Is the great white hope a thing of the past ?

[Horse]

To be fair to Fat Git, Horse, you are so wrong on this its untrue. How old are you and did you get any G.C.S.E's?

I am right, you are wrong.

[Horse]

There is no such thing as 'lower middle class' it's a strand of working class - that is all it is.

What is middle class then? You're just making up your own rules.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

To be fair to Fat Git, Horse, you are so wrong on this its untrue. How old are you and did you get any G.C.S.E's?

I am right, you are wrong.

You are not right, you would fail any sociology class.

Even in Russia and China where there is a new emerging upper class, the peasant types who
got rich in the 1990's have made sure that their children went to Eton and then Oxford and
Cambridge, travelled the world and hob-nobbed in places like Paris, Gstaad and New York. So
the movers and shakers in Russia and China today are still peasants but their children are part of
a new emerging upper class in countries where there was no such thing in years gone by, (though both countries had a ruling political elite that killed off their upper classes.) They are being overtook now by a new monied upper class, so though money is quite important to higher social standing, where you were schooled and what you do and who you spend your time with are more important.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

There is no such thing as 'lower middle class' it's a strand of working class - that is all it is.

What is middle class then? You're just making up your own rules.

Doctors, lawyers, architects - those kind of folks.

Policemen, nurses, teachers are not.

[Deserter]

To be fair to Fat Git, Horse, you are so wrong on this its untrue. How old are you and did you get any G.C.S.E's?

I am right, you are wrong.

With that type of response Mickey I think it's fair to say that if he did get any qualifications, they didn't involve the ability to construct robust arguments.

[Horse]

Those links say exactly that. It isn't 'easy' for a working class person to become true 'middle class' people who I would consider 'middle class' are doctors, lawyers, MP's, high ranking government officials and the like - live in big houses, their kids own a horse, they go skiing in winter and to the Carribean in the summer. Who aren't 'true' middle class is someone who owns their home.

David Haye can do all of that stuff. Why isn't he middle class then?

[Horse]

With that type of response Mickey I think it's fair to say that if he did get any qualifications, they didn't involve the ability to construct robust arguments.

Yeah, because Mickey's argument was so great.

[mickey1975]

To be fair to Fat Git, Horse, you are so wrong on this its untrue. How old are you and did you get any G.C.S.E's?

I am right, you are wrong.

Ok, mate, im out. Why dont you just stick to not attending Boxing matches and writing crappy lists. Unless you can prove us all wrong by turning up at the Froch-Kessler meet up, or any other show you care to mention.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Those links say exactly that. It isn't 'easy' for a working class person to become true 'middle class' people who I would consider 'middle class' are doctors, lawyers, MP's, high ranking government officials and the like - live in big houses, their kids own a horse, they go skiing in winter and to the Carribean in the summer. Who aren't 'true' middle class is someone who owns their home.

David Haye can do all of that stuff. Why isn't he middle class then?

Because he won't identify himself as middle class, he probably doesn't do any of those things, his parents and his life experiences before becoming rich were not of the middle class variety,
though I am sure if he has kids, he sends them to private school and therefore - his kids
will be middle class.

Bryan Ferry was a son of a miner from Sunderland who sent his son to Eton - even though Bryan Ferry and his son both do the same upper class pursuits like foxhunting, it would be fair to say that one is upper class and the other partakes in an upper-class lifestyle. For all his money and influence - Bryan Ferry is still a working class man (albeit rich.)

JK Rowling is richer than the queen but she isn't upper class.

You know all this horse, you are just being a pedantic twat.

[Horse]

Ok, mate, im out. Why dont you just stick to not attending Boxing matches and writing crappy lists. Unless you can prove us all wrong by turning up at the Froch-Kessler meet up, or any other show you care to mention.

Why would I want to prove you wrong?

[Deserter]

With that type of response Mickey I think it's fair to say that if he did get any qualifications, they didn't involve the ability to construct robust arguments.

Yeah, because Mickey's argument was so great.

If it wasn't, why have you proven yourself completely unable to deconstruct it and instead have to resort to the type of response a child would write?

[Horse]

Because he won't identify himself as middle class, he probably doesn't do any of those things, his parents and his life experiences before becoming rich were not of the middle class variety,
though I am sure if he has kids, he sends them to private school and therefore - his kids
will be middle class.

What if he gets middle class mates and does middle class stuff?

JK Rowling is richer than the queen but she isn't upper class.

I doubt that she is richer than the Queen.

You know all this horse, you are just being a pedantic twat.

I just don't see things the same way as you. I fail to see how I am being overly pedantic on this issue.

[Horse]

If it wasn't, why have you proven yourself completely unable to deconstruct it and instead have to resort to the type of response a child would write?

His post was pathetic. Why should I waste my tme deconstructing it?

[mickey1975]

Because he won't identify himself as middle class, he probably doesn't do any of those things, his parents and his life experiences before becoming rich were not of the middle class variety,
though I am sure if he has kids, he sends them to private school and therefore - his kids
will be middle class.

What if he gets middle class mates and does middle class stuff?

JK Rowling is richer than the queen but she isn't upper class.

I doubt that she is richer than the Queen.

You know all this horse, you are just being a pedantic twat.

I just don't see things the same way as you. I fail to see how I am being overly pedantic on this issue.

If i start knocking around with a load of black blokes, eating rice, chicken and peas and and shouting bumper clart every five minutes, it wont make me black. Now Horse, F**k off.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

What if he gets middle class mates and does middle class stuff?

Like the Bryan Ferry example, he is a working class man who takes part in middle class pursuits,
he is still working class. Class identity in this country is based on upbringing, schooling and your
parents careers.

I doubt that she is richer than the Queen.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2979033.stm

I just don't see things the same way as you. I fail to see how I am being overly pedantic on this issue.

Because you are wrong. Sorry.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Because he won't identify himself as middle class, he probably doesn't do any of those things, his parents and his life experiences before becoming rich were not of the middle class variety,
though I am sure if he has kids, he sends them to private school and therefore - his kids
will be middle class.

What if he gets middle class mates and does middle class stuff?

JK Rowling is richer than the queen but she isn't upper class.

I doubt that she is richer than the Queen.

You know all this horse, you are just being a pedantic twat.

I just don't see things the same way as you. I fail to see how I am being overly pedantic on this issue.

If i start knocking around with a load of black blokes, eating rice, chicken and peas and and shouting bumper clart every five minutes, it wont make me black. Now Horse, F**k off.

[Horse]

If i start knocking around with a load of black blokes, eating rice, chicken and peas and and shouting bumper clart every five minutes, it wont make me black. Now Horse, F**k off.

Class is changeable, race isn't.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

If i start knocking around with a load of black blokes, eating rice, chicken and peas and and shouting bumper clart every five minutes, it wont make me black. Now Horse, F**k off.

Class is changeable, race isn't.

In this country, you can't change your class - you can upgrade the class of your children.

[Horse]

Like the Bryan Ferry example, he is a working class man who takes part in middle class pursuits,
he is still working class. Class identity in this country is based on upbringing, schooling and your
parents careers.

Money comes into it as well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2979033.stm

I am sure the Queen has a lot of hidden wealth.

Because you are wrong. Sorry.

You're the one changing the definition of middle class to suit your argument.

[Horse]

In this country, you can't change your class - you can upgrade the class of your children.

I think we're going in circles a bit here.

[mickey1975]

In this country, you can't change your class - you can upgrade the class of your children.

I think we're going in circles a bit here.

The first sensible thing you have said all day, mate. If you changed your approach, you may actually learn something on the forums, i have learnt loads. You dont have to be right, even when your clearly wrong.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Money comes into it as well.

Money is an important factor. never said it wasn't.

I am sure the Queen has a lot of hidden wealth.

It is in black and white - JK Rowling is richer than the queen but she is not upper class.

You're the one changing the definition of middle class to suit your argument.

Are you middle class, horse?

[Horse]

The first sensible thing you have said all day, mate. If you changed your approach, you may actually learn something on the forums, i have learnt loads. You dont have to be right, even when your clearly wrong.

I do learn on the forum, I don't need to change to do that.

[Horse]

It is in black and white - JK Rowling is richer than the queen but she is not upper class.

Officially, but I doubt it in reality. Rowling isn't upper class, but she is middle class at least, surely?

Are you middle class, horse?

I'd say I'm working class.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Officially, but I doubt it in reality. Rowling isn't upper class, but she is middle class at least, surely?

You can't doubt fact unless you have anything solid to disprove it.

Rowling is middle class based on upbringing and schooling - she is richer than your average
upper class person today but has also been an unemployed single mother.

I'd say I'm working class.

OK, so what makes you working class - apart from a lack of money - because I know
that is the first thing you are going to say, but that lord who is always swearing has
no money either. So what other factors make you working class?