BoxRec

Foreman would have his moments because Holmes did like to cruise. He was a 3 minutes a round guy. However, his height, jab, chin & overall boxing ability would be enough against Foreman.

I can see old George beating old Larry though.

when was George at his best when we was young he was mentally weak and gassed in 3 rounds as an old man George was patient good with controlling his stamina but subsequently he was slower and easier to hit.
Larry at his best was fast powerful and clever he also had an iron chin I don't think Georges power would effect Larry he took the best punch off a man who is thought to be the hardest puncher shavers. Larry I hope wouldn't be dumb enough to stand in front of George if he uses his movement then Holmes will always win
I take Holmes by decision UD in a fight with old George and a late TKO with young George

There are only 2 boxers in the heavyweight history whom I'd favor to beat peak George Foreman - Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes.

Boxing Writer wrote:There are only 2 boxers in the heavyweight history whom I'd favor to beat peak George Foreman - Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes.

Ali is a given

Other than that, I always swither on Holmes and Lewis.
Regards Holmes, some days I fancy Larry to win, others I lean toward George. I think I probably favour George more often than not but Holmes was capable
As for the Lewis fight, he has the tools to beat big George on his best day but has every bit as good a chance of being leveled.

I'd take Holmes, holyfield, bowe & Liston.

but Liston was from the 50s....
Anyway, I think Foreman might do badly against some of the heavyweights of later eras. Heavyweights today are considerably bigger and stronger than those of Foreman's era.

Apparently he has this crazy notion that a fighter from the 1950s would beat a fighter from the 1970s and still thinks the 1970s was better.

What is your deal? Now you are making a big deal about size?

In another thread you claimed the 1950s heavyweights were better than the 1970s heavyweights. The 1950s heavyweights were mostly smaller than the 1970s heavyweights.

The heavyweights today are bigger. They also suck. Foreman would completely dominate them.

wvboxer wrote:Foreman would have his moments because Holmes did like to cruise. He was a 3 minutes a round guy. However, his height, jab, chin & overall boxing ability would be enough against Foreman.

I can see old George beating old Larry though.

I can't see it... Old Holmes easily out-boxed Ray Mercer.. Mercer had much the same style as Foreman - big, powerful, and slow... But Mercer was much faster than super slow Tommy Morrison - who Mercer easily knocked out in an early round... On the other hand Morrison out-sped slow-assed Foreman.

- I see the boxrec swamp has turned over yet again as noxious methane/hydrogen sulfide bubble up to give birth to faerie fantasy fight dreams.



Big George and Tubby Lar are the same age, but could never be peers, because Lar was still in his training pants all the years George was active starting with the amas, George being Olympic Gold, KTFO of pro Cubans and Russians, Lar being KOed 2x by Nick Wells and later Bobick in the Olympic Trials. George being Ring ranked for the first 7 yrs of the 70s. On March 17th, 1977, the 80th anniversary of the first filmed blockbuster in history, Corbett/Fitz, George celebrated being screwed by DKing in Puerto Rico on a Thursday nite by retiring from boxing to move on to more honest work. That giant sucking sound we heard was Tubs celebrating on the undercard by taking 5 rds to dismantle Horace Robinson, 5-1, for his first DKing Ring ranking. Yup, that Horace Robinson!

When George made his 1987 comeback, Tubby Lar was vanquished from the ratings, but as soon as George had earned a ranking by 1990 and 1991 shot by Field, Tubs wanted in on the action and finally earned his only comeback ranking ranking in 1996, well under #1 George that year. George retired in 1997 still ranked with only 3 losses during his comeback, leaving the so called best trained heavyweight in history, Mr. Field, dangling like a 200lb slab of beef on meat hook hanging on George for dear life, and young studs Morrison and Biggs running for their lives from the plodding monstrous power of George, 76-5, 68 KO. Tubs retired after Butterbean knocked him down, making him hold on to the ropes to flee the humiliating count of the ref, a clear TKO loss in most every jurisdiction, but the ref let the bell save him from the further ignominy of an inferior 69-6, 44 KOs record. George never actually knocked out for a 10 count in his life, with Lar being laid cold for 5 min by Tyson who wisely ducked a big fight with Foreman since he couldn't hang on like Field or run around like Morrison or Biggs.

George with 12 Annual Ring Ranked years, Tubs with 10, all but one in George's absence. For reference, Tyson with 13, Louis with 17, Vitali with 9, and Wlad with 16.

Lar did well in his tubby split title era of tubby inferior comp while ducking all the tubby WBA champs, but his record against standing champs who actually won their belts in the ring was a miserable 0-5, I know, because I saw the whole thing play out, but silly boys gonna do what silly boys do at every swamp turnover, bubbling to the surface to pop loose into the atmosphere. Mo' global warming, only on boxrec. Well done lads!

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:- I see the boxrec swamp has turned over yet again as noxious methane/hydrogen sulfide bubble up to give birth to faerie fantasy fight dreams.



Big George and Tubby Lar are the same age, but could never be peers, because Lar was still in his training pants all the years George was active starting with the amas, George being Olympic Gold, KTFO of pro Cubans and Russians, Lar being KOed 2x by Nick Wells and later Bobick in the Olympic Trials. George being Ring ranked for the first 7 yrs of the 70s. On March 17th, 1977, the 80th anniversary of the first filmed blockbuster in history, Corbett/Fitz, George celebrated being screwed by DKing in Puerto Rico on a Thursday nite by retiring from boxing to move on to more honest work. That giant sucking sound we heard was Tubs celebrating on the undercard by taking 5 rds to dismantle Horace Robinson, 5-1, for his first DKing Ring ranking. Yup, that Horace Robinson!

When George made his 1987 comeback, Tubby Lar was vanquished from the ratings, but as soon as George had earned a ranking by 1990 and 1991 shot by Field, Tubs wanted in on the action and finally earned his only comeback ranking ranking in 1996, well under #1 George that year. George retired in 1997 still ranked with only 3 losses during his comeback, leaving the so called best trained heavyweight in history, Mr. Field, dangling like a 200lb slab of beef on meat hook hanging on George for dear life, and young studs Morrison and Biggs running for their lives from the plodding monstrous power of George, 76-5, 68 KO. Tubs retired after Butterbean knocked him down, making him hold on to the ropes to flee the humiliating count of the ref, a clear TKO loss in most every jurisdiction, but the ref let the bell save him from the further ignominy of an inferior 69-6, 44 KOs record. George never actually knocked out for a 10 count in his life, with Lar being laid cold for 5 min by Tyson who wisely ducked a big fight with Foreman since he couldn't hang on like Field or run around like Morrison or Biggs.

George with 12 Annual Ring Ranked years, Tubs with 10, all but one in George's absence. For reference, Tyson with 13, Louis with 17, Vitali with 9, and Wlad with 16.

Lar did well in his tubby split title era of tubby inferior comp while ducking all the tubby WBA champs, but his record against standing champs who actually won their belts in the ring was a miserable 0-5, I know, because I saw the whole thing play out, but silly boys gonna do what silly boys do at every swamp turnover, bubbling to the surface to pop loose into the atmosphere. Mo' global warming, only on boxrec. Well done lads!

I bet you're a hoot at parties

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:- I see the boxrec swamp has turned over yet again as noxious methane/hydrogen sulfide bubble up to give birth to faerie fantasy fight dreams.



Big George and Tubby Lar are the same age, but could never be peers, because Lar was still in his training pants all the years George was active starting with the amas, George being Olympic Gold, KTFO of pro Cubans and Russians, Lar being KOed 2x by Nick Wells and later Bobick in the Olympic Trials. George being Ring ranked for the first 7 yrs of the 70s. On March 17th, 1977, the 80th anniversary of the first filmed blockbuster in history, Corbett/Fitz, George celebrated being screwed by DKing in Puerto Rico on a Thursday nite by retiring from boxing to move on to more honest work. That giant sucking sound we heard was Tubs celebrating on the undercard by taking 5 rds to dismantle Horace Robinson, 5-1, for his first DKing Ring ranking. Yup, that Horace Robinson!

When George made his 1987 comeback, Tubby Lar was vanquished from the ratings, but as soon as George had earned a ranking by 1990 and 1991 shot by Field, Tubs wanted in on the action and finally earned his only comeback ranking ranking in 1996, well under #1 George that year. George retired in 1997 still ranked with only 3 losses during his comeback, leaving the so called best trained heavyweight in history, Mr. Field, dangling like a 200lb slab of beef on meat hook hanging on George for dear life, and young studs Morrison and Biggs running for their lives from the plodding monstrous power of George, 76-5, 68 KO. Tubs retired after Butterbean knocked him down, making him hold on to the ropes to flee the humiliating count of the ref, a clear TKO loss in most every jurisdiction, but the ref let the bell save him from the further ignominy of an inferior 69-6, 44 KOs record. George never actually knocked out for a 10 count in his life, with Lar being laid cold for 5 min by Tyson who wisely ducked a big fight with Foreman since he couldn't hang on like Field or run around like Morrison or Biggs.

George with 12 Annual Ring Ranked years, Tubs with 10, all but one in George's absence. For reference, Tyson with 13, Louis with 17, Vitali with 9, and Wlad with 16.

Lar did well in his tubby split title era of tubby inferior comp while ducking all the tubby WBA champs, but his record against standing champs who actually won their belts in the ring was a miserable 0-5, I know, because I saw the whole thing play out, but silly boys gonna do what silly boys do at every swamp turnover, bubbling to the surface to pop loose into the atmosphere. Mo' global warming, only on boxrec. Well done lads!

Holmes tried very hard to get a Foreman fight... Foreman was way too smart a businessman to fight Larry... If Jimmy Young could out-box Foreman and knock him down---Young LOST 3 of his next 4 fights after Foreman---Holmes would have a field day with Foreman... Young lost 2 fights in a row to the clever Cruiserweight, Ossie Ocasio.. Had Young won those fights he would have gotten a Larry Holmes fight... Instead, Ocasio got the Title Fight with Holmes and was flat out dominated, battered, and stopped in 7 rounds for his 1st defeat... Ocasio looked like a greenhorn vs Holmes and really got hurt in that fight.

Ray Mercer was stripped of his Heavyweight Championship (his previous Title Defense was a quick KO of defenseless Tommy Morrsion) for fighting Larry Holmes.. Mercer swung uselessly at Holmes as Larry held a conversation with ring-side reporters, "I ain't no Tommy Morrison" Holmes told them as Mercer missed shot after shot.. Morrison out-boxed Foreman of course.. Foreman's main strength was being clever in picking his opponents.. George was smart enough to stay away from clever boxers with great jabs -- such as Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes, or rematches with Young or Ali. All those guys would have boxed the piss out of him.

George was a genius if you led with your head like Norton and Frazier and let opponents shoot at it... That tactic can work with light hitting boxers.

Lesser fighters than prime Foreman found prime Holmes chin, decked him, and hurt him. Doesn't mean Foreman would do it, but it does mean he could and might do it, so I'm going with him. At least more times out of ten fights.

Yeah... Well they were both knocked out only once... Foreman by a guy who was not noted as a hitter... Holmes by one of the ATGreatest punchers ever.

Foreman was decked by Jimmy Young - no powerhouse to say the least... and he did very poorly with master boxers.. Holmes had the right style for him. Ray Mercer was a young, prime guy who had just disposed of undefeated Tommy Morrison with a brutal KO.. He was quick fisted but had a hard time landing anything of a 42 year old Holmes.. Foreman refused to fight Mercer -- and turtle slow Tommy Morrison (cherry-pick) out-sped Big George.

Kalan wrote:Yeah... Well they were both knocked out only once... Foreman by a guy who was not noted as a hitter... Holmes by one of the ATGreatest punchers ever.

Foreman was decked by Jimmy Young - no powerhouse to say the least... and he did very poorly with master boxers.. Holmes had the right style for him. Ray Mercer was a young, prime guy who had just disposed of undefeated Tommy Morrison with a brutal KO.. He was quick fisted but had a hard time landing anything of a 42 year old Holmes.. Foreman refused to fight Mercer -- and turtle slow Tommy Morrison (cherry-pick) out-sped Big George.

I guess your saying Ali was a Master Boxer ........did you realize you implied that? Just sayin'

Also.....here is an area that puzzles me....and has since you first started posting.....and I find much to agree with you about, I also find you to be rich in knowledge....by that I mean, you have many facts at your disposal....it's your processing that fascinates me at times.

For example. You seem to speak of Foremans knockdown from Young as if it happened by a single punch. Or just a few carefully delivered punches from a feather fisted fighter. When that KD was really more the result of a guy who just got knocked off balance from reaching close to exhaustion. Do you see the difference between Ron Lyle's genuine "decking" of George vs Jimmy's version of the same trick?
Foreman got back up from GENUINE KD's in shape enough to turn it around. But couldn't against Young....NOT because of being hit (in my opinion) but because he was wasting energy hitting next to nothing with Jimmy.

So that was way more of a fall down than a knock down. You say he was "decked" which conjures to my mind much more the Lyle events, than the Young event. He was tired, and Jimmy just pulled some boxing ju jitsu that got the best of him.

But I will go back and take a look, my memory may be goofing with me here.

Went back and looked at a Jimmy Young highlights reel. Lordy he was talented.


Have a look see yourself.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... o-fv-ZADDI



How do you think he'd do against Larry?

Anyway that KD was just as I described....it's masterful, but not really a "decking". More like sorcery than pugilism. Not taking anything away from Jimmy.

He just moved out of the way, used George's timing against him, and Ouila! George's knees the floor. Held up only by the ropes.

He did so well against the likes of Norton, Ali, Foreman, Lyle and Cooney.

All in all he may have racked up more superlative performances than anyone else from the era.

BoxBuzz wrote:

Kalan wrote:Yeah... Well they were both knocked out only once... Foreman by a guy who was not noted as a hitter... Holmes by one of the ATGreatest punchers ever.

Foreman was decked by Jimmy Young - no powerhouse to say the least... and he did very poorly with master boxers.. Holmes had the right style for him. Ray Mercer was a young, prime guy who had just disposed of undefeated Tommy Morrison with a brutal KO.. He was quick fisted but had a hard time landing anything of a 42 year old Holmes.. Foreman refused to fight Mercer -- and turtle slow Tommy Morrison (cherry-pick) out-sped Big George.

I guess your saying Ali was a Master Boxer ........did you realize you implied that? Just sayin'

You seem to speak of Foremans knockdown from Young as if it happened by a single punch ... NOT because of being hit (in my opinion) but because he was wasting energy hitting next to nothing with Jimmy ... So that was way more of a fall down than a knock down. You say he was "decked"[/url]

You say he WASN'T decked??? ... You're not too bright BuzzBox

Ali wasn't a master boxer the caliber of Holmes or Tunney... and neither was Jimmy Young... But they both had solid stances, good basic footwork, and could pink with their jabs.. In all aspects they were superior to Foreman, purely from a technical standpoint... Ali was a little taller and rangier -- Young a little more clever.. Had Young been clever enough to beat Ossie Ocasio he would have earned a Title Fight with Larry Holmes.. They gave Young 2 chances against Ocasio because he said he knew he could beat the Rican.. Jimmy just didn't have the power for it.. Ocasio was only 21 years old and very fast.. Holmes boxed the bejabbers out of Ocasio.. knocked the Hell out of him.. and disposed of him in 7 rounds.. Larry probably would have done the same for Young from the way he looked vs Ocasio - extremely dominant.

And Foreman fell down all right... He fell down because Young punched him in the head... That's called a knockdown,.. If you're a weak hitter like Young you don't knock a big, sturdy chinned brut like George down or out with 1 punch.. You fell him like a tree -- with 180 whacks or more.. If Foreman had a master boxing coach like Steward, along with the best nutrition, strength, and cardio specialists, I have no doubt he'd have ruled the 70's until Holmes came along.

CrazyHorse wrote:George Foreman 2 Title Defenses
Larry Holmes 20 Title Defenses

Actually Foreman made 7 defenses of the linear title:
Roman, Norton, Ali, Schulz, Grimsley, Savarese and Briggs

Kalan wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:

Kalan wrote:Yeah... Well they were both knocked out only once... Foreman by a guy who was not noted as a hitter... Holmes by one of the ATGreatest punchers ever.

Foreman was decked by Jimmy Young - no powerhouse to say the least... and he did very poorly with master boxers.. Holmes had the right style for him. Ray Mercer was a young, prime guy who had just disposed of undefeated Tommy Morrison with a brutal KO.. He was quick fisted but had a hard time landing anything of a 42 year old Holmes.. Foreman refused to fight Mercer -- and turtle slow Tommy Morrison (cherry-pick) out-sped Big George.

I guess your saying Ali was a Master Boxer ........did you realize you implied that? Just sayin'

You seem to speak of Foremans knockdown from Young as if it happened by a single punch ... NOT because of being hit (in my opinion) but because he was wasting energy hitting next to nothing with Jimmy ... So that was way more of a fall down than a knock down. You say he was "decked"[/url]

You say he WASN'T decked??? ... You're not too bright BuzzBox

Ali wasn't a master boxer the caliber of Holmes or Tunney... and neither was Jimmy Young... But they both had solid stances, good basic footwork, and could pink with their jabs.. In all aspects they were superior to Foreman, purely from a technical standpoint... Ali was a little taller and rangier -- Young a little more clever.. Had Young been clever enough to beat Ossie Ocasio he would have earned a Title Fight with Larry Holmes.. They gave Young 2 chances against Ocasio because he said he knew he could beat the Rican.. Jimmy just didn't have the power for it.. Ocasio was only 21 years old and very fast.. Holmes boxed the bejabbers out of Ocasio.. knocked the Hell out of him.. and disposed of him in 7 rounds.. Larry probably would have done the same for Young from the way he looked vs Ocasio - extremely dominant.

And Foreman fell down all right... He fell down because Young punched him in the head... That's called a knockdown,.. If you're a weak hitter like Young you don't knock a big, sturdy chinned brut like George down or out with 1 punch.. You fell him like a tree -- with 180 whacks or more.. If Foreman had a master boxing coach like Steward, along with the best nutrition, strength, and cardio specialists, I have no doubt he'd have ruled the 70's until Holmes came along.

You shift from literal to metaphorical on a dime. It's a very slippery style of communication you use. I think you understand, but you'd rather change the subject and attack the person attempting to engage you in a conversation.

I think we are on the same page regarding Young....but somehow you seem him as less talented than I do....at least that's my take after reading your contribution. And Young was probably only a few head ducks out of the ring short of winning that fight with Ali. Which wasn't clever at all. And he really did well against Norton don't you think? Did you think Norton deserved the nod in that fight? After the fight, referee Carlos Padilla said, "If I had had a vote, I would have voted for Young."

Young was a very talented guy without massive discipline or commitment... Young out-boxed Norton and Ali---but lacked the assertion and courage he displayed versus Foreman.. I had him winning those fights handily -- but you always hear trainers say judges aren't rational. They're supposed to focus on effective punches landed -- but if they think you're running or not engaging they'll ding you.. You have to be the man, not the fraidy-cat -- whether you land more punches or not... It shouldn't be that way, but you have to live in the real world.

All Young needed to get a Holmes fight was beat Ossie Ocasio ... The Rican was quick, but lacked experience. Young should have beaten him. After those 2 losses the air went out of Jimmy... God said "I want hot or cold. Don't give me lukewarm." ... You can't be a half-hearted boxer and be successful... If Young had the ambition and work ethic of a Tunney, Holmes, or Klitschko he would have been very successful.

holmes was in the end the better and
smarter boxer, plus he could dig real
deep, like he proved against shavers.

in the end george foreman was a very
strong man, but not a great boxer,
unlike larry holmes. i have no idea
how a meeting in their second comings
would have turned out, but prime for
prime larry frustrates george too much
with his jab and the ability to take a
punch. more than anything this was
what psyched out george against ali.
the fella was just not falling.

Kalan wrote:Young was a very talented guy without massive discipline or commitment... Young out-boxed Norton and Ali---but lacked the assertion and courage he displayed versus Foreman.. I had him winning those fights handily -- but you always hear trainers say judges aren't rational. They're supposed to focus on effective punches landed -- but if they think you're running or not engaging they'll ding you.. You have to be the man, not the fraidy-cat -- whether you land more punches or not... It shouldn't be that way, but you have to live in the real world.

All Young needed to get a Holmes fight was beat Ossie Ocasio ... The Rican was quick, but lacked experience. Young should have beaten him. After those 2 losses the air went out of Jimmy... God said "I want hot or cold. Don't give me lukewarm." ... You can't be a half-hearted boxer and be successful... If Young had the ambition and work ethic of a Tunney, Holmes, or Klitschko he would have been very successful.

Eureeka! I understood that....I must be improving. Also, I think you could argue that for overall performance during that era, he just might be at the top of the list. Despite his record, and lack of enthusiasm.

Because he had so many losses you have to put Holmes ahead of him... Larry had better resistance, a more punishing and slicker jab, and a harder punch.

Holmes was NOT Ali. He didn't have the quickness, reflexes, footwork, flow, chin, or durability of Ali. They weren't even alike. They primarily boxed behind a jab (Ali more often than Holmes). That's about the only similarity.

Holmes would not fair well in Zaire like Ali did.

Foreman knockout 4-5.

Mr.DW wrote:Holmes was NOT Ali. He didn't have the quickness, reflexes, footwork, flow, chin, or durability of Ali. They weren't even alike. They primarily boxed behind a jab (Ali more often than Holmes). That's about the only similarity.

Holmes would not fair well in Zaire like Ali did.

Foreman knockout 4-5.

i am not so sure. prime for prime
larry is one of the very few people
who give muhammad a difficult
night.