Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 00:11
And here come the excuses.
BoxRec
Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
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Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 05:10
Well done giancarlo...well noted...take the blinkers off of these guys...i have as much respect for frazier as i do of ali in retiring on their stool...both would have continued make no mistake about that...respect guys eh?
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 06:00
That's the problem with these guys evrenb, their mantra is simply "Ali bad, Joe good".evrenb wrote:Well done giancarlo...well noted...take the blinkers off of these guys...i have as much respect for frazier as i do of ali in retiring on their stool...both would have continued make no mistake about that...respect guys eh?
Even when both fighters have taken the same action, in their hate-filled minds, Ali is a dirty swine for doing it and Joe is a hero.
You can't reason with them. They are not intelligent enough.
They do enjoy a good beating every week though and I am usually happy to oblige.
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 06:24
Looks like you found a blow buddy, Giancarlo.Giancarlo wrote:That's the problem with these guys evrenb, their mantra is simply "Ali bad, Joe good".evrenb wrote:Well done giancarlo...well noted...take the blinkers off of these guys...i have as much respect for frazier as i do of ali in retiring on their stool...both would have continued make no mistake about that...respect guys eh?
Even when both fighters have taken the same action, in their hate-filled minds, Ali is a dirty swine for doing it and Joe is a hero.
You can't reason with them. They are not intelligent enough.
They do enjoy a good beating every week though and I am usually happy to oblige.
And of similar IQ.
(hint, not too high
)One retirement on the stool was a glorious, monumental effort, with the opponent wanting to do the same. A true fight had occurred, even though the skill levels had clearly diminished from The Big One.
At Manila, the public got their money's worth.
The other retirement was an extremely humiliating mercy kill after a shameful defraud of the public had occurred.
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 06:35
Im not anyones buddy, especially a 'blow buddy'...what a ghastly thought. .do you have to be so smutty? And making sweeping, unsubstantiated remarks is hardly endearing....is it?
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 07:40
evrenb wrote:Im not anyones buddy, especially a 'blow buddy'...what a ghastly thought. .do you have to be so smutty? And making sweeping, unsubstantiated remarks is hardly endearing....is it?
I wouldn't get within 1000 miles of Giancarlo either.
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 09:10
Il Duce wrote:Muhammad Ali was presented with an $8,000,000 Gift, which may have been cut down
to $6,100,000 by Don King.
Muhammad Ali's Manager - Herbert Muhammad who typically would get 30%, dropped his
Manager/Advisor fee down to 15%.
Larry Holmes was promised $4,000,000 - but I also think his Fight Purse was cut down
somewhat.
In training for this bout, Larry Holmes was on Fight-Plan of throwing 75 Jabs per Round,
and he never deviated from that routine.
As Jody Ballard said, 'Muhammad Ali will end up quitting on his stool, as Larry ain't wasting
his time by throwing right-hand bombs to take him out early. Quitting on your stool is
the worst kind of beating.'
Can I have a citation for that quotation so I can satisfy my own curiosity as to your veracity?
As to the "quitting on your stool" remark many boxers have quit on their stools and most of them weren't thirty eight year old men, two years removed from retirement, exhibiting signs of Parkinson's Disease, and drained from diuretics.
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 09:17
IMHO, the last version of Ali that could have beat Holmes died in Manila. I do think the Ali who had wars with Norton and Shavers was cagey enough to go the distance with Holmes and lose.
I don't know if it's apocryphal or not but a young Mike Tyson , I think he was only sixteen at the time, told Ali he would avenge his old man loss to Larry Holmes, and avenge it in spectacular fashion he did.
I don't know if it's apocryphal or not but a young Mike Tyson , I think he was only sixteen at the time, told Ali he would avenge his old man loss to Larry Holmes, and avenge it in spectacular fashion he did.
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 09:27
Since I'm on a roll it wasn't Muhammad Ali who stopped the fight. It wasn't even Angelo Dundee. It was his manager. Herbert Muhammad, who was sitting in the fifth row who had seen enough.
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 09:34
Ali was cooked at that point but the fact he was walking around at 250 pounds isn't dispositive. Lots of fighters walk around at weights even fuirther removed from their fighting weights. I don't get it and I'm sure it's not optimum for their health or performance.
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 10:26
What are the opinions of Larry's effort during the fight?
Did he hold back out of respect for Ali?
That is what I've always believed. Am I mistaken?
If that was the case, why would anybody be mad at Larry and want revenge?
Did he hold back out of respect for Ali?
That is what I've always believed. Am I mistaken?
If that was the case, why would anybody be mad at Larry and want revenge?
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 10:43
Hiyancey wrote:What are the opinions of Larry's effort during the fight?
Did he hold back out of respect for Ali?
That is what I've always believed. Am I mistaken?
If that was the case, why would anybody be mad at Larry and want revenge?
I think Holmes held back somewhat. I think Holmes was shocked that Ali was so weak and uncompetitive. Ali was in early stages of parkinson syndrome. Saw an interview not long after this fight and he was very slow mechanically and was definitely suffering from some cognitive impairment.
It is funny you say that about people being mad at Larry. . . my mothers least favourite fighter (and she is quite a boxing fan) is Larry Holmes. When I ask her why...well you know the answer lol
evrenb
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 11:07
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your left handed
your left handed
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 11:27
yancey wrote:What are the opinions of Larry's effort during the fight?
Did he hold back out of respect for Ali?
That is what I've always believed. Am I mistaken?
If that was the case, why would anybody be mad at Larry and want revenge?
You have to ask Tyson. Larry was conflicted. But Giachetti told him he needed to get Ali out of there. Larry went up to Ali's suite after the fight to tell him he loved him and he taught him everything he knows. Ali asked him then why did you beat me up like that.
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 11:34
lol that cracks me up. .ThatOne wrote:yancey wrote:What are the opinions of Larry's effort during the fight?
Did he hold back out of respect for Ali?
That is what I've always believed. Am I mistaken?
If that was the case, why would anybody be mad at Larry and want revenge?
You have to ask Tyson. Larry was conflicted. But Giachetti told him he needed to get Ali out of there. Larry went up to Ali's suite after the fight to tell him he loved him and he taught him everything he knows. Ali asked him then why did you beat me up like that.
I remember prior to the Holmes vs Tyson fight, Ali was introduced to the audience and then walked over to Mike and whispered something in his ear...hmm wonder what that was...
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 11:36
evrenb wrote:lol that cracks me up. .ThatOne wrote:yancey wrote:What are the opinions of Larry's effort during the fight?
Did he hold back out of respect for Ali?
That is what I've always believed. Am I mistaken?
If that was the case, why would anybody be mad at Larry and want revenge?
You have to ask Tyson. Larry was conflicted. But Giachetti told him he needed to get Ali out of there. Larry went up to Ali's suite after the fight to tell him he loved him and he taught him everything he knows. Ali asked him then why did you beat me up like that.
I remember prior to the Holmes vs Tyson fight, Ali was introduced to the audience and then walked over to Mike and whispered something in his ear...hmm wonder what that was...
Tyson explained that he was 14 when D'Amato took him and Jay Bright, a longtime member of Tyson's inner circle, from their home in Catskill, N.Y., to Albany to watch on closed circuit as Holmes retained the title in a 1980 destruction of the faded Muhammad Ali. Tyson even recalled the exact date: Oct. 2.
"I was offended by how bad he beat up Ali," Tyson said. "When we drove home to Catskill [about an hour from Albany], nobody in the car said a word, we were all so upset. The next morning, Cus was on the phone with Muhammad Ali after taking this shellacking from Holmes. He said to Ali, 'I have this young black kid who is going to be heavyweight champion someday and I want you to talk to him.'"
Tyson got on the phone and said he told Ali, "'When I grow up, I'll fight Holmes and I'll get him back for you.' I was 14 at the time."
When Tyson did meet Holmes seven years later, Ali was a guest at the fight. Tyson said Ali whispered to him beforehand, "Remember what you said -- get him for me."
http://espn.go.com/blog/dan-rafael/post ... eer-boxing
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 11:59
evrenb wrote:Im not anyones buddy, especially a 'blow buddy'...what a ghastly thought. .do you have to be so smutty? And making sweeping, unsubstantiated remarks is hardly endearing....is it?
For a 70 year old, he has a very dirty mouth.
Just pray he doesn't start hounding you with PMs...
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 01 Sep 2013, 22:53
Makes you wonder why one of these guys didn't say something when he started training for the fight.
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 02 Sep 2013, 00:52
having only ever watched a small amount of the fight(didn't really see the point/need to continue watching.) I have no idea how bad it gets but if the first couple of rounds were an indicator I would imagine it only got worse. Trainers are stuck in such a shit situation when it is like that, especially a white trainer when Ali had his team and Don King running the show I it would make it extra shitty. I do wonder if maybe he wanted to stop it earlier but was told not to or else, those kind of tactics I wouldn't put past King or Herbert Muhammad.Il Duce wrote:I think Mr. Angelo Dundee should have made the 'Hard, but right decision', by tellingp4p1 wrote:Makes you wonder why one of these guys didn't say something when he started training for the fight.
Muhammad Ali in the corner between Rounds 5 and 6, I'm letting it go 'One More Round',
and if I don't see anything, I'm stopping it.
Instead, he made the 'Easy, wrong decision', by letting his fighter go back out there
with nothing but a 'broken spirit'.
Even the chants of 'Ali, Ali, Ali' by the fans was 'half-hearted'.
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 02 Sep 2013, 03:11
Holmes/Ali in Rio...interesting.
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 02 Sep 2013, 10:34
They did. Dundee didn't want to work the fight, and tried to talk him out of it. He claims he only took the job in the end because he was sure Ali would fight anyway, and figured at least if he was there, he could do his best to protect him. I don't know about Bundini.p4p1 wrote:Makes you wonder why one of these guys didn't say something when he started training for the fight.
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 02 Sep 2013, 16:26
Wow, if that stadium had been filled it would've shattered the Chavez/Haugen attendance record.Il Duce wrote:Yes, and in a 165,000 seat capacity Stadium for July 11, 1980.Rover wrote:Holmes/Ali in Rio...interesting.
But, the Brazilian Boxing Commission had scouts checking out the condition of
Muhammad Ali in May 1980.
The report back,,,,,,,,,,,,Muhammad Ali ........FALA SERIO !
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 02 Sep 2013, 18:19
You seem to be a boxing historian. Can you please give the rest of us the scuttlebutt on Holmes-Spinks l, Holmes-Spinks ll, Holmes-Tyson, Holmes-Holyfield, Holmes-McCall, Homes-Nielsen, and of course, Holmes-Esch.Il Duce wrote:Between Rounds 5 and 6,
Muhammad Ali was 'totally dejected', as every trick and ploy he had tried failed miserably.
The look on his face was one of 'defeat', and he still had 10-Rounds to go.
The skills were no longer there, and he had tried to fool himself into thinking that some
kind of 'Magic' would be sprinkled on him to give him special powers to defeat a younger,
faster and stronger man.
In the corner, Chief Second - Angelo Dundee had 'nothing', other than to wipe Muhammad Ali's
face and douse him with some Ice Cold water.
The only voice from Mr. Dundee, was 'Are you all right Muhammad.'
Anybody with a sense of compassion knew Muhammad Ali was looking for someone to help him
by ending this senseless beating.
From the former Champion, no response and absolutely no joy in his face. As Drew 'Bundini' Brown
uttered a few words of encouragement, the look in Muhammad Ali's face was one of 'bleakness'.
Even before Round 6 had started, Broadcast Announcer - Howard Cosell said that the bout was
'No Contest', and that the only friend Muhammad Ali had was the 'Ropes'.
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 02 Sep 2013, 18:38
I like boxing history, but Holmes/Butterbean...no thanks.:)ThatOne wrote:You seem to be a boxing historian. Can you please give the rest of us the scuttlebutt on Holmes-Spinks l, Holmes-Spinks ll, Holmes-Tyson, Holmes-Holyfield, Holmes-McCall, Homes-Nielsen, and of course, Holmes-Esch.Il Duce wrote:Between Rounds 5 and 6,
Muhammad Ali was 'totally dejected', as every trick and ploy he had tried failed miserably.
The look on his face was one of 'defeat', and he still had 10-Rounds to go.
The skills were no longer there, and he had tried to fool himself into thinking that some
kind of 'Magic' would be sprinkled on him to give him special powers to defeat a younger,
faster and stronger man.
In the corner, Chief Second - Angelo Dundee had 'nothing', other than to wipe Muhammad Ali's
face and douse him with some Ice Cold water.
The only voice from Mr. Dundee, was 'Are you all right Muhammad.'
Anybody with a sense of compassion knew Muhammad Ali was looking for someone to help him
by ending this senseless beating.
From the former Champion, no response and absolutely no joy in his face. As Drew 'Bundini' Brown
uttered a few words of encouragement, the look in Muhammad Ali's face was one of 'bleakness'.
Even before Round 6 had started, Broadcast Announcer - Howard Cosell said that the bout was
'No Contest', and that the only friend Muhammad Ali had was the 'Ropes'.
Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'
Posted: 03 Sep 2013, 20:25
#1- I actually landed one (lol)Giancarlo wrote:HomoHenry, are you the only "pro boxer" who has never actually landed a punch on an opponent?
You notice I put the term "pro boxer" in inverted commas, my dull friend?
That's because buying a licence thru the mail without any experience even of sparring, begging 6th rate 'trainers' to get you a fight, annoying them so much with your blow-hard "get me anybody" bluster over the 'net that they put you forward against a guy who was a real pro boxer, does not make you a pro boxer. It makes you a jackass.
And call me a racist again and I'll be putting my boot right up your big fat stupid manic-depressive hillbilly arse.
Jesus Bless indeed!
#2- Of course I do, but then again where are any of your fights to be viewed and be open to criticism?
#3- I got my license at an mma event in Celina, Ohio. I dont recall begging anyone, but saying "Hey, if you really are doing these novice pro fights in Arkansas sign me up!".... and hey, some people commended me for facing who I did, said I had balls the size of grape fruits---- I cant say the same of others (including yourself) who probably never taken a risk in your life.
#4- And you are a racist, a bigot and a homophobe. Now what are you going to do? If you feel frog, just leap.... through the computer screen
And yes, Jesus help you.