Bowe Vs. Tyson

[Rover]

Keith, I think he was at his peak. Maybe he chose not to train properly. But it wasn't like say Holmes who couldn't be 10 years younger no matter how focused he was.

Exactly. With Bowe against Golota, you could tell how declined he was by his speech. That had nothing to do with poor training habits. HBO played Bowe from after the first Holyfield fight to after the second Golota fight on its Legendary Nights series in 2003; stark difference.

[keithmoonhangover]

Keith, I think he was at his peak. Maybe he chose not to train properly. But it wasn't like say Holmes who couldn't be 10 years younger no matter how focused he was.

To me, someone is at their peak, when they are physically and mentally at the absolute best, hence the term peak.

Before the Douglas fight, Tyson was not at his physical and mental best, therefore, he was not at his peak.

[keithmoonhangover]

Keith, I think he was at his peak. Maybe he chose not to train properly. But it wasn't like say Holmes who couldn't be 10 years younger no matter how focused he was.

To me, someone is at their peak, when they are physically and mentally at the absolute best, hence the term peak.

Before the Douglas fight, Tyson was not at his physical and mental best, therefore, he was not at his peak.

Show me one fighter in history who managed to combine his absolute physical and mental peak one time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJUzl0aFHZw

[keithmoonhangover]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJUzl0aFHZw

Yes, I'm sure Ali never had any mental distractions in November 1966, nothing at all like being classified 1A and waiting to be drafted for instance.

Plenty of fighters have a great training camp, have a great relationship with their trainer and are mentally right for a fight. It happens all the time.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Williams was a punching bag that night, I'd rate that as the most overrated performance in history. Obviously Ali was in top form, but he was facing a man with a bullet in him. I thought for sure that was a link to hearns/Duran.

[BoxBuzz]

Saad, you might want to review Cleveland's fights before and after this fight. He wasn't quite the poster child for disabilities that some have wanted to proclaim. I am a rehab specialist...and I can tell you first hand that people can bounce back dramatically from some pretty amazing physical compromises. And Cleveland was not carrying a cane wearing shades and asking for a handout. He went to work, and turned in some not so shabby performances in and around this time. (As did Willie Pep after his debacle.)

Come to think of it, Sonny's performance directly after the first fight with Clay is pretty informative as well. Both in showing Sonny's remarkable abilities, AND giving reason as to why he could never likely beat Ali prime vs prime.

I think Cleveland's "disability" may be what's been way over rated, especially of late.

But you are right about Ali being in top shape at that moment.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Cleveland was a gunshot victim, if Ali's career wasn't filled with so many stirring performances against fighters that shouldn't have been under the care of a surgeon I would hold it in higher regard. It's the brilliance of Muhammad's career that renders that often cited performance so vastly overrated.

[JLP]

Bowe. He's up there with the biggest wastes of talent of the last 25 years but when he was on he was something special. More special than Tyson.