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Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 03 Mar 2016, 17:55
by pound per pound
Ezzard wrote:Middleweights
March 1975_____________May 1994_____________January 2001______________2004 Ring Yearbook
1.Stanley Ketchel________1.Sugar Ray Robinson____1.Harry Greb______________1.Harry Greb
2.Sugar Ray Robinson_____2.Carlos Monzon________2.Sugar Ray Robinson_______2.Sugar Ray Robinson
3.Harry Greb____________3.Harry Greb___________ 3.Carlos Monzon___________3.Carlos Monzon
4.Mickey Walker_________4.Stanley Ketchel_______4.Marvin Hagler____________4.Marvin Hagler
5.Billy Papke____________5.Marvin Hagler_________5.Jake LaMotta____________5.Jake LaMotta
6.Tony Zale__________________________________6.Charley Burley____________6.Charley Burley
7.Dick Tiger__________________________________7.Tiger Flowers____________7.Tiger Flowers
8.Tommy Ryan________________________________8.Stanley Ketchel__________8.Stanley Ketchel
9.Emile Griffith________________________________9.Mickey Walker___________ 9.Mickey Walker
10.Les Darcy_________________________________10.Billy Conn______________10.Billy Conn
____________________________________________11.Marcel Cerdan__________11.Marcel Cerdan
____________________________________________12.Tony Zale______________12.Tony Zale
____________________________________________13.Emile Griffith____________13.Emile Griffith
____________________________________________14.Dick Tiger______________14.Dick Tiger
____________________________________________15.Gene Fullmer____________15.Gene Fullmer
____________________________________________16.Bernard Hopkins__________16.Rodrigo Valdez
____________________________________________17.Rodrigo Valdez__________17.Bob Fitzsimmons
____________________________________________18.Bob Fitzsimmons_________18.Tommy Ryan
____________________________________________19.Tommy Ryan____________19.Joey Giardello
____________________________________________20.Joey Giardello___________20.Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
I like the 2001 list the best. De you think GGG has done enough to make the top 20?
I'd pick him to clean up from #13-20 for the most part.
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 04 Mar 2016, 10:11
by Crease
The Middleweights is the most difficult weight division to rate in my opinion. To my mind - Robinson, Monzon & Marvellous Marvin definitely have to the three outstanding candidates and 100% deserve their place in the top 10.
Following on from that, my train of thought often leads me to Bob Fitzsimmons - mainly because he went on to win the World Heavyweight title and only one other guy through history has ever done that (Roy Jones Jr, who I tend to rate as a Super Middleweight) - as such, that mark of distinction tends to guarantee him a place in my top ten.
I also always tend to give a place in my top 10 Middleweights to Jake LaMotta. I accept that he was inconsistent throughout his career, but he was THE MAN to take Robinson's unbeaten record, that's a massive accomplishment - and following that he had wins over Fritzie Zivic (x3) Jose Basora (x2) and Tommy Bell (x3) - they tend to weight heavily in his favour and is just enough for me to give him a place in my top 10.
Lastly, this my be a bit of an odd one for many boxing enthusiasts, as this guy is overlooked a lot of the time in this weight class but I'm putting in Bernard Hopkins. Clearly he's the most recent of the fighters that I've named, but Bernard's achievements from 1994-2005 for absolutely outstanding and is a credit to our sport.
Bernard sought out the best fighters of his time and beat them. He achieved a 20-fight unbeaten streak since winning his first World Title and unified all four World Titles in his division (a feat not yet matched in any weight class).
For me, it's a thumbs up for Bernard. After that the other 4 spots are up for grabs.
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 04 Mar 2016, 11:20
by Ambling Alp II
My biggest problem with Hopkins is competition. Yes he held the title for a long time and was consistent. He didn't duck anybody, but really who was there to duck? Obviously not his fault, but how do we know he would have beat a great middleweight when he never beat anyone that was remotely close to being great a t middleweight?
You could really say the same about Hagler but he usually (not always) looked better.
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 05 Mar 2016, 15:41
by BoxBuzz
klompton wrote:BoxBuzz wrote:Seamus wrote:I actually thought Valdes deserved the decision in the 1st bout with Monzon. He came right back from the knockdown in the 14th and pressured Monzon throughout the last round. After the 6th I felt he took 7 of the last 9.
IN both fights, it was Valdes that was taking the far bigger beating. It was clear which fighter you would want to have been at the fights end. One being in a far bigger world of hurt than the other.
Valdez was brave and good, and Monzon was just a better fighter.
He was after ducking his man for 3 yrs and only signing when his power hand was mangled in an accident. Even then he barely eeked out decisions in both contests. It was clear that Valdez was further gone than Monzon by that point. 3 years earlier that fight is a nightmare for Monzon and he knew it. You cant watch Valdez knock Briscoe clear across the ring in 73 with one punch and then watch Monzon avoid any engagements with the same man and not realize why he didnt want that fight and instead cherry picked easier opponents.
There was no avoidance.......the timing simply was what it was.....no reason to turn it into drama or conspiracy. But it is more interesting to spin it that way. Maybe you could write a book?
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 05 Mar 2016, 15:59
by klompton
Ive got one under my belt and two more on the way. Seeing as how you have zero and you deem him worthy of a book (i dont) maybe you could...
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 05 Mar 2016, 17:46
by Seamus
Who are your other two going to be about ?
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 05 Mar 2016, 19:04
by klompton
Seamus wrote:Who are your other two going to be about ?
One is about the period of the middleweight division between Ketchels death and Greb. The other is about the Harry Wills-Jack Dempsey situation.
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 05 Mar 2016, 19:30
by Seamus
I still haven't seen your book about Greb but I certainly hope to in the future. I'm amazed that you actually got a book published with 716 pages. Reason being, I know several authors and editors have sometimes chopped off a 100 or more pages.
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 05 Mar 2016, 20:22
by klompton
Seamus wrote:I still haven't seen your book about Greb but I certainly hope to in the future. I'm amazed that you actually got a book published with 716 pages. Reason being, I know several authors and editors have sometimes chopped off a 100 or more pages.
I started my own publishing company and self published to keep it totally under my control. I didnt want anything cut out, photos or text. I could have used an editor but I did the best I could and never made any claims to being a great writer but my research is second to none and I deal with subject in a fair and even handed manner, allowing the facts to tell the story and let the reader draw their own conclusions and it seems to be popular with the people who have purchased it im happy to say.
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 06 Mar 2016, 14:00
by BoxBuzz
klompton wrote:Ive got one under my belt and two more on the way. Seeing as how you have zero and you deem him worthy of a book (i dont) maybe you could...
Nah....neither of us should waste the time on a scumbag......keep going with the folks with ethics,
I was just kidding with you, as you are a bona fide author......I'll let you know in advance the next time I employ humor in our discussions.
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 06 Mar 2016, 14:23
by klompton
Im serious. You should write a book on him. Why not?
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 06 Mar 2016, 15:58
by Giancarlo
BoxBuzz wrote:klompton wrote:Ive got one under my belt and two more on the way. Seeing as how you have zero and you deem him worthy of a book (i dont) maybe you could...
Nah....neither of us should waste the time on a scumbag......keep going with the folks with ethics,
I was just kidding with you, as you are a bona fide author......I'll let you know in advance the next time I employ humor in our discussions.
Is Bazza still alive?
Maybe you could get him on board for the book project.
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 07 Mar 2016, 18:10
by BoxBuzz
klompton wrote:Im serious. You should write a book on him. Why not?
Because as good a fighter as I think he was, I don't want to in anyway...(other than my banterings here about his skill), do anything to give his life any sort of positive reinforcement. Not sure a spotlight on his life would do much to make the world a better place.
Greb is a character worth sorting out.
Monzon simply does not deserve such review purely on a human basis.
But his brutal nature is just what people would be most interested in I suppose. Look at the interest in a guy like OJ.
Oh yeah, and who'd want to wade through my syntax to get to the story in the first place? lol.
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 07 Mar 2016, 18:12
by BoxBuzz
Giancarlo wrote:BoxBuzz wrote:klompton wrote:Ive got one under my belt and two more on the way. Seeing as how you have zero and you deem him worthy of a book (i dont) maybe you could...
Nah....neither of us should waste the time on a scumbag......keep going with the folks with ethics,
I was just kidding with you, as you are a bona fide author......I'll let you know in advance the next time I employ humor in our discussions.
Is Bazza still alive?
Maybe you could get him on board for the book project.
Maybe make a coffee table book out of the project?
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 08 Mar 2016, 19:01
by elmersalsa
Re: The Ring Middleweight All-Time Rankings
Posted: 19 Apr 2016, 07:01
by Keko
Harry Greb is sure the best MW all time!
Ketchell,Walker ,Robinson,Monzon ,Hagler are the top class in the category!
