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Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 14:44
by Rover
scartissue wrote:hhaehre wrote:Jaclem wrote:..kidding about what?
About Mathews being a manufactured fighter. I've never heard anyone say that about Mathews nor does his record look anything like that of a protected manufactured fighter. His record looks fairly typical of that era, fighting every other month or so against an assortment of fighters ranging from journeyman to world class. Maybe he didn't deserve his crack at Marciano but I guess he qualified by beating Rex Layne. A manufactured fighter would probably not be matched with a top contender before given a shot at the title.
Actually Matthews did not get a crack at Marciano's title, it was Marciano just before his shot at Walcott. I believe that was what got Rocky his title shot. I think Matthews was alright BTW, as a matter of fact, Don Cockell got his shot by beating Matthews. I would not call Harry manufactured.
I will say who was manufactured and that was Jose 'The Threat' Baret. Can't recall where he came out - whether it was Venezuela or the DR - but he ran off a string over no-hopers and had everyone buzzing until he stepped up against Marlon Starling and was promptly blown away. The mags then changed their tune and started referring to him as 'Not yet' Baret or 'No sweat' Baret. Then he he gets stopped by coke-fiend Floyd Mayweather Sr. (OK I'm being harsh). He was all attack and a good counter-puncher could poke holes in him. He quickly spiraled right down the same avenue he came up.
Yeah, that is what got Rocky the title shot.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 15:32
by montrealsuper
Have heard from reliable sources that both Ali-Liston bouts were manufactured, at least on the one side.
Have to put Mayweather post lightweight under the manufactured category too. Been very careful about maintaining that fraudulent 0.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 15:35
by gilgamesh
montrealsuper wrote:Have heard from reliable sources that both Ali-Liston bouts were manufactured, at least on the one side.
Have to put Mayweather post lightweight under the manufactured category too. Been very careful about maintaining that fraudulent 0.
Yeah Oscar De La Hoya, Shane Mosley, Miguel Cotto, Zab Judah, Ricky Hatton, Juan Manuel Marquez...what a bunch of bums
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 15:38
by Rover
gilgamesh wrote:montrealsuper wrote:Have heard from reliable sources that both Ali-Liston bouts were manufactured, at least on the one side.
Have to put Mayweather post lightweight under the manufactured category too. Been very careful about maintaining that fraudulent 0.
Yeah Oscar De La Hoya, Shane Mosley, Miguel Cotto, Zab Judah, Ricky Hatton, Juan Manuel Marquez...what a bunch of bums
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 15:46
by Rover
Oh yeah, I remember him. His fight with Miguel Angel Gonzalez headlined the Los Conquistadores PPV, and for whatever reason the PPV went off in the middle of the 11th round.
Anyway, good call on him. I also remember when Chavez smoked him in a tuneup before Haugen.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 15:51
by Rover
I think a couple of Tito's victims deserve a mention: Hugo Pineda and Larry Barnes. Both had great records (36-1 and 39-1) going into the Tito fight. Neither had beaten anyone of note. Both were blown away in four rounds. Neither did anything of note after Tito.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 15:53
by gilgamesh
Rover wrote:I think a couple of Tito's victims deserve a mention: Hugo Pineda and Larry Barnes. Both had great records (36-1 and 39-1) going into the Tito fight. Neither had beaten anyone of note. Both were blown away in four rounds. Neither did anything of note after Tito.
Good shouts, I have both of those fights. I remember looking up their records once and you're right. Nothing of note there.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 16:04
by Rover
Another one who comes to mind: Buck Smith.
I can't believe I didn't think of him earlier.
Lord, what a padded record. He was beaten every time he stepped up and feasted on club fighters.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 16:16
by zorndeslammes
Actually Hugo Pineda/Glen Johnson is entirely watchable, even if predictable.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 16:43
by Rover
Gotta give a shout out to Jay Bell, who fought McClellan. Somehow he piled up a 17-1-1 record and got to #8 WBC while feasting on weak comp. His title try was short...very short.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 16:53
by Rover
How about Terry Thomas. Boy, he sure had a nice record. His nose wasn't looking too nice when ole Duran got done with it. Thomas also got stopped by a shot Chavez nearly a decade later.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 16:54
by gilgamesh
Rover wrote:Gotta give a shout out to Jay Bell, who fought McClellan. Somehow he piled up a 17-1-1 record and got to #8 WBC while feasting on weak comp. His title try was short...very short.
Wasn't he done in by a bodyshot in less than a minute?
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 16:57
by Rover
gilgamesh wrote:Rover wrote:Gotta give a shout out to Jay Bell, who fought McClellan. Somehow he piled up a 17-1-1 record and got to #8 WBC while feasting on weak comp. His title try was short...very short.
Wasn't he done in by a bodyshot in less than a minute?
It was either 20 or 30 seconds; can't remember.
The funny thing is that the other fight on that card (televised on Showtime) was Tito/Garcia, which didn't get out of the first either.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 17:00
by gilgamesh
Rover wrote:gilgamesh wrote:Rover wrote:Gotta give a shout out to Jay Bell, who fought McClellan. Somehow he piled up a 17-1-1 record and got to #8 WBC while feasting on weak comp. His title try was short...very short.
Wasn't he done in by a bodyshot in less than a minute?
It was either 20 or 30 seconds; can't remember.
The funny thing is that the other fight on that card (televised on Showtime) was Tito/Garcia, which didn't get out of the first either.
Yeah that's the dude that Tito drops 3 or 4 times in the first right? I remember that one mostly for Ferdie Pacheco going "He needs to stop this fight...what's the matter with him, what's the matter with him?" at the referee allowing it to keep going after it was so clearly a mismatch that needed to be stopped ASAP.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 17:07
by Rover
Garcia was down 4 times.
The thing I remember most about that card wasn't either fight but the pre-fight talk with King. Tyson's appeal had just been denied by a 2:1 vote in Indiana of his rape conviction. It was hilarious listening to King try to play legal analyst and pronounce big legal words.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 17:28
by zorndeslammes
Did Faruq Saleem or David Rodriguez make it on the list? Because they're obvious versions.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 17:39
by Rover
zorndeslammes wrote:Did Faruq Saleem or David Rodriguez make it on the list? Because they're obvious versions.
I mentioned Rodriguez but forgot Saleem. Good call.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 18:59
by Rover
Jack Callahan deserves a mention. He built up an undefeated record fighting nobodies, got a title shot v. Hilton and got blown out in 2 rounds. He was 37 at that point and did nothing of note in the ring after that.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 19:15
by Boxing Prospect
Roman Greenberg seems to fall in to the mould of your built up Heavyweight.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 19:16
by Rover
Boxing Prospect wrote:Roman Greenberg seems to fall in to the mould of your built up Heavyweight.
Yeah.
Crawford Grimsley also deserves a shout.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 19:26
by gilgamesh
Rover wrote:Boxing Prospect wrote:Roman Greenberg seems to fall in to the mould of your built up Heavyweight.
Yeah.
Crawford Grimsley also deserves a shout.
The only thing I ever saw of Crawford Grimsley was his KO loss to Jimmy Thunder which I'm pretty sure is the fastest KO in Boxing history. I don't see how it could be done any faster.
First punch of the fight, Grimsley down, fight over.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 19:36
by Rover
gilgamesh wrote:Rover wrote:Boxing Prospect wrote:Roman Greenberg seems to fall in to the mould of your built up Heavyweight.
Yeah.
Crawford Grimsley also deserves a shout.
The only thing I ever saw of Crawford Grimsley was his KO loss to Jimmy Thunder which I'm pretty sure is the fastest KO in Boxing history. I don't see how it could be done any faster.
First punch of the fight, Grimsley down, fight over.
He was 20-0 and got a fight with Foreman.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 19:38
by gilgamesh
Rover wrote:gilgamesh wrote:
The only thing I ever saw of Crawford Grimsley was his KO loss to Jimmy Thunder which I'm pretty sure is the fastest KO in Boxing history. I don't see how it could be done any faster.
First punch of the fight, Grimsley down, fight over.
He was 20-0 and got a fight with Foreman.
I assume Foreman stopped him inside 3 rounds huh?
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 19:42
by Rover
gilgamesh wrote:Rover wrote:gilgamesh wrote:
The only thing I ever saw of Crawford Grimsley was his KO loss to Jimmy Thunder which I'm pretty sure is the fastest KO in Boxing history. I don't see how it could be done any faster.
First punch of the fight, Grimsley down, fight over.
He was 20-0 and got a fight with Foreman.
I assume Foreman stopped him inside 3 rounds huh?
Won a decision, actually. It took place in Japan. Canizales/Reyes II and Morrison/Rhode (post-HIV discovery) were on the undercard.
Re: Manufactured Fighters
Posted: 23 Jul 2013, 19:45
by gilgamesh
Rover wrote:
Won a decision, actually. It took place in Japan. Canizales/Reyes II and Morrison/Rhode (post-HIV discovery) were on the undercard.
So Jimmy Thunder stops the guy with one punch and Foreman couldn't stop him?
Who would've thought it.