BoxRec

The Dark Destroyer wrote:

tallsdav wrote:course its not silly to want to see it, its silly to say its still an issue when its been publicly addressed.

its like saying a car thats had a new engine because the old engine was knackered is still going to have problems.

Read the Jones comment again, its in relation to the 'only need to rock up with a heart and some fight' kind of comments, he showed that, he just wasnt as fit as he should have been, he's addressed that, so we're told. so he can fight as he showed and now he has his stamina sorted.

would it help if i wrote in bullet points on here?!

How am I supposed to know what comments you're addressing in your mind? You didn't reply to anyone, and no-one said anything about only needing to rock up with a heart and some fight. If you understand that it's not silly for people to want to see that he's done the work why are you arguing with people about it? Saldivia is not a yard stick to measure his alleged improvements against, hopefully he has addressed his apparent short comings before the Jones fight, but until he's actually tested don't expect people to believe everything a fighter/trainer or a promoter has to say.

As for bullet points, before starting that perhaps learning about capitals would be a decent place to start.

in my mind? it was directly below the one posted, i didnt quote or use capitals because i'm on my phone. i'm not arguing either, its the internet!

ive only said saying his stamina is still questionable is silly as its been publicly hammered thats been addressed. yet until he goes 12 rounds that will always be the case, people will always suspect it. that just doesnt make sense to me.

seems a lot of hostility on here!

MachoMan09 wrote: It's always best to wait until the changes they have made are tested in the arena in which they most matter before making efficacy judgements.

now, there is a statement whose simplicity needs no further explanation

tallsdav wrote:

crusader wrote:

Oh I dunno, maybe it's down to the very public display that brook now has one of the most professional teams in boxing behind him. Bicep injury could be true, we will never know if its not but there's no doubting that brook has make significant changes since the Carson jones fight and addressed the issues he needed to. If Alexander doesn't turn up 100% fit and ready he will get beat easily, so maybe he wasn't going to be ready in time, his own picture from 8 weeks out didn't look like he was on point

Out of curiosity, who composes the team you mention, when did they start working with Brook, and how do you know that Alexander is impressed with the team? I'd also appreciate it if you posted the picture of Alexander that you're referring to.

Brook's only opponent since facing Jones 7 months ago was a mediocre fighter, and the fight went only three rounds, whereas Brook's trouble with Jones didn't start until roughly the fifth round. I don't think that good evidence can be extracted from that performance to support the claim that Brook has made significant changes that will translate into improved performances against top opponents like Alexander, and I don't think it is wise to assume that because Brook has made certain changes in training that he won't have stamina issues against top opponents who will push him and last rounds.

The claim that Alexander will lose unless he is 100% fit is unwarranted and based on nothing that either fighter has done inside the professional ring, and I doubt that Alexander agrees with the claim as you seem to assume he does. Also, if he decided not to fight because he's in relatively poor shape, that decision may reflect a concern about making weight and keeping his title, rather than a concern about losing to Brook.

That's some great extrapolation work you have done there!

Who composes these teams, i dont know. The team however is a lot more than just promoter/manager and trainer though. As for saying Alexander is impressed by the team, that wasnt me. here's the photo of Alexander 8 weeks out he put up on twitter, looking smooth there
https://twitter.com/DAlexandereal/statu ... 28/photo/1

The only kind of person who would think it not wise to assume Brook is now a better conditioned athlete than the when he faced Jones is one who has never stepped in a gym, has no appreciation of nutrition and doesn't wish to understand anymore about boxing than left, right and the promoters cut, surely thats not what you are, is it? By your comments you only go on what happens in a fight, not what's done through the training, the fight remember is the byproduct of the weeks/months/years of training. Brook addressed the issues from the Jones fight from all i've read and he looked great at the Saldivia weigh in, not just physically either, he looked to have made the weight easy compared to the Jones weigh in. What can be addressed and changed in 7 months? How about you undergo a 7 months intense training and nutrition programme backed by scientists and using a good coach to guide you through and then come back and tell us? Loads can be achieved in that time, i once put 1 INCH on my.... biceps in that time ;)
In short it sounds like you only understand what happens in the ring, thus you dont appreciate the changes he's made. Most in the game who are more than armchair fans will understand though.

Your last paragraph, any fighter at the top of their game going in to the ring not at 100% is likely to lose against another top fighter who is 100%. Hard work beats talent, when talent doesnt work hard. So i think it's a fair comment to say a less than 100% Alexander gets beat, because i understand how big a difference it makes.

Think outside the ring a little, there's more to boxing these days than just lacing up and throwing combos, bro.

Erm sorry what does this have to do with anything? Is there someone on the forum you're trying to pull?

Unless your in camp with Brook and Alexander you don't have a clue. You can't base it on how they look. Haye used to always look in good shape and lose steam, whereas Calazaghe's physique wasn't that of a Greek God but his stamina was phenmonial. Brook knocked his last opponant out with a jab. Nothing to do with fitness in that one. Just Brook is better skilled and the other guy has a shite chin!

Publicly addressing an issue is not the same as proving you've dealt with it. Fighting 12 hard rounds without dying on your arse against a good opponent would be proof that he's dealt with his stamina issue. It really is that simple.

danconnollyeire wrote: Erm sorry what does this have to do with anything? Is there someone on the forum you're trying to pull?

dookus wrote:Publicly addressing an issue is not the same as proving you've dealt with it. Fighting 12 hard rounds without dying on your arse against a good opponent would be proof that he's dealt with his stamina issue. It really is that simple.

^ yep, that.

Datsue wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote: Erm sorry what does this have to do with anything? Is there someone on the forum you're trying to pull?

dookus wrote:Publicly addressing an issue is not the same as proving you've dealt with it. Fighting 12 hard rounds without dying on your arse against a good opponent would be proof that he's dealt with his stamina issue. It really is that simple.

^ yep, that.

Getting the chance to prove it is the hard bit it would seem.

Brooks stamina was shown up against Jones for a number of reasons, prime one being he had been nutted, had his nose broken, blood everywhere and had to breathe through his mouth!!

to breathe through your mouth means the mouth has to be open, an open mouthed boxer is asking for trouble.

i can safetly say Brook boxed the ears off Jones for rounds 1-6, i think it was about the 6 or 7th round that the glasgow kiss connected. would brook have carried on boxing the ears off jones if he had not been nutted/bloodied/broken?? who knows!!

but, what team ingle have ensured, along with Eddie hearn, is that, should brook need to go to the 'well' again in a fight, there will be absolutely no excuses!!

by investing time and money into Brook, Hearn has put his own coin where his mouth is and given Brook the best possible chance of bringing the bacon home (apologies to muslims!). lets get behind Kel, his conditioning certainly looks spot on, i was there at his last weigh in at meadowhall, he looked in fantastic shape, he is a monster at welter.

tallsdav wrote:

crusader wrote:

Oh I dunno, maybe it's down to the very public display that brook now has one of the most professional teams in boxing behind him. Bicep injury could be true, we will never know if its not but there's no doubting that brook has make significant changes since the Carson jones fight and addressed the issues he needed to. If Alexander doesn't turn up 100% fit and ready he will get beat easily, so maybe he wasn't going to be ready in time, his own picture from 8 weeks out didn't look like he was on point

Out of curiosity, who composes the team you mention, when did they start working with Brook, and how do you know that Alexander is impressed with the team? I'd also appreciate it if you posted the picture of Alexander that you're referring to.

Brook's only opponent since facing Jones 7 months ago was a mediocre fighter, and the fight went only three rounds, whereas Brook's trouble with Jones didn't start until roughly the fifth round. I don't think that good evidence can be extracted from that performance to support the claim that Brook has made significant changes that will translate into improved performances against top opponents like Alexander, and I don't think it is wise to assume that because Brook has made certain changes in training that he won't have stamina issues against top opponents who will push him and last rounds.

The claim that Alexander will lose unless he is 100% fit is unwarranted and based on nothing that either fighter has done inside the professional ring, and I doubt that Alexander agrees with the claim as you seem to assume he does. Also, if he decided not to fight because he's in relatively poor shape, that decision may reflect a concern about making weight and keeping his title, rather than a concern about losing to Brook.

That's some great extrapolation work you have done there!

Who composes these teams, i dont know. The team however is a lot more than just promoter/manager and trainer though. As for saying Alexander is impressed by the team, that wasnt me. here's the photo of Alexander 8 weeks out he put up on twitter, looking smooth there
https://twitter.com/DAlexandereal/statu ... 28/photo/1

The only kind of person who would think it not wise to assume Brook is now a better conditioned athlete than the when he faced Jones is one who has never stepped in a gym, has no appreciation of nutrition and doesn't wish to understand anymore about boxing than left, right and the promoters cut, surely thats not what you are, is it? By your comments you only go on what happens in a fight, not what's done through the training, the fight remember is the byproduct of the weeks/months/years of training. Brook addressed the issues from the Jones fight from all i've read and he looked great at the Saldivia weigh in, not just physically either, he looked to have made the weight easy compared to the Jones weigh in. What can be addressed and changed in 7 months? How about you undergo a 7 months intense training and nutrition programme backed by scientists and using a good coach to guide you through and then come back and tell us? Loads can be achieved in that time, i once put 1 INCH on my.... biceps in that time ;)

In short it sounds like you only understand what happens in the ring, thus you dont appreciate the changes he's made. Most in the game who are more than armchair fans will understand though.

Your last paragraph, any fighter at the top of their game going in to the ring not at 100% is likely to lose against another top fighter who is 100%. Hard work beats talent, when talent doesnt work hard. So i think it's a fair comment to say a less than 100% Alexander gets beat, because i understand how big a difference it makes.

Think outside the ring a little, there's more to boxing these days than just lacing up and throwing combos, bro.

You initially suggested that Alexander pulled out of the bout in large part due to changes made by Brook, but that presupposes that Alexander is aware of those changes and that he agrees with your interpretation of the probable impact of those changes. My criticism of your points doesn't stem from a provincial focus on past bouts to the exclusion of what occurs in training, but from your inability to appreciate that Devon Alexander need not have the same knowledge or interpretations that you do, and that your assumptions about Brook's improvements may be flawed.

First, you suggest that Alexander may have pulled out because of Brook's team--"Oh I dunno, maybe it's down to the very public display that brook now has one of the most professional teams in boxing behind him." In that case, you're assuming that Alexander is aware of the team and that he feigned injury because he believes that such a team will significantly improve Brook's chances of winning. If Alexander were ignorant of this team or unimpressed by them, he wouldn't pull out of the bout because he believes they could decisively turn the bout in Brook's favor.

Second, you presuppose that Alexander is cognizant of the changes Brook made in training and in his nutrition, that he believes those changes will make Brook a better fighter, and that he believes he would have trouble defeating Brook. As mentioned several times, changing one's training regime or diet doesn't necessarily translate into better performances in the ring, and nothing suggests that Alexander is aware of all these changes and that thinks that they will significantly reduce his odds of victory.

Third, when you first stated that Alexander must be 100% to beat Brook, you assumed that Brook would also be 100%, which is far from certain given that injuries or distracting events can occur just days before a fight. You've since suggested that Alexander needs to be 100% to beat a 100% Brook, and while I don't think that Alexander must be 100% to win, I do think that he must be close to top form, so I don't have major issues with your claim.

Finally, Alexander looks in great shape considering the fight was 2 months away at that point. And as I mentioned above, if he did fake an injury because he was out of shape why does that suggest that he was concerned about losing to Brook and not simply concerned about failing to make weight and losing his title? In the case of the latter, the changes made by Brook would be irrelevant to why the bout is now off.

as far as i khnow, alexander has always came into the ring in great shape.

jimcook wrote:as far as i khnow, alexander has always came into the ring in great shape.

THis is what makes the original assertions by the load of berks up-thread (re-engineered retroactively so they were "tongue-in-cheek" ahem ahem) so fvcking laughable.

Alexander always looks like a mini Mr Universe.

When he fought Bradley & Urango it was like a Shiny Biceps Competition. I half-expected them to have someone on-hand between rounds to rub them down with oil (but in a bodybuilder-esque way, not the way some people on here would like to "rub down" young Kell).

Datsue = Kell 'hater'.

Never a truer word been said on here.

If he had been weaned on soft boiled rice and grew up on a rubbish tip on the edge of some oriental mega-city, you would be his greatest champion

dondada wrote:Datsue = Kell 'hater'.

Never a truer word been said on here.

If he had been weaned on soft boiled rice and grew up on a rubbish tip on the edge of some oriental mega-city, you would be his greatest champion

True dat. I really really hate Kell Brook, as is evidenced by my comments in this thread.

I get up in the morning & masturbate furiously to the idea of him suffering his first loss, eat my breakfast to the last two rounds against Jones (pausing only to masturbate again whenever he ships a clean punch) & then unwind at night by throwing darts at the picture of him hanging on my door.

I'd still make him only a slight underdog against Alexander, though.

PS: If he'd change his name to Jose Luis Brook or maybe Juan Manuel Brook I'd probably get down with the idea of liking him, though. But only if he lost two stone & fought at bantamweight.

Vaudeville Villain wrote:Let’s not lose our shit here. Both Brook and Alexander look in good nick, as do most fighters who have to hit a target weight. Heavyweights, journeymen and James Toney can look fleshy, most dieting fighters look ripped. Although I believe that an extra layer of flesh around the midriff can help. Plus there are fighters who look ripped yet don’t have stamina. Has anyone ever seen a bodybuilder run? No. That’s because they only look the part. Muscle definition does not indicate fitness, the ability to do 12 at a pace does, which is why the jury is out on Kell for the time being until he gets 12 tough ones under his belt. And I say that as a fan of Kell, friend of his friends and compadre to his brilliantly forenamed dad. I was sceptical about whether he’d get to world level as he looked to have eased off or plateaued, now his power is back and he is making all the right moves RE his conditioning, so he is on the right track and if he’s lucky he may never have to go a hard 12 again, but if he does then we’ll have the answer to the questions raised by a few people on here, who have the right to raise them based on the second half of the Jones fight.

I fancied Brook to win this one on points. I also said he would beat Berto and Ortiz a while back. Let’s hope something gets sorted and he gets that IBF belt as it would be a good draw when it comes to getting him the fights he craves and deserves. You can say what you like, he’s been on the treadmill and deserves his shot. One of the things I’ve always hated is that marquee fighters such as Floyd can just jump the title queue whenever they like. If you’re number one contender in one of the 2-3 divisions that the main guys operate in then you can get fucked at any moment.

Why do you hate Kell Brook?