BoxRec

Riddick Blowe wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Price would have a slim chance, but the liklihood is, that like everyone else out there, he would find it nigh on impossible to actually land anything significant without getting his head boxed off repeatedly.

Why do you say this? Price has the size advantages, is deceptively fast and can unload some heavy artillery when he is on the offensive. Wlad on the other hand doesn't throw enough to box anyone's head off repeatedly. Vs Price he probably wouldn't even dare bring his right hand over. Price might need to take some chances to get Wlad's respect, but once he does that Wlad would shut up shop and try and win one of his terrible boring decisions without taking chances.

Also, people talk about the Haye fight as a domination from Klitschko and he did win nearly all the rounds, but every round was won pretty much on ring generalship. How else did Haye manage to hardly get hit at all during the fight? Wlad was poor, but Haye was even worse. And while Haye was boxing on the back foot, he was never more than four feet away from Wlad the whole fight, and STILL Wlad was shit scared to open up. How scared would he be against a bigger guy with superior power than Haye.

Oh yeah, Wlad got rocked by a slow motion blob of shit called Mariusz Wach in his last fight. So please people don't try and tell me Price isn't capable of that.

When is Price going to face a Heavyweight with a pulse?

bugs wrote: Both Haye and Wlad were crap in their fight, both fighting with spoiler tactics, but at the end of the day Haye was not out muscled or out fought, Wlad was simply the slightly better of two poor fighters in the ring which gave him most rounds by a slim margin in each round, so saying Haye could not compete on any level is crap, they both competed, just poorly. I don't see how their fight leads to the conclusion that Wlad is that much better then Haye, he could barely hit him and Haye dropped to the floor when Wlad did his usual lean on and tire out opponent bullshit. I would like ot see a rematch because I dont see it as a foregone conclusion, but I realise it would again be a stinker, style make fights . . .

Heh, I just realised that you wrote pretty much exactly what I did in your post prior to mine.

elephant man, he is clearly struggling to find opponents. I would have liked him to get Kevin Johnson instead of Fury because Kevin is durable and would have given Price rounds.

When he does step it up, he will deliver in style, I am very confident of that.

Andre Ward - not a heavy weight I know, but that's thinking outside of the box. In another year Price would take the fading Vitali. The punching power is on the wain there, I mean how did he ever let Shannon Briggs last the distance? Wlad isn't really touchable though.

Seth Mitchell stands a chance against Wlad with his punching power, he'd have to be quick though as i don't think his chin would hold up for long.

danconnollyeire wrote:

SamWise72 wrote:Haye??? You must buy into the toe story to a significant extent, I guess. Haye couldn't get near him without putting his chin on the line, and he wasn't prepared to do that. He's a blown up cruiser, and he can't compete with someone that size who has any skills. It would be interesting to see what happens if he tries to stick one on either Klitschko (he made no attempt in the first fight), but I'd see him getting Carl Thompsoned again.

This is coming from an 'I hate Haye's personality' perspective. I think he's a cock but he is world class. He has the knowledge, skill, power, speed timing to make him definet number 3. He beats Price and Fury right now. He can cope with size and he can hit and run. Look at Valuev. And Price is chinny. So hit and run for long enough and he could catch him and put him down

I'm not arguing that Haye would lose to Price, I'm saying he has no chance against Klitschko without a change of attitude. I think at this point a Haye/Price fight could go either way. I'm not buying into the "glass chin" argument til I see Price get hit hard as a pro, but I'm certain that either man could hurt the other. With experience, though, it ought to be an easy fight for Price; when the size difference is so big, either the big guy has to be as bad as Valuev, or the little guy as good as Holyfield for it to be competitive. Haye is no Holyfield, and Price is far better than Valuev; all he needs to do is stay organised and jab from the outside; Wlad did it with ease, and Price is both taller, and hits harder.

My point was that Haye thought he could in-and-out against Wlad the way he did against Valuev. He couldn't, his only chance would be to get inside and throw some leather, and he wouldn't. I don't see anything being different in a rematch. Haye is no Tyson or Holyfield or Frazier; he's a blown up cruiser who has overachieved. I've enjoyed watching him most of the time, even the Valuev fight was impressive tactically, but he should always get schooled by a world class proper heavyweight with a height advantage.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

crusader wrote:Independent of what occurs in a match between them, what would change your opinion? If your current opinion is predicated on factors that you've discerned while observing each boxer compete, it should also be amenable to change given that such factors may not be discerned in future bouts.

Can you note bouts in which Povetkin displayed the abilities that would supposedly enable him to overcome Klitschko?

OK, for me it's all about Povetkin.... I honestly think that the best of Povetkin beats the best of Wlad.

What would convince me pre fight that he wouldn't win?

If Povetkin comes in in terrible, he loses, simple as that.

In answer to your question about abilities... Styles make fights and Povetkin has the right amount of movement, hand speed combinations and most importantly, accuracy to get the job done. Not many fighters land more than one punch on Wlad at a time and IMHO Povetkin will land several.

The key to the win is that when Povetkin has a fighter hurt, he doesn't lose his head and get too close, which would allow Wlad to hold. Povetkin backs off a little and picks his spots.

Is that enough or do you want more?

I'd like to know when Povetkin has shown those abilities to an extent that enables him to defeat Wlad. I cannot recall the last time when he widely impressed, but I can recall when he was rocked several times and hit repeatedly in his controversial win over Huck. I can also recall when he was battered around the ring by a post-prime Chagaev.

You laud Povetkin's abilities, but he's recently struggled against opponents much worse than Wlad. Your one-sided analysis considers only Povetkin's supposed strengths, while ignoring the potential impact of Wlad's superior power, jab, size, defense, and speed. Your prediction is also based partially on how Povetkin may react when Wlad is hurt, but what makes it probable that the latter gets seriously hurt by someone who hasn't shown meaningful power in years? Haye and Wach landed flush on Wlad, yet he was never in major trouble, and I doubt that Povetkin hits harder than them or will hit Wlad enough to wear him out.

I understand that you've long touted Povetkin, but your failure to adjust your opinion in the light of his recent bouts suggests intransigence, not a position based on good reasoning and the weighing of evidence.

crusader wrote:
I understand that you've long touted Povetkin, but your failure to adjust your opinion in the light of his recent bouts suggests intransigence, not a position based on good reasoning and the weighing of evidence.

politely put. Keith, your hard-on for Povetkin is mental, mate.

no one can beat him - end of discussion.
big hopes for price but wait til he step's up in class from the domestic scene to someone in top 15/10

i say again.....helenius!

rhino222 wrote:i say again.....helenius!

I just don't see it mate, he doesn't have the workrate. His power is just above average so i can't see him catching Wlad cold

crusader wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

crusader wrote:Independent of what occurs in a match between them, what would change your opinion? If your current opinion is predicated on factors that you've discerned while observing each boxer compete, it should also be amenable to change given that such factors may not be discerned in future bouts.

Can you note bouts in which Povetkin displayed the abilities that would supposedly enable him to overcome Klitschko?

OK, for me it's all about Povetkin.... I honestly think that the best of Povetkin beats the best of Wlad.

What would convince me pre fight that he wouldn't win?

If Povetkin comes in in terrible, he loses, simple as that.

In answer to your question about abilities... Styles make fights and Povetkin has the right amount of movement, hand speed combinations and most importantly, accuracy to get the job done. Not many fighters land more than one punch on Wlad at a time and IMHO Povetkin will land several.

The key to the win is that when Povetkin has a fighter hurt, he doesn't lose his head and get too close, which would allow Wlad to hold. Povetkin backs off a little and picks his spots.

Is that enough or do you want more?

I'd like to know when Povetkin has shown those abilities to an extent that enables him to defeat Wlad. I cannot recall the last time when he widely impressed, but I can recall when he was rocked several times and hit repeatedly in his controversial win over Huck. I can also recall when he was battered around the ring by a post-prime Chagaev.

You laud Povetkin's abilities, but he's recently struggled against opponents much worse than Wlad. Your one-sided analysis considers only Povetkin's supposed strengths, while ignoring the potential impact of Wlad's superior power, jab, size, defense, and speed. Your prediction is also based partially on how Povetkin may react when Wlad is hurt, but what makes it probable that the latter gets seriously hurt by someone who hasn't shown meaningful power in years? Haye and Wach landed flush on Wlad, yet he was never in major trouble, and I doubt that Povetkin hits harder than them or will hit Wlad enough to wear him out.

I understand that you've long touted Povetkin, but your failure to adjust your opinion in the light of his recent bouts suggests intransigence, not a position based on good reasoning and the weighing of evidence.

He has shown flashes of the skills I mention is all of his fights and I'm the first to admit he didn't look great in some of his fights. I firmly beleive that he will be in much better shape when he fights Klitschko - if he's not, he will lose.

As far as power is concerned, you don't need to have massive punching power to hust Wlad, you just need to land cleanly. If Povetkin lands two or three clean shots, he'll hurt Wlad and follow up with what is needed to finish the job.

As far as adjusting my opinion goes, I don't need to. As I said, Povetkin, in shape, is not the Povetkin of late.

If you don't agree, then so be it. We will find out when Wlad loses his next fight to Povetkin.

Riddick Blowe wrote:
elephant man, he is clearly struggling to find opponents. I would have liked him to get Kevin Johnson instead of Fury because Kevin is durable and would have given Price rounds.

When he does step it up, he will deliver in style, I am very confident of that.

Yes, but right now he hasn't fought anywhere near the level of even the "utter dross" Wlad has been fighting over the past few years. You're letting your dislike for Wlad and Price favourtism cloud your judgement. Lets see Price in with some real tests before saying he could beat Wlad IMO.

Old bones Ian wrote:Seth Mitchell stands a chance against Wlad with his punching power, he'd have to be quick though as i don't think his chin would hold up for long.

or maybe not eh!

You're correct about the last part, though.