BoxRec

mickey1975 wrote:

columbo wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:Froch has an elite chin, there is no doubt about it, but people are going on like its impossible to hurt him. Taylor dropped him like a sack of spuds, but perhaps more tellingly, Kessler shook him to his boots in the 11th of their last fight. If Groves catches him with a shot like he hit Smith with, he will go. Wether he gets up again or not is a different question.

I dunno. Froch isnt Smith. Whilst Kessler did rock Froch in the 11th he recovered very quickly. In regards to Taylor, his power is underrated I think. Pavlik only went down once in his career and that was also to Taylor and he'd been in with Miranda when he was in his prime.

He may not be Smith, but Smith isn't chinny. That was one of the best shots I have seen. Don't know if it was lucky or not. That would have done for almost anyone.

I dont think Smith is chinny per se but im not convinced his chin is that solid. He was stopped by Degale who isnt a huge puncher and he looked slightly buzzed a couple of times against Dodson in the last fight.

Deserter wrote:

columbo wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:Froch has an elite chin, there is no doubt about it, but people are going on like its impossible to hurt him. Taylor dropped him like a sack of spuds, but perhaps more tellingly, Kessler shook him to his boots in the 11th of their last fight. If Groves catches him with a shot like he hit Smith with, he will go. Wether he gets up again or not is a different question.

I dunno. Froch isnt Smith. Whilst Kessler did rock Froch in the 11th he recovered very quickly.

Exactly. Most who get hit with Kessler's right hand never recover, so if anything it was further testament to Carl's durability.

I'm not slagging Carl of here, but just pointing out he can be hurt. I think the shot that did for Smith would have a bigger effect on Carl than the one from Kessler.

DeGale stopped him on his feet. In not trying to say Smith has a chin equal to Froch by the way...

SNG wrote:Dirrell hurt him too, so did Bute according to Froch himself.

Dirrell caught him on the temple which momentarily made his legs go but again he recovered quickly. Regarding Bute Ive seen Froch talk about that fight and I dont remember him ever saying he truely hurt against Bute. He said he could punch for sure but he never looked rocked to me in that fight. If anything he was walking through Bute's punches to land combinations.

mickey1975 wrote:DeGale stopped him on his feet. In not trying to say Smith has a chin equal to Froch by the way...

He was stopped on his feet but he was still getting rocked quite badly and it was only a matter of time by the looks of things.

columbo wrote:

SNG wrote:Dirrell hurt him too, so did Bute according to Froch himself.

Dirrell caught him on the temple which momentarily made his legs go but again he recovered quickly. Regarding Bute Ive seen Froch talk about that fight and I dont remember him ever saying he truely hurt against Bute. He said he could punch for sure but he never looked rocked to me in that fight. If anything he was walking through Bute's punches to land combinations.

He said post fight that Bute hurt him at one point. Dirrell sent him stumbling back for the ropes in the tenth. I don't care how good his chin is if Groves lanads a combo like against Sierra Froch will go down.

SNG wrote:

columbo wrote:

SNG wrote:Dirrell hurt him too, so did Bute according to Froch himself.

Dirrell caught him on the temple which momentarily made his legs go but again he recovered quickly. Regarding Bute Ive seen Froch talk about that fight and I dont remember him ever saying he truely hurt against Bute. He said he could punch for sure but he never looked rocked to me in that fight. If anything he was walking through Bute's punches to land combinations.

He said post fight that Bute hurt him at one point. Dirrell sent him stumbling back for the ropes in the tenth. I don't care how good his chin is if Groves lanads a combo like against Sierra Froch will go down.

He's got to land that combo though. Froch is a far better fighter than Sierra. Talking of that fight though Groves was having trouble dealing with Sierra's jab in that fight and Froch is equally rangy and throws a lot of jabs. Even Kessler said that dealing with Froch's arm length was very difficult.

columbo wrote: He's got to land that combo though. Froch is a far better fighter than Sierra. Talking of that fight though Groves was having trouble dealing with Sierra's jab in that fight and Froch is equally rangy and throws a lot of jabs. Even Kessler said that dealing with Froch's arm length was very difficult.

Yes he does, but my point is that the power is there and Froch's chin can't take everything.

SNG wrote:

columbo wrote: He's got to land that combo though. Froch is a far better fighter than Sierra. Talking of that fight though Groves was having trouble dealing with Sierra's jab in that fight and Froch is equally rangy and throws a lot of jabs. Even Kessler said that dealing with Froch's arm length was very difficult.

Yes he does, but my point is that the power is there and Froch's chin can't take everything.

I dont doubt that Groves can punch. However it's impossible to tell how good a puncher someone is until they step up to that next level. I think you even said that about Froch a little while back. He knocked a lot of guys out at domestic level but he wasnt knocking guys out to the same extent at the top level.

SNG wrote:

columbo wrote: He's got to land that combo though. Froch is a far better fighter than Sierra. Talking of that fight though Groves was having trouble dealing with Sierra's jab in that fight and Froch is equally rangy and throws a lot of jabs. Even Kessler said that dealing with Froch's arm length was very difficult.

Yes he does, but my point is that the power is there and Froch's chin can't take everything.

...Said all of the 5 or 6 punchers Froch has beaten who crack harder, and are overall a lot better than Groves.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

SNG wrote:

columbo wrote: He's got to land that combo though. Froch is a far better fighter than Sierra. Talking of that fight though Groves was having trouble dealing with Sierra's jab in that fight and Froch is equally rangy and throws a lot of jabs. Even Kessler said that dealing with Froch's arm length was very difficult.

Yes he does, but my point is that the power is there and Froch's chin can't take everything.

...Said all of the 5 or 6 punchers Froch has beaten who crack harder, and are overall a lot better than Groves.

I struggle to see 6 or even 5 top punchers who Froch has beaten, especially five or six who hit harder than Groves. You're right though, it's easier saying it than it is to do it, but I don't see the problem in pointing this out.

How come Froch-Groves isn't listed in their records?

I said before the Taylor fight that he hit hard enough to hurt Froch, and I reckon Groves does too - at least to get his respect, which is a massive key in this fight.

No matter how great someone's chin is, it can't last forever. Alan Minter had a terrific chin, then got flattened by the young pretender, Tony Sibson.

But I agree that Groves doesn't have the best of chins, but like most good boxers who are weak in that area, he has a serious punch on him. De Gale has a great chin too I reckon.

Groves by KO? Really? Surely the only way Groves can win this is if he successfully replicates Andre Ward's style and fitness level.

Neither is happening any time soon.

mickey1975 wrote:

columbo wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:Froch has an elite chin, there is no doubt about it, but people are going on like its impossible to hurt him. Taylor dropped him like a sack of spuds, but perhaps more tellingly, Kessler shook him to his boots in the 11th of their last fight. If Groves catches him with a shot like he hit Smith with, he will go. Wether he gets up again or not is a different question.

I dunno. Froch isnt Smith. Whilst Kessler did rock Froch in the 11th he recovered very quickly. In regards to Taylor, his power is underrated I think. Pavlik only went down once in his career and that was also to Taylor and he'd been in with Miranda when he was in his prime.

He may not be Smith, but Smith isn't chinny. That was one of the best shots I have seen. Don't know if it was lucky or not. That would have done for almost anyone.

Groves hit Sierra with as hard a punch I have seen a 12 stone man throw, iron jaw or not, if Groves lands flush then Carl will do a dance.

Groves has done nothing to suggest he is a big puncher at world level, or at least a big enough puncher to even get the respect of Froch, let alone hurt him.

Nothing!

Sierra? Paul Smith? Give me a break. Please.

Froch is not going to be troubled once in this fight.

Riddick Blowe wrote:Groves has done nothing to suggest he is a big puncher at world level.

Nothing!

Sierra? Paul Smith? Give me a break. Please.

Bute had done nothing to suggest that he was such a tough man, when Froch beat him people were quick to say that he is a destroyer; it was the first time Bute had been hit hard. Groves hits hard and Froch is not a defensive wizard; this will be a good fight.

Kilburn wrote:Groves by KO? Really? Surely the only way Groves can win this is if he successfully replicates Andre Ward's style and fitness level.

Neither is happening any time soon.

As unlikely as it may seem, and to coin an annoying boxing saying, you just never know with boxing.

palooka wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:Groves has done nothing to suggest he is a big puncher at world level.

Nothing!

Sierra? Paul Smith? Give me a break. Please.

Bute had done nothing to suggest that he was such a tough man, when Froch beat him people were quick to say that he is a destroyer; it was the first time Bute had been hit hard. Groves hits hard and Froch is not a defensive wizard; this will be a good fight.

I think people were most impressed with the way Froch bossed the fight with Bute from start to finish. Not just the power in his shots.

palooka wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:Groves has done nothing to suggest he is a big puncher at world level.

Nothing!

Sierra? Paul Smith? Give me a break. Please.

Bute had done nothing to suggest that he was such a tough man, when Froch beat him people were quick to say that he is a destroyer; it was the first time Bute had been hit hard. Groves hits hard and Froch is not a defensive wizard; this will be a good fight.

Bute had solid wins over Andrade, Bika, Miranda. Even his second tier wins like Salem are better than everyone Groves has beat bar Degale, who was green at the time, and never that good anyway (and it was a close fight in which Groves hardly fought convincingly).

Bute was the recognised number 2 in the division when Froch beat him. Groves is what? Who has Groves beaten?

jameswilson wrote: As unlikely as it may seem, and to coin an annoying boxing saying, you just never know with boxing.

That's true, but 'you never know' isn't a very satisfying basis for debate.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

palooka wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:Groves has done nothing to suggest he is a big puncher at world level.

Nothing!

Sierra? Paul Smith? Give me a break. Please.

Bute had done nothing to suggest that he was such a tough man, when Froch beat him people were quick to say that he is a destroyer; it was the first time Bute had been hit hard. Groves hits hard and Froch is not a defensive wizard; this will be a good fight.

Bute had solid wins over Andrade, Bika, Miranda. Even his second tier wins like Salem are better than everyone Groves has beat bar Degale, who was green at the time, and never that good anyway (and it was a close fight in which Groves hardly fought convincingly).

Bute was the recognised number 2 in the division when Froch beat him. Groves is what? Who has Groves beaten?

So who do you think is going to win?

Are you kidding?

Riddick Blowe wrote:Are you kidding?

I was , I can see your point of view and think that Groves is improving, enough to give Froch a real go; I also think that Groves defects are highlighted whereas only the best bits of Froch are being noticed. Sierra and Smith are not elite men but they are tough and competitive, Froch is not invincible and 2 men have found a way to beat him and Ward would beat him again and again. I am not saying that Groves is as good as Ward or better than Kessler - I think he can find a way to beat Carl and I think he hits as hard as anyone in the division. If Froch walks through him I will be amazed.

Kilburn wrote:Groves by KO? Really? Surely the only way Groves can win this is if he successfully replicates Andre Ward's style and fitness level.

Neither is happening any time soon.

No I don't see that happening, just think Groves hits hard enough to get Carl's respect. If I was betting the house you'd have to go with Carl, by KO, but Groves is a very live underdog.

Eff me

I really hope the bookies are swallowing some of the nonsense on this thread !