with Charles right out of the camera shot while there is a second struggle going on between entourage.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 15:39
by Finn
Andypittcov wrote:Kingfinn I would say yes if you stick around after being threatened your looking for trouble. Why do you think we have this 'fight or flight' built into us, it's so we can effin do one if we sense danger, therefore if you anticipate voilence but stand your ground( or stay in the pub) your clearly choosing the fight option. I ain't being soft just telling it how it is.
Thats not how it is, why should a trained fighter leave the pub when threatened. If you were in that situation and left the pub because you were going to get a kick in thats self preservation and sensible, if you can take the other guy out if he causes trouble then why leave? Its that type off attitude which has allowed thugs and bullies to become dominant in the UK, people run scared instead of showing some balls. If you went over to the guy or eyeballed him thats looking for trouble, not leaving is called standing your ground.
if someone was likely to stab or shoot me i would consider leaving but if it was just some normal thug i would just carry on about my normal business, if they then want to come over and confront me and therefore get their arses handed to them, then more fool them, im sure next time they think about causing trouble with someone who cant fight they will think twice remmbering the pain inflicted on them during a wrath of Finn production.
Bet you chisora will think twice before being so menacing.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 15:39
by Pat Butcher
Andypittcov wrote:Kingfinn I would say yes if you stick around after being threatened your looking for trouble. Why do you think we have this 'fight or flight' built into us, it's so we can effin do one if we sense danger, therefore if you anticipate voilence but stand your ground( or stay in the pub) your clearly choosing the fight option. I ain't being soft just telling it how it is.
Or you chose not to run away from bullies
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 15:43
by Pat Butcher
sharpei_louis wrote:I deal with cases of assault every day. Haye would never get to a British court as no lawyer I have ever delt with would see his actions as anything other than self defence. It wouldn't get out of a police station. Haye is well well within his rights.
It has been argued that a head to head is commonplace in boxing which is why he's in the wrong for striking Chisora, but it would clearly be the opposite.
Haye is used to confrontational situations and would be able to pick up on subtleties in Chisora. He obviously took the head to head at first which is why he still held the bottle in his hand, but given that Chisora had marched down from the stage making threats of assault to an audience member, holding an item in his own hand (granted a mic, but conflict makes you sense something like that as dangerous) and as that has come up towards Haye's face, Haye struck him once instinctively as he didn't use the bottle as a weapon but neither did he have chance to drop it, then they grappled. That is clearly and fully justifiable as self defence as Chisora's actions give every indicator possible to Haye that he is about to be subject to immediate unlawful violence. Haye then moves backwards and rather than look after their own man Chisora's entourage pursues Haye and another of them tries to hit him. Haye hits him, still backing up. When he is cornered and more pursue him he does throw an item and leaves. All fully justifiable and reasonable force in the circumstances.
You simply cannot underestimate the point that at no stage did Haye approach Chisora, and that of the whole group he was the only person to take a backwards step. If all parties had done no more than stand still, which all are entitled to do, nothing would have occurred. The aggressor is clearly Chisora and Haye's force in defence against him is nowhere near unreasonable. Chisora would be likely convicted of an offence under the Publi Order act were it in the UK, if not a common assault, and Charles may be looking at an offence too.
I agree. Thought Haye was right to defend himself. Better to get the fist dig in rather than get punched/headbutted/slapped or whatever first.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 15:58
by Andypittcov
Pat Butcher wrote:Andypittcov wrote:Kingfinn I would say yes if you stick around after being threatened your looking for trouble. Why do you think we have this 'fight or flight' built into us, it's so we can effin do one if we sense danger, therefore if you anticipate voilence but stand your ground( or stay in the pub) your clearly choosing the fight option. I ain't being soft just telling it how it is.
Or you chose not to run away from bullies
It's got eff all to do with running away
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 16:36
by Andypittcov
kingfinn wrote:Andypittcov wrote:Kingfinn I would say yes if you stick around after being threatened your looking for trouble. Why do you think we have this 'fight or flight' built into us, it's so we can effin do one if we sense danger, therefore if you anticipate voilence but stand your ground( or stay in the pub) your clearly choosing the fight option. I ain't being soft just telling it how it is.
Thats not how it is, why should a trained fighter leave the pub when threatened. If you were in that situation and left the pub because you were going to get a kick in thats self preservation and sensible, if you can take the other guy out if he causes trouble then why leave? Its that type off attitude which has allowed thugs and bullies to become dominant in the UK, people run scared instead of showing some balls. If you went over to the guy or eyeballed him thats looking for trouble, not leaving is called standing your ground.
if someone was likely to stab or shoot me i would consider leaving but if it was just some normal thug i would just carry on about my normal business, if they then want to come over and confront me and therefore get their arses handed to them, then more fool them, im sure next time they think about causing trouble with someone who cant fight they will think twice remmbering the pain inflicted on them during a wrath of Finn production.
Bet you chisora will think twice before being so menacing.
Don't assume walking away is a sign of weakness. The complete opposite is the truth. People don't just walk away to prevent themselves getting a kick in, some might and I don't blame them but some walk away to prevent going to prison, there's plenty of life destroying risk involved with fighting in pubs and absolutely eff all to be gained. That's the way i see it these days anyway.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 17:12
by Finn
Andypittcov wrote:kingfinn wrote:Andypittcov wrote:Kingfinn I would say yes if you stick around after being threatened your looking for trouble. Why do you think we have this 'fight or flight' built into us, it's so we can effin do one if we sense danger, therefore if you anticipate voilence but stand your ground( or stay in the pub) your clearly choosing the fight option. I ain't being soft just telling it how it is.
Thats not how it is, why should a trained fighter leave the pub when threatened. If you were in that situation and left the pub because you were going to get a kick in thats self preservation and sensible, if you can take the other guy out if he causes trouble then why leave? Its that type off attitude which has allowed thugs and bullies to become dominant in the UK, people run scared instead of showing some balls. If you went over to the guy or eyeballed him thats looking for trouble, not leaving is called standing your ground.
if someone was likely to stab or shoot me i would consider leaving but if it was just some normal thug i would just carry on about my normal business, if they then want to come over and confront me and therefore get their arses handed to them, then more fool them, im sure next time they think about causing trouble with someone who cant fight they will think twice remmbering the pain inflicted on them during a wrath of Finn production.
Bet you chisora will think twice before being so menacing.
Don't assume walking away is a sign of weakness. The complete opposite is the truth. People don't just walk away to prevent themselves getting a kick in, some might and I don't blame them but some walk away to prevent going to prison, there's plenty of life destroying risk involved with fighting in pubs and absolutely eff all to be gained. That's the way i see it these days anyway.
The real men walk away speech is something people who get scared say to make themselves feel better.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 17:37
by Andypittcov
You have to be scared of something to be filling someone in who you perceive as threatening.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 17:47
by Pat Butcher
Andypittcov wrote:Pat Butcher wrote:Andypittcov wrote:Kingfinn I would say yes if you stick around after being threatened your looking for trouble. Why do you think we have this 'fight or flight' built into us, it's so we can effin do one if we sense danger, therefore if you anticipate voilence but stand your ground( or stay in the pub) your clearly choosing the fight option. I ain't being soft just telling it how it is.
Or you chose not to run away from bullies
It's got eff all to do with running away
I know. Just as standing your ground isn't "clearly choosing to fight", it could be simply standing up to a bully or not letting a bully get their own way.
Leaving or walking away also isn't necessarily running away (even though it is sometimes), in some situations it is the most sensible option. In the Haye - Chisora case I'm glad the bully got his just rewards and as someone has already said he just might think twice next time he acts the big hard man (I doubt it though cos he is clearly a cock)
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 17:56
by jessi
Haye done exactly what I would of done, he stood up to a bully, he landed a couple on him before he got head butted or punched himself, he then got out of there at the right time. I don't blame haye one little bit, I hope the fight between them will happen soon, and although chisora done well the other night I'd still pick haye to get him out of there before the 10th round
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 18:09
by Andypittcov
Pat Butcher wrote:Andypittcov wrote:Pat Butcher wrote:
Or you chose not to run away from bullies
It's got eff all to do with running away
I know. Just as standing your ground isn't "clearly choosing to fight", it could be simply standing up to a bully or not letting a bully get their own way.
Leaving or walking away also isn't necessarily running away (even though it is sometimes), in some situations it is the most sensible option. In the Haye - Chisora case I'm glad the bully got his just rewards and as someone has already said he just might think twice next time he acts the big hard man (I doubt it though cos he is clearly a cock)
Well if you stand your ground without choosing to fight your playing abit of a silly game to be fair.
As for Haye-Chisora, I agree with the bloke above, nobby I think it was who said that maybe haye was looking to prove himself with all the talk of running and bad toes etc.
Ain't backing up chisora in anyway though he was looking for it all weekend and he finally found it.
I think Haye would win convincingly in the ring.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 19:09
by loaded_gloves
There is no way Haye 'dropped' Chisora - the footage I saw is very clear. He smacks him bareknuckle square on the jaw without budging him, so grabs him round the back of the neck with both hands and drags him to the floor. Hardly a knockdown.
Wonder what condition Haye would be in after a fight with Vitali Klitschko. Unable to fight at a post fight press conference, that's for sure.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 22 Feb 2012, 20:42
by jamesmcdonnell
Haye didn't even drop Don Charles let alone Chisora. I doubt he would knock him out in a fight either. Chisora has a serious chin on him, and at heavyweight, Haye doesn't have the one punch KO power he had at cruiserweight.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 04:25
by yiddo14
loaded_gloves wrote:There is no way Haye 'dropped' Chisora - the footage I saw is very clear. He smacks him bareknuckle square on the jaw without budging him, so grabs him round the back of the neck with both hands and drags him to the floor. Hardly a knockdown.
Wonder what condition Haye would be in after a fight with Vitali Klitschko. Unable to fight at a post fight press conference, that's for sure.
Haye was barely hit by the younger, faster, better Klitschko. If he chose to, adopting the negative tactics he used against Wlad, then Haye could go through 12 rounds with the ambling Vitali chasing him and not laying anything if note.
I think the big brother is there for the taking anyway. Haye could beat him.
As for Del boy? Hasn't he been dropped heavily in sparring a few times, all coming from body shots? Haye would bust him up like he did Mormeck. Fury had Chisora hanging on too and he is hardly a big puncher. It looks like he has a good chin but he hasn't shipped many from big punchers yet. Vitali didn't land much with any meat behind it.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 04:41
by jamesmcdonnell
What rot! When did Fury have Chisora 'hanging on!'
Chisora ain't that much cop, but he's clearly got a good chin.
I've no doubt Haye could stop him, from accumulation of shots, but I don't see him just bombing him out of there.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 04:55
by stujones
Its amazing, late last year when Klitchsko put on a clinic against Adamek - displaying excellent hand speed and control people were hailing him as "as good as ever" and clearly the true champion (and better than his brother).
Now its Chisora was fighting the inferior Klitchsko and he's been that way for a while.
Vitali suffered a serious injury and fought with it for 11 rounds. That was going to have a HUGE HUGE bearing on his performance..... don't count him as "finished goods" just yet.
He was poor yes, but he was handicapped also.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 05:35
by sharpei_louis
stujones wrote:Its amazing, late last year when Klitchsko put on a clinic against Adamek - displaying excellent hand speed and control people were hailing him as "as good as ever" and clearly the true champion (and better than his brother).
Now its Chisora was fighting the inferior Klitchsko and he's been that way for a while.
Vitali suffered a serious injury and fought with it for 11 rounds. That was going to have a HUGE HUGE bearing on his performance..... don't count him as "finished goods" just yet.
He was poor yes, but he was handicapped also.
Agreed, there has been no correlation made between Chisora's apparently above standard performance and Vitali's injury yet. It's clear they a linked.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 05:44
by leforge
stujones wrote:Its amazing, late last year when Klitchsko put on a clinic against Adamek - displaying excellent hand speed and control people were hailing him as "as good as ever" and clearly the true champion (and better than his brother).
Now its Chisora was fighting the inferior Klitchsko and he's been that way for a while.
Vitali suffered a serious injury and fought with it for 11 rounds. That was going to have a HUGE HUGE bearing on his performance..... don't count him as "finished goods" just yet.
He was poor yes, but he was handicapped also.
Agree with this.
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 05:50
by Old bones Ian
What i find funny, is that David Haye had to have 5 or 6 security guys with him when he returned home, they were all big blokes. Did he really need that? He really does live in a bit of a fantasy land sometimes.
I used to really like the bloke, but he's brought himself into the gutter with his recent behavior. It makes him look like a spoily kid, with no-one willing to say to him 'no' .
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 05:57
by Tomasino
kingfinn wrote:Andypittcov wrote:Kingfinn I would say yes if you stick around after being threatened your looking for trouble. Why do you think we have this 'fight or flight' built into us, it's so we can effin do one if we sense danger, therefore if you anticipate voilence but stand your ground( or stay in the pub) your clearly choosing the fight option. I ain't being soft just telling it how it is.
Thats not how it is, why should a trained fighter leave the pub when threatened. If you were in that situation and left the pub because you were going to get a kick in thats self preservation and sensible, if you can take the other guy out if he causes trouble then why leave? Its that type off attitude which has allowed thugs and bullies to become dominant in the UK, people run scared instead of showing some balls. If you went over to the guy or eyeballed him thats looking for trouble, not leaving is called standing your ground.
with someone who cant fight they will think twice remmbering the pain inflicted on them during a wrath of Finn production.
Bet you chisora will think twice before being so menacing.
That post shows you up as an almost complete idiot. Do you ever leave your PC, "kingfinn"? Perhaps you have yet to leave school?
Re: David Haye Statement
Posted: 23 Feb 2012, 06:06
by yiddo14
jamesmcdonnell wrote:What rot! When did Fury have Chisora 'hanging on!'
Chisora ain't that much cop, but he's clearly got a good chin.
I've no doubt Haye could stop him, from accumulation of shots, but I don't see him just bombing him out of there.
Chisora was hanging on against Fury. It was due to accumulation of shots but he was hanging on a couple of times.
As for Vitali, I thought he looked crap against Kingpin and Sosnowski. Adamek looked like a little boy against him such was the size difference and the Pole had almost lost to Grant not too long before.
I have had little brother as number 1 for yonks. Always thought Vitali was the "easier" fight for Haye.
He is there for the taking I tells ya!
