BoxRec

loaded_gloves wrote:When Foreman boxed Young he had been without water for two days and fought twelve rounds in stifling jungle heat.

.

Why was he dehydrated for two days prior?

Also San Juan can have some pretty balmy weather at times.....was it a scorcher prior to and during the event?

I'm confused by this too - why did Big George go without water for two days before a big fight?

It was an old time trick, Foreman's team did it for most of his big fights. Deny the man water, make him meaner, more vicious. Probably not beneficial in the torrid heat of the Congo and Puerto Rico.

CrazyHorse wrote:After the Lewis vs Tyson fight Big George said "He is no doubt the best heavyweight of all time"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV5AMRL5-Hc




What are your thoughts on when he said that? A guy who fought Muhammad Ali said that another guy is no doubt the best of all time.

Sugar Ray Leonard said the same about that acrobat guy that starred in a few movies, what's his name.. Oh yeah, Bruce Lee. Ray would kick Lee's ass 100 out of 100 times. Guys like Ray and George say this stuff because they want to be gracious and not arrogant self promoting chest-thumpers like RJJ and FMJ. Rest assured that Ray and George are comfortable in the fact that others will mention their names when ATG lists are discussed.

CrazyHorse wrote:After the Lewis vs Tyson fight Big George said "He is no doubt the best heavyweight of all time"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV5AMRL5-Hc




What are your thoughts on when he said that? A guy who fought Muhammad Ali said that another guy is no doubt the best of all time.

On his day, Lennox can beat anyone.

Foreman did not look good in the Young fight (not to take anything from Young who fought a very good fight.) A performance like that wold put him in big trouble vs Lewis.
On the other hand, the Lewis that lost to Rahman would be in big trouble vs Foreman.

You have to look at all of their fights when they close to their prime and try to figure out what is most likely to happen.

With Foreman against Ali and Young he at least has a valid excuse. Lewis similarly has a reasonable excuse for his performance against Bruno.

But against Ray Mercer... What was his excuse there? What worked against him? I watched the build up, watched the fight live, followed both men long after... Lennox simply couldn't handle Ray Mercer and did not pursue a rematch. His preparation was perfect, Mercer had been out a long time which was a bonus, and the whole thing was designed for Lewis to become the first man to stop Mercer . . . but when Mercer shrugged off his shots, could jab with him and began to rough him up Lewis lost the plot. Yes he sucked it up and survived, impressive, but the general popular opinion was that he lost.

Mercer has attributes that the best of the best through history tend to have - the chin, power, fearlessness. Lewis simply isn't this unbeatable monster who could handle anyone on his night. Lewis really was poor against Mercer. He was poor both times against an ageing Holyfield too, although he won the first fight, and against Mavrovic. If you had a mental problem, a glass chin, or were nearing 40 you could make Lewis look the best of all time. If you could take it and give it back, wow Lewis could look tired and frail.

There is no valid excuse for Foreman's losses to Ali and Young; he just lost.
I agree that Lewis should not have got the decision vs Mercer; but it was a good fight and was close.
Lewis beat several good fighters in his career. He may not have been as good as Foreman, but he was reasonably close.

loaded_gloves wrote:Lewis simply isn't this unbeatable monster who could handle anyone on his night. Lewis really was poor against Mercer. He was poor both times against an ageing Holyfield too, although he won the first fight, and against Mavrovic. If you had a mental problem, a glass chin, or were nearing 40 you could make Lewis look the best of all time. If you could take it and give it back, wow Lewis could look tired and frail.

i see it like that too. lewis is an ATG by no doubt,
but his record shows a couple of occasions that
were less than impressive. i would say he was
quite lucky at times.

man wrote:i see it like that too. lewis is an ATG by no doubt,
but his record shows a couple of occasions that
were less than impressive. i would say he was
quite lucky at times.

And the exact same thing can be said about just about any other ATG fighter.

The Great John L wrote:

man wrote:i see it like that too. lewis is an ATG by no doubt,
but his record shows a couple of occasions that
were less than impressive. i would say he was
quite lucky at times.

And the exact same thing can be said about just about any other ATG fighter.

i thought the same when i wrote my post. ... :) ...

i have so much respect for lewis, but whenever i
see his record i am always a little disappointed. no
doubt it is a great one, but it is not as good as my
impression of him as a fighter is, if that makes any
sense.

somehow a similar feeling with JCC for me. the opposite
with DLH. i think in ten years from now the klitschko's
records will be reevaluated by the pundits and they will
get more credit. i don't say it is a strong field, but these
days we tend to think that the hayes and chisoras are
unworthy opponents - which is an exaggeration IMHO.

man wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

man wrote:i see it like that too. lewis is an ATG by no doubt,
but his record shows a couple of occasions that
were less than impressive. i would say he was
quite lucky at times.

And the exact same thing can be said about just about any other ATG fighter.

i thought the same when i wrote my post. ... :) ...

i have so much respect for lewis, but whenever i
see his record i am always a little disappointed. no
doubt it is a great one, but it is not as good as my
impression of him as a fighter is, if that makes any
sense.

somehow a similar feeling with JCC for me. the opposite
with DLH. i think in ten years from now the klitschko's
records will be reevaluated by the pundits and they will
get more credit. i don't say it is a strong field, but these
days we tend to think that the hayes and chisoras are
unworthy opponents - which is an exaggeration IMHO.

Lewis dominated the division and beat everyone of relevance, similar to Louis and Ali. Of course he did stumble a bit, and isn’t in their league, but he did beat some good fighters and even more so the manner in which he dispatched a number of his better opponents should garner the respect of even the most diehard fan of prior eras. As should be evident by my screen name I love the history of the sport and am saddened by its slow demise. However, to not recognize the accomplishments of a dedicated warrior like Lewis, or to continually bring up the times that he stumbled is nothing but foolish.

RazorKO wrote:I respect Foreman and his achievements as a fighter, but the stuff he says are way off.

Lewis is not even a top 20 HW, let alone a top 10 HW. Great fighters dont get knocked out by 2 journeymen. End of story.

Not even top twenty? Have you been smoking crack or something?

The Great John L wrote:Lewis dominated the division and beat everyone of relevance, similar to Louis and Ali. Of course he did stumble a bit, and isn’t in their league, but he did beat some good fighters and even more so the manner in which he dispatched a number of his better opponents should garner the respect of even the most diehard fan of prior eras. As should be evident by my screen name I love the history of the sport and am saddened by its slow demise. However, to not recognize the accomplishments of a dedicated warrior like Lewis, or to continually bring up the times that he stumbled is nothing but foolish.

i don't think i'm doing that. i have all the respect
for lewis, especially for his heart. he could dig
deep when needed, no doubt.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

RazorKO wrote:I respect Foreman and his achievements as a fighter, but the stuff he says are way off.

Lewis is not even a top 20 HW, let alone a top 10 HW. Great fighters dont get knocked out by 2 journeymen. End of story.

Not even top twenty? Have you been smoking crack or something?

He was 6-5 240 lbs of solid muscle with good handspeed, decent footwork and massive power. I would say that anyone who doesn't have him top 20 is close minded, trolling or slightly addled.

man wrote:

The Great John L wrote:Lewis dominated the division and beat everyone of relevance, similar to Louis and Ali. Of course he did stumble a bit, and isn’t in their league, but he did beat some good fighters and even more so the manner in which he dispatched a number of his better opponents should garner the respect of even the most diehard fan of prior eras. As should be evident by my screen name I love the history of the sport and am saddened by its slow demise. However, to not recognize the accomplishments of a dedicated warrior like Lewis, or to continually bring up the times that he stumbled is nothing but foolish.

i don't think i'm doing that. i have all the respect
for lewis, especially for his heart. he could dig
deep when needed, no doubt.

I didn't intend that to be addressed to you. My appologies.

RazorKO wrote:Lewis is not even a top 20 HW, let alone a top 10 HW. Great fighters dont get knocked out by 2 journeymen. End of story.

you forget to mention that he avenged both
losses, making him one of the very few fighters
who defeated everyone they faced. everything
can happen at heavy. no shame in losing IMO ...

Lennox Lewis is a ....joke.

What's he doing now a days, washing London Taxi Cabs?

The Great John L wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

RazorKO wrote:I respect Foreman and his achievements as a fighter, but the stuff he says are way off.

Lewis is not even a top 20 HW, let alone a top 10 HW. Great fighters dont get knocked out by 2 journeymen. End of story.

Not even top twenty? Have you been smoking crack or something?

He was 6-5 240 lbs of solid muscle with good handspeed, decent footwork and massive power. I would say that anyone who doesn't have him top 20 is close minded, trolling or slightly addled.

"slightly addled"

That's nice.

The Great John L wrote:

man wrote:

The Great John L wrote:Lewis dominated the division and beat everyone of relevance, similar to Louis and Ali. Of course he did stumble a bit, and isn’t in their league, but he did beat some good fighters and even more so the manner in which he dispatched a number of his better opponents should garner the respect of even the most diehard fan of prior eras. As should be evident by my screen name I love the history of the sport and am saddened by its slow demise. However, to not recognize the accomplishments of a dedicated warrior like Lewis, or to continually bring up the times that he stumbled is nothing but foolish.

i don't think i'm doing that. i have all the respect
for lewis, especially for his heart. he could dig
deep when needed, no doubt.

I didn't intend that to be addressed to you. My appologies.

nice you say that. i like if people have strong
opinions and manners.

Lennox Lewis is not an all-time p4p great. He is a great heavyweight.

Joe Punchy wrote:Lennox Lewis is a ....joke.

What's he doing now a days, washing London Taxi Cabs?

No I think he retired rich....maybe he owns a fleet of cabs.....