BoxRec

Syntax Error wrote:

evrenb wrote:I think ali was suffering from parkinsons earlier in the 1970's...on some interviews you can hear him slurring...post FOTC....that fight was brutal man...so was Manila...whether the two (punch drunk) and Parkinsons are connected..maybe not...but he may be suffering from both...

The Parkinson's Syndrome was brought about by the result of repeated trauma to the brain, although Ali was predisposed to the condition as his father had the disease too.

I also believe that Ali had Parkinson's Syndrome long before it was officially announced.

His speech was much quieter by about 1977/78 & his face didn't have as much 'life' as previously.

I read he was even taking Dopamine in 1980 before fighting Holmes.

If this is true, how on Earth was that fight allowed to even take place?

Very interesting...a bit off the thread I'm sorry but I guess it relates to Ali's chin..Syntax Error I feel even in 1974, on some interviews the slight slurring is noticeable....very sad for the great man.

evren

As if I didn't know that argueing with Ali's worshipers is completely pointless. They just ignore any logic or facts whatsoever, if the topic is something that can even so slightly hurt his rep. I give up, you win.

Senya13 wrote:Embarassment? I don't think Ali was embarassed in the least, with his self-ego, to be dropped like that. He must have had the same way of thinking as you. Even if I, while in my prime, the heavyweight champions of the world, get dropped hard by a 60 years old minimumweight retired for 30 years with a record of 0-100(100KO)-0 in each of 100 rounds of sparring, that doesn't count for anything.

Yes, you're embarrassing yourself and evidently you're not done yet.

Senya13 wrote:As if I didn't know that argueing with Ali's worshipers is completely pointless. They just ignore any logic or facts whatsoever, if the topic is something that can even so slightly hurt his rep. I give up, you win.

I'm a Frazier fan. This has nothing to do with Ali. Substitute any fighter you want and their sparring means dick.

As for giving up, you already claimed you were done. Try and stick to it this time.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Senya13 wrote:I see no point to continue then. It reminds me of a saying, one case of adultery is not an adultery at all.

Terrible analogy, but I do agree that you should let this go. No need for further embarrassment.

You are the master of the merciless !!

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Senya13 wrote:As if I didn't know that argueing with Ali's worshipers is completely pointless. They just ignore any logic or facts whatsoever, if the topic is something that can even so slightly hurt his rep. I give up, you win.

I'm a Frazier fan. This has nothing to do with Ali. Substitute any fighter you want and their sparring means dick.
As for giving up, you already claimed you were done. Try and stick to it this time.

syntax is correct re:parkinson's syndrome. ali's condition is definitely a result of taking too many punches. maybe box buzz will chime in here and give his assessment.. he knows a lot about this subject.

Is it possible that Ali developed the disease getting thrashed during sparring with head gear by a guy he massacred when money was on the line?

I believe studies show that most of the damage for a boxer comes during sparring rather than fighting and Ali was a notoriously bad gym fighter.

There you have it, Ali sparred so his chin = shit.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:There you have it, Ali sparred so his chin = poo.

Wasn't Ali decked in sparring by Al Blue Lewis...?

When they fought I remember Al landing some wrecking ball punches off of Ali's chin and didn't faze him....ditto Ellis...

evren

RAY MERCER
joe frazier
evander holyfield
georges forman
muhamad ali

Il Duce wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Muhammad Ali,

On the ability to absorb a 'punch' without going down.

It cannot be debated, as he had had an incredible ability to take a solid punch
and stay on his feet.

Even getting staggered from a punch to the chin, Muhammad is definitely in
the Best of the Group.

Oh my God, Il Duce gives a positive comment on Muhammad Ali.

Yes, but taking a 'punch' to the head,,,,,,,is not really a good thing to do.

It's definitely not, but if you make your living as a Professional fighter, it's unavoidably going to happen sometimes and it certainly helps to be able to take a shot if and when they land.

Il Duce wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Muhammad Ali,

On the ability to absorb a 'punch' without going down.

It cannot be debated, as he had had an incredible ability to take a solid punch
and stay on his feet.

Even getting staggered from a punch to the chin, Muhammad is definitely in
the Best of the Group.

Oh my God, Il Duce gives a positive comment on Muhammad Ali.

Yes, but taking a 'punch' to the head,,,,,,,is not really a good thing to do.

Here is Il Duce's opportunity to further comment on a positive aspect of Ali, but since it is likely to slip his mind today (with so many subject to comment on)...I'll step in and say what I know he wants to share with all of you. Though ALI was FANTASTIC and LEGENDARY at taking punches....he could be even MORE DEFINED by his uncanny ability to "SLIP" punches in his early days. OH Lawdy how the man's radar worked!

Also, In one of "ALI'S" GREATEST fights (though a losing effort) there were 3 amazing moments

Let's count them down in order of REAL SIGNIFICANCE!
3. Joe Frazier's remarkable Left Hook that literally flattened the champion with the best chin in history.
2. The champion with the best chin in History folding like an accordion and landing arse first on his back.



And the single most significant moment in this fight?
1. Ali GETTING UP off his arse after being belted with that devastating left hook, and fighting COMPETITIVELY for the fights duration.


I offer this observation by Il Duce, soley without charge, and in the most benevolent manner imaginable. I just don't think he would feel right, if he hadn't taken the time to share this thought with all of us.

It is funny how Ali's first career was defined by how few punches landed on him...his elusiveness...his ability to slip and ride the punches to his second career where he is being measured here, on this forum, for his ability to absorb the best shots of the hardest punchers of all time! What a difference 3 and a half years made...

evrenb wrote:It is funny how Ali's first career was defined by how few punches landed on him...his elusiveness...his ability to slip and ride the punches to his second career where he is being measured here, on this forum, for his ability to absorb the best shots of the hardest punchers of all time! What a difference 3 and a half years made...

In Ali's "first career" Ali never had to face an opponent that came anywhere close to what Frazier was in the FOTC.

If there is one lament I would have about my favorite fighter Joe Frazier, it would be his sometimes tendency to watch the effect of one of his good punches on an opponent instead of quickly following up and taking advantage of the situation.

About 30-40 seconds after the knockdown of Ali in the 15th, Frazier landed a good punch which had Ali out on his feet for a couple of seconds. Dunphy saw the same thing. Instead of quickly following up, Frazier seemed to wait for Ali to drop. Had he gone ahead and smashed Ali to the canvas, the three knockdown rule would definitely come into play with over a minute remaining.

Yes, Frazier was tired, but he let an opportunity slip away there.

yancey wrote:

evrenb wrote:It is funny how Ali's first career was defined by how few punches landed on him...his elusiveness...his ability to slip and ride the punches to his second career where he is being measured here, on this forum, for his ability to absorb the best shots of the hardest punchers of all time! What a difference 3 and a half years made...

In Ali's "first career" Ali never had to face an opponent that came anywhere close to what Frazier was in the FOTC.

I do agree with that...Frazier was subhuman ...i do think Ali won that fight but I know I'm in a minority...(me and ali and his mum and dad) lol
How would the 1967 Ali have fared against the 1971 Frazier??

evrenb wrote:

yancey wrote:

evrenb wrote:It is funny how Ali's first career was defined by how few punches landed on him...his elusiveness...his ability to slip and ride the punches to his second career where he is being measured here, on this forum, for his ability to absorb the best shots of the hardest punchers of all time! What a difference 3 and a half years made...

In Ali's "first career" Ali never had to face an opponent that came anywhere close to what Frazier was in the FOTC.

I do agree with that...Frazier was subhuman ...i do think Ali won that fight but I know I'm in a minority...(me and ali and his mum and dad) lol
How would the 1967 Ali have fared against the 1971 Frazier??

Frazier would have stopped him.

I'm going to throw Mark Hunt into the fray, not a great boxer, K1 grand prix champion and a head of unobtainium

dberry wrote:I'm going to throw Mark Hunt into the fray, not a great boxer, K1 grand prix champion and a head of unobtainium

Yeah, chin of steel when Manhoef wiped him out in a few seconds! Lol

BoxBuzz wrote:
And the single most significant moment in this fight?
1. Ali GETTING UP off his arse after being belted with that devastating left hook, and fighting COMPETITIVELY for the fights duration.

Nice to see that rubbing shoulders with us Brits is paying off for you...

Hey...I LIVE in England....just NEWER.

don't see why vitali is so high up in an ATG chin list.
his only test was lewis and tyson took waaay more
clean shots. ATG list are always difficult, but chin
especially, since quality of opponent is everything.

ali
mccall
tyson
holyfield
marciano
dempsey
liston
louis
moore
frazier

i think frazier's legacy chin wise suffers from foreman
just having his number in terms of timing.

I do agree with that...Frazier was subhuman ...i do think Ali won that fight but I know I'm in a minority...(me and ali and his mum and dad) lol
How would the 1967 Ali have fared against the 1971 Frazier??[/quote]

Frazier would have stopped him.[/quote]
Nah it wouldn't have happened....