Joe Calzaghe : Has Froch's leagacy now overtaken Joe's ?

[Quixall]

Firstly I don't dislike Froch.. The fact is he has never been number 1 in his division.. I will repeat that again for the complete idiots NEVER No1!!!! As for Jones and Hopkins both past their prime maybe but both would have best Froch. If Froch fights Hopkins you will find that out.. Froch has done really well is really over rate by twats!! As for Jeff Lacy before the Calzaghe many boxing experts were saying he is the real deal p4p king. Joe derailed that and destroyed him. Froch's defining fight is Bute who was never tested and as soon as he stepped up to World Level he got stopped.. Cleverley is faster stronger and walks through punches at light heavy weight will sit and trade with everyone that's why he would beat Froch probably got just as good a chin but Clev too fast and too clever. As for Groves he is far more talented that Froch. I believe he's a bigger puncher as well only way Froch could beat Groves is by KO and couldn't see that happening.. Before any of you idiots say how good Froch is go watch the Ward fight again!!

You use words like "twats" and "idiots" why is this ? Do you actually mean people who refuse to see things teh way you do ? People who irritate you because they call you out on your limited knowledge on boxing ? First off, Who was debating that Froch is the number one fighter in his division ? That is obviously Ward. What do you mean when you say that Jones and Hopkins were "maybe" past their primes ?? Did you actually see any Jones fights before his fight with Calzaghe ? Have you seen Hopkins versus Trinidad or Oscar ? They were past their primes. Who were these experts that were saying Lacy was a real deal p4p king ? They were saying he was a dangerous fighter with a reputation, but they were also saying that he hadn't properly stepped up for that reputation to have some credence. What happenned, end of, next point please.

Froch's defining fight was against Taylor, Bute cemented his position. Taylor still had a name at the time Frooch fought him, regardless of the defeats to Pavlik. Who has Cleverley fought again ? You say he walks through punches. Who's punches exactly ? Cleverley and Groves are two leveles below Froch. Groves has potential, but who has he fought ? You mention groves and then suggest us "idiots" go and watch the Ward fight again to see how good Froch really is !! I suggest you go back and watch the fights with Taylor, Abraham, Bute, Kessler II, Pascal and even Dirrell and Johnson if your bored and then think about it, take some time and then come back on here and revise your opinions. Hearns lost to Leonard, so was Hearns shit ?

[Quixall]

Nobody is saying Froch is number 1 at super mid. Ward is. Ward is also arguably number 2 p4p.

For Lacy, see Bute. Both had similar level wins at world level before being destroyed by Joe and Carl respectively. If anything Bute had the better record by a touch.

Jones wouldn't have beat Froch. He was done by then and had been knocked out by the road warrior.
Hopkins would have had a great chance of beating Froch. To be fair, the old boy was a hairs breadth away from beating Calzaghe too.

Cleverly hasn't faced anyone yet and hasn't looked amazing in the process. Good fighter but will be exposed when he faces an elite level guy. He is the typical FW project. If he ever steps up and faces a top fighter he will find out he has been undercooked.

Why do people seemingly think Froch can't box and is extremely limited? It's not true. He gives everyone a very hard time and only someone as skilled as Ward, who can seemingly do almost everything, looked fairly comfortable against him. Cleverly, Groves etc are a billion miles away from Ward's level. Froch would knock both out. I think Mack would give Cleverly all he can handle

The point is Froch has never even been No1 at his weight Joe was at 2 weights that alone shows who has the better legacy.. Joes is one if the British all time greats if not the greatest!! Froch wouldn't even be in most people's top ten.. Legacy is the word used here!! Froch still has time but will not surpass Joe

It all depends on who is around in your era as to whether you can gain the number one spot. Was Joe really the number one light heavyweight after two fights ?? Joe's resume of fighters is the following. Bika, Lacy, Kessler, Jones and Hopkins. Bika was ordinary, Lacy was over-hyped, Kessler was the real deal, Jones was shot to pieces and Hopkins was some way past his prime years. That little resume put into it's proper perspective wouldn't see Calzaghe as the number one fighter today.

[ajwesty13]

It all depends on who is around in your era as to whether you can gain the number one spot. Was Joe really the number one light heavyweight after two fights ?? Joe's resume of fighters is the following. Bika, Lacy, Kessler, Jones and Hopkins. Bika was ordinary, Lacy was over-hyped, Kessler was the real deal, Jones was shot to pieces and Hopkins was some way past his prime years. That little resume put into it's proper perspective wouldn't see Calzaghe as the number one fighter today.

I agree with all of what you said but to clarify are saying that JC wouldnt be number one today due too the people he fought or he wouldnt be number one due to the boxers of today?

[Quixall]

Was Carl determined to build a legacy or forced into it? The super six made most of the fights compulsory! As soon as he got to call the shots with a powerful promoter and TV network we got Mack! If your going to hold Reid against Joe, you have to hold Dirrell against Carl. Far, far worse decision.

This post is just utter negative bullshit. Froch can't win in some people's eyes.

Bute and Kessler were 2 well-known world champions in the division. Mack was one gimme fight in a run of about 10 non-gimmes. Moan moan moan, that's all some British fight fans do. Enjoy Froch while he's here, was the same with Hatton, all some people could do was be negative, well he's gone now and who did we have to replace him for big fights and excitment in the British game, apart from Froch?

He had no title when he faced Bute, so was in no position to sit back and defend anything. I loved Hatton, and respect Froch, just dont get too carried away. He is clearly number two in the division, and pound for pound number one in the hypocrite rankings. He never shut up about a dodgy decision in the super 6 against Kessler (which was fair) and never mentions the true robbery (Dirrell). Plus the Groves/Clev/Magee poo...I would put money on it he does not fight Ward again.

Why wouldn't he fight Ward again ? Why was Ward over for the fight lol, come one !! He had no title, but he has a name and Bute had a name without even appearing in the super six tornament. Froch wanted that fight because he knew he could gain off a win from Bute, who has perhaps had some over hype in terms of his career standing. Bute thought Froch would be far easier than he thought. Froch said in a pre fight conference that he lost fair and sqaure against Kessler and even said that on the Jonathon Ross Show lol. Does Joe talk about the Hopkins decision ? What exactly is the Groves/Clev/Magee poo ? Are you suggesting that they can give Froch a fight at this stage of his career ? really lol ?

[Quixall]

It all depends on who is around in your era as to whether you can gain the number one spot. Was Joe really the number one light heavyweight after two fights ?? Joe's resume of fighters is the following. Bika, Lacy, Kessler, Jones and Hopkins. Bika was ordinary, Lacy was over-hyped, Kessler was the real deal, Jones was shot to pieces and Hopkins was some way past his prime years. That little resume put into it's proper perspective wouldn't see Calzaghe as the number one fighter today.

I agree with all of what you said but to clarify are saying that JC wouldnt be number one today due too the people he fought or he wouldnt be number one due to the boxers of today?

I would qulify that by saying it would be more difficult for Calzaghe to be number one today, in respect of the fighters that are around. The only real stand out win for Joe was Kessler. You have to put the fights into context. Bika was ordinary, Lacy overhyped, Jones was just gone and Hopkins was way past his best days. The rest were padded fights and i don't think that warrented a number one slot. In all honesty, i think the rankings stink anyway. None of the governing bodies top 10 list is the same and it's all become a mess. You use your eyes to see who is number one, number two etc etc. Ward is clearly number one and Froch number two.

[NazNaci1]

Nobody is saying Froch is number 1 at super mid. Ward is. Ward is also arguably number 2 p4p.

For Lacy, see Bute. Both had similar level wins at world level before being destroyed by Joe and Carl respectively. If anything Bute had the better record by a touch.

Jones wouldn't have beat Froch. He was done by then and had been knocked out by the road warrior.
Hopkins would have had a great chance of beating Froch. To be fair, the old boy was a hairs breadth away from beating Calzaghe too.

Cleverly hasn't faced anyone yet and hasn't looked amazing in the process. Good fighter but will be exposed when he faces an elite level guy. He is the typical FW project. If he ever steps up and faces a top fighter he will find out he has been undercooked.

Why do people seemingly think Froch can't box and is extremely limited? It's not true. He gives everyone a very hard time and only someone as skilled as Ward, who can seemingly do almost everything, looked fairly comfortable against him. Cleverly, Groves etc are a billion miles away from Ward's level. Froch would knock both out. I think Mack would give Cleverly all he can handle

The point is Froch has never even been No1 at his weight Joe was at 2 weights that alone shows who has the better legacy.. Joes is one if the British all time greats if not the greatest!! Froch wouldn't even be in most people's top ten.. Legacy is the word used here!! Froch still has time but will not surpass Joe

There are people that still believe all this? Joe done this, done that, was avoided, proved himself across TWO weights, has the beter legacy.......seriously?

Where do I start??? Most boxing fans will agree that Joe was a better fighter, just did not have the better record and wll never have. Carl walks through Cleverly and would have given Joe a tough nights work. Joe picking to fight an ultra faded RJJ, when he didi his damndest to avoid him for 10yrs. Struggling with weight. Fighting no name after no name and (for me) lost to both Reid and Hopkins....shall I go on? I can, you know

[davie]

He fought Jones Jnr and Hopkins the 2 best fighters at that weight didn't need to fight anyone else.. Joe also fought Lacy who was the Ward of the time.. Anyone who believes Froch wouldn't of been schooled by Calzaghe should just stop following boxing.. Complete different levels and the Kessler fights showed that. As for Groves and Degale if Froch takes the fight with Groves he will lose his belts. He will lose them anyway because Ward schools him again. Only fight there that he could win is the Kessler rematch and that's a 50/50 fight.. He should move to light heavy and fight Cleverley no doubt a lot of you idiots on here will say Froch destroys Cleverley ask yourself why he has never took the huge pay day.. I like Froch he has a great chin but is quite limited and will never be the best in his division unlike Calzaghe at 2 weights.. But I'm sure we will hear different from the experts ^^^^^^

lacy was the ward of his time?

in what way? in the way he stood in front of joe and ate punches for several rounds and looked ready to cry by the end of the fight?
in the way that he built a reputation on nothing more than a big left hook and building an unbeaten record on nobodies that couldn't handle his power?

aye, that sounds just like the slick, skillful, intelegent, technician that dismantled carl froch and mopped up the division while barely taking a punch. and is now considered by many a p4p contender

you're right the paralels are there for all to see

you're having a right stinker on this thread david

[ajwesty13]

I would qulify that by saying it would be more difficult for Calzaghe to be number one today, in respect of the fighters that are around. The only real stand out win for Joe was Kessler. You have to put the fights into context. Bika was ordinary, Lacy overhyped, Jones was just gone and Hopkins was way past his best days. The rest were padded fights and i don't think that warrented a number one slot. In all honesty, i think the rankings stink anyway. None of the governing bodies top 10 list is the same and it's all become a mess. You use your eyes to see who is number one, number two etc etc. Ward is clearly number one and Froch number two.

Yeah lacy was so overated they built him up like the new tyson .. which you couldnt get further from the truth if you tried... i am not on here to change your opinion.. i think the talent is pretty scarce as it was when jo was about... hence why dawson came down a weight to fight ward created a buzz... i think kessler was JC best fight (i wont go over what i wrote earlier) but i would have like to have seen jo fight in either the benn, eubank collins McClellend era... or now with ward froch kessler. i think it would be a great fight between those 3 .. Imho i think Jo would have been number one but there is argument for both sides.. and alas we will never really know..
Ps sorry to get in the middle of trying to teach a unteachable

[daviddee]

I've not said Lacy was as good as Ward but was talked of in the same way. Jones Jnr was offered to fight Calzaghe years before and turned it down. Cleverley beats Froch because he's faster stronger and can trace just as well as Froch! People jump on the flavour of the month and that is Froch at the minute.. I don't disagree with the records although I think people are harsh on Calzaghe just look at how many world champions or ex World Champions he fought!! Yes and win. If Taylor is a defining fight for Froch then it shows exactly he had lost that fight until right at the end!! Like I have said when he retires he will be flavour of the month for about a year then everyone will forget about him and it will be Calzaghe with the LEGACY

[NazNaci1]

I've not said Lacy was as good as Ward but was talked of in the same way. Jones Jnr was offered to fight Calzaghe years before and turned it down. Cleverley beats Froch because he's faster stronger and can trace just as well as Froch! People jump on the flavour of the month and that is Froch at the minute.. I don't disagree with the records although I think people are harsh on Calzaghe just look at how many world champions or ex World Champions he fought!! Yes and win. If Taylor is a defining fight for Froch then it shows exactly he had lost that fight until right at the end!! Like I have said when he retires he will be flavour of the month for about a year then everyone will forget about him and it will be Calzaghe with the LEGACY

I have to say I disagree with every single point you have made in this post. Every single one.

[mickey1975]

I don't think he will fight again as I don't believe he believes he can win. The fight would make more money in the States no matter how many people would attend here, and I feel the place it would take place will be Carl's excuse to avoid it. Ward came over to work the fight for HBO didn't he? The Clev/Groves/Magee shit was a reference to Carl's hypocrisy concerning the sparring, but yes ido think both Clev and Groves could give him a good fight, I would pick Clev to beat him. He complained many times about the Kessler decision, even in the ring to his Dad immediately after the fight LOL.

[palooka]

Froch isn't retired and his legacy and the record of his bouts have to be taken when he's retired. It is very unlikely but he may decide he cannot stop boxing and start to get beat regularly - it has happened to boxers greater than him and has affected their legacy and standing in the sport.

Calzaghe will always have the fact he retired undefeated - not many champions do. Froch has faced the best in the division and given up home advantage to do so - that stands alone.

I think that Froch will end up being seen as having the better record and legacy; it is a shame that Calzaghe had bad hands for so much of his career; if he could have hit with his old power he would have laid a lot of his challengers out in impressive fashion.

[davie]

Froch isn't retired and his legacy and the record of his bouts have to be taken when he's retired. It is very unlikely but he may decide he cannot stop boxing and start to get beat regularly - it has happened to boxers greater than him and has affected their legacy and standing in the sport.

Calzaghe will always have the fact he retired undefeated - not many champions do. Froch has faced the best in the division and given up home advantage to do so - that stands alone.

I think that Froch will end up being seen as having the better record and legacy; it is a shame that Calzaghe had bad hands for so much of his career; if he could have hit with his old power he would have laid a lot of his challengers out in impressive fashion.

it's just a point of view, but i don't see it like that.

i don't think RJJ's legacy is any less because he made a bit of a tit of himself for the last 5 years. he'll still be remembered in the HoF as a several wieght world champion and long riegning p4p king

mayweather could retire in 2 years time undefeated or go on for another 7 years and lose a few. 15 years down the line i'll probably still look back at him as a man who ruled boxing

and the same goes for joe, had he fought on for a few more and dropped a few decisions, i wouldn't have thought any less of him.

of course not everyone will agree on that and sees "legacy" as a different thing, but thats just the way i see it
growing old, getting crap and getting whupped a few times when your done, because you can't walk away doesn't take away from the greatness you achieved at your prime, particularly if that prime spanned a successful decade in the sport

[davie]

I've not said Lacy was as good as Ward but was talked of in the same way. Jones Jnr was offered to fight Calzaghe years before and turned it down. Cleverley beats Froch because he's faster stronger and can trace just as well as Froch! People jump on the flavour of the month and that is Froch at the minute.. I don't disagree with the records although I think people are harsh on Calzaghe just look at how many world champions or ex World Champions he fought!! Yes and win. If Taylor is a defining fight for Froch then it shows exactly he had lost that fight until right at the end!! Like I have said when he retires he will be flavour of the month for about a year then everyone will forget about him and it will be Calzaghe with the LEGACY

you are having a fornicating holocaust here mate

give it up when your behind mate, i cannot believe your corner hasn't thrown the towel in yet

[TheCobra]

Was Carl determined to build a legacy or forced into it? The super six made most of the fights compulsory! As soon as he got to call the shots with a powerful promoter and TV network we got Mack! If your going to hold Reid against Joe, you have to hold Dirrell against Carl. Far, far worse decision.

This post is just utter negative bullshit. Froch can't win in some people's eyes.

Bute and Kessler were 2 well-known world champions in the division. Mack was one gimme fight in a run of about 10 non-gimmes. Moan moan moan, that's all some British fight fans do. Enjoy Froch while he's here, was the same with Hatton, all some people could do was be negative, well he's gone now and who did we have to replace him for big fights and excitment in the British game, apart from Froch?

He had no title when he faced Bute, so was in no position to sit back and defend anything. I loved Hatton, and respect Froch, just dont get too carried away. He is clearly number two in the division, and pound for pound number one in the hypocrite rankings. He never shut up about a dodgy decision in the super 6 against Kessler (which was fair) and never mentions the true robbery (Dirrell). Plus the Groves/Clev/Magee poo...I would put money on it he does not fight Ward again.

Dirrell a true robbery?? LMAO!!! He threw about 5 punches a round, sorry but Dirrell was just poor - a scared fighter, you can't go into someone elses back yard and expect to win a fight throwing a sparing amount of punches and nicking a close decision, it just doesn't happen. Never a 'true robbery' in a month of Sunday's, this just confirms your negative views for me.

[mickey1975]

Watch the fight again and please point out where Froch did anything to win the fight. Please, I have waited four years for somebody to show me. He was even out punched. Are you saying the fact it was in Nottingham is enough to give it to Carl?

[TheCobra]

Watch the fight again and please point out where Froch did anything to win the fight. Please, I have waited four years for somebody to show me. He was even out punched. Are you saying the fact it was in Nottingham is enough to give it to Carl?

I had that fight one point to Froch, it was a terrible fight and I never want to see Dirrell in a boxing ring again to be honest.

[expe]

Everyone seems to be forgetting Calzaghe's wins over Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Brewer and Mitchell. Add those to the wins over Lacy, Bika, Kessler, Hopkins and Jones and IMO he has the better record.

[Quixall]

I would qulify that by saying it would be more difficult for Calzaghe to be number one today, in respect of the fighters that are around. The only real stand out win for Joe was Kessler. You have to put the fights into context. Bika was ordinary, Lacy overhyped, Jones was just gone and Hopkins was way past his best days. The rest were padded fights and i don't think that warrented a number one slot. In all honesty, i think the rankings stink anyway. None of the governing bodies top 10 list is the same and it's all become a mess. You use your eyes to see who is number one, number two etc etc. Ward is clearly number one and Froch number two.

Yeah lacy was so overated they built him up like the new tyson .. which you couldnt get further from the truth if you tried... i am not on here to change your opinion.. i think the talent is pretty scarce as it was when jo was about... hence why dawson came down a weight to fight ward created a buzz... i think kessler was JC best fight (i wont go over what i wrote earlier) but i would have like to have seen jo fight in either the benn, eubank collins McClellend era... or now with ward froch kessler. i think it would be a great fight between those 3 .. Imho i think Jo would have been number one but there is argument for both sides.. and alas we will never really know..
Ps sorry to get in the middle of trying to teach a unteachable

Well, if you think Lacy was the real deal and not a hype job, how come a faded Jones made him look a fool when Jones was a known shot fighter ? Or is it the way you have worded it ? Can't seem to make out if you are pro Lacy or not. As for teh comment on teaching the unteachable, again, i am slightly lost on that comment, sorry.

[Quixall]

I've not said Lacy was as good as Ward but was talked of in the same way. Jones Jnr was offered to fight Calzaghe years before and turned it down. Cleverley beats Froch because he's faster stronger and can trace just as well as Froch! People jump on the flavour of the month and that is Froch at the minute.. I don't disagree with the records although I think people are harsh on Calzaghe just look at how many world champions or ex World Champions he fought!! Yes and win. If Taylor is a defining fight for Froch then it shows exactly he had lost that fight until right at the end!! Like I have said when he retires he will be flavour of the month for about a year then everyone will forget about him and it will be Calzaghe with the LEGACY

Your posts are becoming tedious, because you clearly don't know very much. Calzaghe was off the radar in America when Jones was in his prime years. Cleverley beats Froch ???? Who has Cleverley beaten ? He is a paper weight champion, an alpha-bet, buy one get two free champion. That just doesn't happen. Froch is the " flavour of the month " ??? So two solid years of fighting back to back champions is flavour of the month ? Taylor is a defining fight for Froch, because up until that point Carl was being ignored by the critics and by the media. He beat a still very dangerous Jermaine Taylor over in his own back yard. Taylor tired and couldn't handle Froch in the last half of the fight. The first half of the fight was Taylor's, the second half was Froch's. It was Froch's punches that did the damage, took the strength away and Carl finished him aswell. That is no different to Calzaghe, who lost half of his fight with Hopkins, only to come back in the second half and both were put down in those respective fights (Calzaghe and Froch). After Taylor, Froch was on the map, people looked up from there navals and said "Oooo he beat Taylor" and Froch had arrived, hence it being his defining fight. If you think that Froch will be forgotten, you are sadly mistaken. This weekend has certainly put him on a plinth with Benn and Eubank and he is better than either of those two and they are remembered by boxing fans.

[stevieb_8006]

I've not said Lacy was as good as Ward but was talked of in the same way. Jones Jnr was offered to fight Calzaghe years before and turned it down. Cleverley beats Froch because he's faster stronger and can trace just as well as Froch! People jump on the flavour of the month and that is Froch at the minute.. I don't disagree with the records although I think people are harsh on Calzaghe just look at how many world champions or ex World Champions he fought!! Yes and win. If Taylor is a defining fight for Froch then it shows exactly he had lost that fight until right at the end!! Like I have said when he retires he will be flavour of the month for about a year then everyone will forget about him and it will be Calzaghe with the LEGACY

wow, an entire forum of boxing enthusiasts disagree with you, and we're the idiots.......

[Quixall]

I don't think he will fight again as I don't believe he believes he can win. The fight would make more money in the States no matter how many people would attend here, and I feel the place it would take place will be Carl's excuse to avoid it. Ward came over to work the fight for HBO didn't he? The Clev/Groves/Magee poo was a reference to Carl's hypocrisy concerning the sparring, but yes ido think both Clev and Groves could give him a good fight, I would pick Clev to beat him. He complained many times about the Kessler decision, even in the ring to his Dad immediately after the fight LOL.

Why would Carl avoid Ward ? It doesn't make sense. He wasn't beaten up or made foolosh in that first fight. He had an off night, but i too think that Ward has his number. The point is that Froch has nothing to lose. If he lost again to Ward, would that take away all the other victories etc, not in my eyes it wouldn't. Ward came over to work for HBO did he lol. Yeah, he flew all the way to England to work for good old HBO. He made himslef available to speak to Froch ringside a few minutes after the fight, he was being interviewed by sky sports just after the fight and tweeted about Eddie getting the fight on. So on that score, pull the other one lol. All the Groves debacle was about was building up the tension, nothing more, nothing less, just plain old aggro talk. As for the Kessler decision, i can show you two videos where he says that he lost fair and square. Just watch the Jonathon Ross show lol, he clearly says it.

[ajwesty13]

Well, if you think Lacy was the real deal and not a hype job, how come a faded Jones made him look a fool when Jones was a known shot fighter ? Or is it the way you have worded it ? Can't seem to make out if you are pro Lacy or not. As for teh comment on teaching the unteachable, again, i am slightly lost on that comment, sorry.

oh NO im not pro lacy at all ... he was a mediocre fighter at best who just talked a good game and wanted a shot at a title and for some misguided venture he thought JC would be an easy fight..

the unteachable is someone on your thread that just doesnt get that froch and calzaghe are on a par when it comes to record versus who they fought... mentioning no names though ... ;;-)

[Quixall]

Froch isn't retired and his legacy and the record of his bouts have to be taken when he's retired. It is very unlikely but he may decide he cannot stop boxing and start to get beat regularly - it has happened to boxers greater than him and has affected their legacy and standing in the sport.

Calzaghe will always have the fact he retired undefeated - not many champions do. Froch has faced the best in the division and given up home advantage to do so - that stands alone.

I think that Froch will end up being seen as having the better record and legacy; it is a shame that Calzaghe had bad hands for so much of his career; if he could have hit with his old power he would have laid a lot of his challengers out in impressive fashion.

it's just a point of view, but i don't see it like that.

i don't think RJJ's legacy is any less because he made a bit of a tit of himself for the last 5 years. he'll still be remembered in the HoF as a several wieght world champion and long riegning p4p king

mayweather could retire in 2 years time undefeated or go on for another 7 years and lose a few. 15 years down the line i'll probably still look back at him as a man who ruled boxing

and the same goes for joe, had he fought on for a few more and dropped a few decisions, i wouldn't have thought any less of him.

of course not everyone will agree on that and sees "legacy" as a different thing, but thats just the way i see it
growing old, getting crap and getting whupped a few times when your done, because you can't walk away doesn't take away from the greatness you achieved at your prime, particularly if that prime spanned a successful decade in the sport

Agree Davie,

Many of the great fighters have carried on too long, but haven't seen there achievements blemished by defeats in their careers or defeats when they were old and washed up. Robinson, Ali, Leonard, Hearns, Jones, toney etc etc.

[Quixall]

Well, if you think Lacy was the real deal and not a hype job, how come a faded Jones made him look a fool when Jones was a known shot fighter ? Or is it the way you have worded it ? Can't seem to make out if you are pro Lacy or not. As for teh comment on teaching the unteachable, again, i am slightly lost on that comment, sorry.

oh NO im not pro lacy at all ... he was a mediocre fighter at best who just talked a good game and wanted a shot at a title and for some misguided venture he thought JC would be an easy fight..

the unteachable is someone on your thread that just doesnt get that froch and calzaghe are on a par when it comes to record versus who they fought... mentioning no names though ... ;;-)

Ahh. glad you have confirmed what i thought you meant........lol

As for that person, Woooooow, you've gotta love em