Page 4 of 4
Re: Greatest Achievements of the 1980s
Posted: 05 Mar 2012, 14:46
by Ambling Alp
Hard to believe that I have the "audacity" to refute your brilliant, unbiased points.
Re: Greatest Achievements of the 1980s
Posted: 05 Mar 2012, 16:12
by SaadOffTheDeck
Ambling Alp wrote:Hard to believe that I have the "audacity" to refute your brilliant, unbiased points.
You invent your own arguments as you go along. Even now, when it was over you just can't get over it. You're one sad little dude.
Re: Greatest Achievements of the 1980s
Posted: 06 Mar 2012, 07:25
by Ezzard
Boilermaker wrote:Seamus wrote:I believe Ferdie Pacheco thought Leonard won in Montreal, and there were some sportswriters who were also of that opinion.
When the decision was announced, there was doubt everywhere as to who would win (and not just like nowadays where you presume one or two judges were in the pocket). It could have fairly gone either way. I thought Duran shaded it (at the time), even though I wanted Leonard to win.
I wanted leonard to win too. I thought it was very close. When I watched it again I realised it wasn't that close. Not to say that Leonard didn't fight him all the way, just that Duran clearly won more rounds and was in control.
Same with the Hagler fight. I thought Leonard won easily, when I watched it back I realised it was a very close fight, though I still think Ray won it.
Duran was simply not as effective at 147 than he was at 135. This is a disadvantage, anything else is just partisanship.
Re: Greatest Achievements of the 1980s
Posted: 06 Mar 2012, 09:45
by SaadOffTheDeck
Ezzard wrote:Boilermaker wrote:Seamus wrote:I believe Ferdie Pacheco thought Leonard won in Montreal, and there were some sportswriters who were also of that opinion.
When the decision was announced, there was doubt everywhere as to who would win (and not just like nowadays where you presume one or two judges were in the pocket). It could have fairly gone either way. I thought Duran shaded it (at the time), even though I wanted Leonard to win.
I wanted leonard to win too. I thought it was very close. When I watched it again I realised it wasn't that close. Not to say that Leonard didn't fight him all the way, just that Duran clearly won more rounds and was in control.
Same with the Hagler fight. I thought Leonard won easily, when I watched it back I realised it was a very close fight, though I still think Ray won it.
Duran was simply not as effective at 147 than he was at 135. This is a disadvantage, anything else is just partisanship.
I don't know man, I think Duran was at his absolute best against Palomino & Leonard.
Re: Greatest Achievements of the 1980s
Posted: 06 Mar 2012, 15:00
by Seamus
At 135, Duran sometimes fought like he had total disdain for defense. Because of that I've wondered sometimes what would have happened if he faced a LW with one punch knockout power.
Re: Greatest Achievements of the 1980s
Posted: 06 Mar 2012, 20:20
by scallum
SRL over Hagler is the top one for the 80s for me. I was so afraid for SRL b4 the fight but he showed true grit to pull off the victory
Re: Greatest Achievements of the 1980s
Posted: 15 Mar 2012, 11:07
by Ezzard
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Ezzard wrote:Boilermaker wrote:
When the decision was announced, there was doubt everywhere as to who would win (and not just like nowadays where you presume one or two judges were in the pocket). It could have fairly gone either way. I thought Duran shaded it (at the time), even though I wanted Leonard to win.
I wanted leonard to win too. I thought it was very close. When I watched it again I realised it wasn't that close. Not to say that Leonard didn't fight him all the way, just that Duran clearly won more rounds and was in control.
Same with the Hagler fight. I thought Leonard won easily, when I watched it back I realised it was a very close fight, though I still think Ray won it.
Duran was simply not as effective at 147 than he was at 135. This is a disadvantage, anything else is just partisanship.
I don't know man, I think Duran was at his absolute best against Palomino & Leonard.
Apologies for the delay, mate.
Thing is Duran tapped into a whole skill set that he didn’t seem to need at 135.
Everything in relative terms becomes more difficult. Your power, strength, durability, height, reach are all eroded as you move up. These are hard things to overcome, especially for aggressive fighters, less so for more polished boxers.
I guess that’s what this comes down to for me. He was likely at his best for DeJesus where he had all the physical gifts and the showed off the skills too.
Re: Greatest Achievements of the 1980s
Posted: 15 Mar 2012, 13:00
by Counter-puncher
i lean towards your view, Ezz, Duran vs Palomino and SRL was clearly more technically-polished, but for me the extra physicality of the Duran who beat Dejesus made him
terrifying inm a way that more than compensated for the slight skills deficit compared to his later self.
Re: Greatest Achievements of the 1980s
Posted: 15 Mar 2012, 13:29
by Ezzard
Or put it like this. If Duran hadn’t developed those skills, his barnstorming, balls-out style would have not have been enough at welterweight. Not against Ray and not necessarily against all the others either.
Re: Greatest Achievements of the 1980s
Posted: 15 Mar 2012, 14:11
by SaadOffTheDeck
His defense was better as he moved up in weight and I wouldn't say he was more physical against DeJesus, Palomino & Leonard were just able to stand up to it.
Re: Greatest Achievements of the 1980s
Posted: 15 Mar 2012, 14:17
by Ezzard
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:His defense was better as he moved up in weight and I wouldn't say he was more physical against DeJesus, Palomino & Leonard were just able to stand up to it.
I agree. He had to develop his other skills to make up for the fact he was fighting bigger men. Only a few can do this. And the ones usually most successful are the boxer types.
Duran, Armstrong and Holyfield are pretty distinguished for their achievements. Chavez too, but to a lesser extent. Also, pretty amazing that Hearns could bounce guys off the canvas as he moved up in weight.
Re: Greatest Achievements of the 1980s
Posted: 14 Aug 2013, 17:13
by Nile4000
Ezzard wrote:Here is my list of the greatest achievements of the 1980s. My criteria is quality of opponent; size disparity (moving up from your best weight counts for you, beating someone who moves up tempers your win a little); the margin of victory; the condition of the two fighters… I gave the draws to the moral victors.
I made a stab at the order, hopefully they are all from the 80s, but I reserve the right to have balls’d it up…
Roberto Duran – Ray Leonard
Ray Leonard – Marvin Hagler
Jeff Fenech – Azumah Nelson
Roberto Duran – Iran Barkley
Salvador Sanchez – Wilfredo Gomez
Ray Leonard – Thomas Hearns
Thomas Hearns – Pipino Cuevas
Michael Nunn – Sumbu Kalambay
Salvador Sanchez – Azumah Nelson
Marvin Hagler – Thomas Hearns
Michael Spinks – Larry Holmes
Lloyd Honeyghan – Donald Curry
Julio Cesar Chavez – Edwin Rosario
Thomas Hearns – Ray Leonard
Michael Spinks – Dwight Qawi
Chavez was just too strong for Rosario, and that was the fight right there.