BoxRec

I didn't say it was "fair", I simply explained the situation as I see it. I remember reading an interview with Barney Francis who said that Boxing took up 50% of his time through having to deal with all the bullcrap that various promoters came up with. As the man responsible for the output of football, cricket, rugby, etc, he has clearly sought a solution - that being that negotiations for broadcasting boxing are carried out through a 3rd party. As I said, non-Matchroom promoters might not like it, but if they want their cards shown on Sky, it's the reality that they have to deal with.

columbo wrote:
You and I are FW worshippers apparantly.

You aren't seriously going to pretend that's not true? Come on.

It might be a case that McDonnell didn't want to box on a FW channel, it may be that he preferred to be elsewhere and didn't like where Dennis' principles were taking him.

On the face of it then its really harsh on Hobson, he deserves better, but more and more this is a business where loyalty means fcuk all. It shouldn't surprise anyone involved and they should have a contract which reflects that.

DMA1987 wrote:

columbo wrote:
You and I are FW worshippers apparantly.

You aren't seriously going to pretend that's not true? Come on.

It might be a case that McDonnell didn't want to box on a FW channel, it may be that he preferred to be elsewhere and didn't like where Dennis' principles were taking him.

On the face of it then its really harsh on Hobson, he deserves better, but more and more this is a business where loyalty means fcuk all. It shouldn't surprise anyone involved and they should have a contract which reflects that.

Im not a FW worshipper at all. I think all promoters are greedy fucks to be honest. It's just that I and some other's see through "Im Eddie Hearn the fighters best mate" act, whereas other's dont.

columbo wrote: Im not a FW worshipper at all. I think all promoters are greedy fucks to be honest. It's just that I and some other's see through "Im Eddie Hearn the fighters best mate" act, whereas other's dont.

Well then he puts a lot of effort into the act as the fighters are always on about how they love working with him. Not a bad act that. Yeah its overblown, and of course he uses it as a promotional image too, but it doesn't mean there isn't a large element of truth to it.

I just can't stomach the 'oh I know fwank has done this (insert something shitty), but its because he is old schooool, cut him some slack'.

You prefer the one who is openly shit, because you suspect the other guy is just as shit (though that's completely unfounded, and tbf untrue if you talk and listen to the fighters who work with him and look at his track record) but won't admit it. You just can't accept that he might be alright, and I don't really understand why.

DMA1987 wrote:

columbo wrote:
You and I are FW worshippers apparantly.

You aren't seriously going to pretend that's not true? Come on.

It might be a case that McDonnell didn't want to box on a FW channel, it may be that he preferred to be elsewhere and didn't like where Dennis' principles were taking him.

On the face of it then its really harsh on Hobson, he deserves better, but more and more this is a business where loyalty means fcuk all. It shouldn't surprise anyone involved and they should have a contract which reflects that.

Call me old fashioned but I think that's a shame and a sign of the times. sadly it doesn't surprise me and you are right in what you say.

I'm from Sheffield and I know Dennis, I feel for him actually.

I'd guess the dispute has been going for awhile, and while someone has been whispering in Jamie's ear, Dennis has got the allegedly deal sorted last week, to fix the situation, but it's too late and Mac has bolted.

What a sickener for Dennis.

But while his new promoter ( coughhearncough ) may be promising the moon, it's likely that he's just been brought on board in order to pad out a few of their dubious PPV shows, with a low profile bantam champ hardly anyone has heard of, taking on a south American NO ONE has heard of - so the billing can read TWO WORLD TITLE FIGHTS !!

Is he now going to get paid big bucks ? Maybe see a % of those lovely PPViews ? Not bloody likely.

DMA1987 wrote:

columbo wrote: Im not a FW worshipper at all. I think all promoters are greedy fucks to be honest. It's just that I and some other's see through "Im Eddie Hearn the fighters best mate" act, whereas other's dont.

Well then he puts a lot of effort into the act as the fighters are always on about how they love working with him. Not a bad act that. Yeah its overblown, and of course he uses it as a promotional image too, but it doesn't mean there isn't a large element of truth to it.

I just can't stomach the 'oh I know fwank has done this (insert something shitty), but its because he is old schooool, cut him some slack'.

You prefer the one who is openly poo, because you suspect the other guy is just as poo (though that's completely unfounded, and tbf untrue if you talk and listen to the fighters who work with him and look at his track record) but won't admit it. You just can't accept that he might be alright, and I don't really understand why.

He's only been promoting for two years so you cant compare the number of disputes someone has had with fighters over a 35 yr period vs 2 years when everything is going hunky dory. Also if fighters are totally happy with him why did Frampton leave him to join up with FW and the Evangelou brothers left matchroom and have just signed up with FW. The reason why I cut FW some slack is that he doesnt try and act like he's something he's not whereas I feel that Eddie does.

Crazyboy wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:

columbo wrote:
You and I are FW worshippers apparantly.

You aren't seriously going to pretend that's not true? Come on.

It might be a case that McDonnell didn't want to box on a FW channel, it may be that he preferred to be elsewhere and didn't like where Dennis' principles were taking him.

On the face of it then its really harsh on Hobson, he deserves better, but more and more this is a business where loyalty means fcuk all. It shouldn't surprise anyone involved and they should have a contract which reflects that.

Call me old fashioned but I think that's a shame and a sign of the times. sadly it doesn't surprise me and you are right in what you say.

I'm from Sheffield and I know Dennis, I feel for him actually.

He has drank in the Birley a couple of times when I've been in and seemed a good kid. It is a massive shame and is a sign of the times (I wish it was different). It is how it is though, everybody knows it, promoters/managers included, so you would expect that they have their back thoroughly covered.

columbo wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:

columbo wrote: Im not a FW worshipper at all. I think all promoters are greedy fucks to be honest. It's just that I and some other's see through "Im Eddie Hearn the fighters best mate" act, whereas other's dont.

Well then he puts a lot of effort into the act as the fighters are always on about how they love working with him. Not a bad act that. Yeah its overblown, and of course he uses it as a promotional image too, but it doesn't mean there isn't a large element of truth to it.

I just can't stomach the 'oh I know fwank has done this (insert something shitty), but its because he is old schooool, cut him some slack'.

You prefer the one who is openly poo, because you suspect the other guy is just as poo (though that's completely unfounded, and tbf untrue if you talk and listen to the fighters who work with him and look at his track record) but won't admit it. You just can't accept that he might be alright, and I don't really understand why.

He's only been promoting for two years so you cant compare the number of disputes someone has had with fighters over a 35 yr period vs 2 years when everything is going hunky dory. Also if fighters are totally happy with him why did Frampton leave him to join up with FW and the Evangelou brothers left matchroom and have just signed up with FW. The reason why I cut FW some slack is that he doesnt try and act like he's something he's not whereas I feel that Eddie does.

Lol Frampton didn't leave, McGuigan did. You just did it again btw. I just find it curious how people want to see the best in the worst one and the worst in the best one.

columbo wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:

columbo wrote: Im not a FW worshipper at all. I think all promoters are greedy fucks to be honest. It's just that I and some other's see through "Im Eddie Hearn the fighters best mate" act, whereas other's dont.

Well then he puts a lot of effort into the act as the fighters are always on about how they love working with him. Not a bad act that. Yeah its overblown, and of course he uses it as a promotional image too, but it doesn't mean there isn't a large element of truth to it.

I just can't stomach the 'oh I know fwank has done this (insert something shitty), but its because he is old schooool, cut him some slack'.

You prefer the one who is openly poo, because you suspect the other guy is just as poo (though that's completely unfounded, and tbf untrue if you talk and listen to the fighters who work with him and look at his track record) but won't admit it. You just can't accept that he might be alright, and I don't really understand why.

He's only been promoting for two years so you cant compare the number of disputes someone has had with fighters over a 35 yr period vs 2 years when everything is going hunky dory. Also if fighters are totally happy with him why did Frampton leave him to join up with FW and the Evangelou brothers left matchroom and have just signed up with FW. The reason why I cut FW some slack is that he doesnt try and act like he's something he's not whereas I feel that Eddie does.

Lol Frampton didn't leave, McGuigan did. You just did it again btw. I just find it curious how people want to see the best in the worst one and the worst in the
best one.[/quote]

Frampton didnt leave haha. Oh so im sure he has no say over his own career....

columbo wrote:
Frampton didnt leave haha. Oh so im sure he has no say over his own career....

They left because Barry wanted a slice of the promotional pie. Thought that was well documented?

DMA1987 wrote:

columbo wrote:
Frampton didnt leave haha. Oh so im sure he has no say over his own career....

They left because Barry wanted a slice of the promotional pie. Thought that was well documented?

Im pretty sure if Carl wasnt happy with it he would of said something. He's not 10 years old.

Frampton is advised by his idol. He trusts him. It wasn't Frampton that left it was Mcquigan

jackukmma wrote:Frampton is advised by his idol. He trusts him. It wasn't Frampton that left it was Mcquigan

You two are doing Frampton a disservice. Ive seen a fair few interviews of his. He doesnt strike me as being retarded or unable to weigh up his options.

He has drank in the Birley a couple of times when I've been in and seemed a good kid. It is a massive shame and is a sign of the times (I wish it was different). It is how it is though, everybody knows it, promoters/managers included, so you would expect that they have their back thoroughly covered.

Maybe, but you know what, people where I'm from (and judging on your sig, you are too) like to think that sometimes you can be loyal....so you don't necessarily 'cover your back'.

I honestly think Dennis will be hurt by this...emotionally.

columbo wrote:

jackukmma wrote:Frampton is advised by his idol. He trusts him. It wasn't Frampton that left it was Mcquigan

You two are doing Frampton a disservice. Ive seen a fair few interviews of his. He doesnt strike me as being retarded or unable to weigh up his options.

Oh please.

DMA1987 wrote:

columbo wrote:

jackukmma wrote:Frampton is advised by his idol. He trusts him. It wasn't Frampton that left it was Mcquigan

You two are doing Frampton a disservice. Ive seen a fair few interviews of his. He doesnt strike me as being retarded or unable to weigh up his options.

Oh please.

Do elaborate? Frampton doesnt strike me as being a stupid guy. Im sure there's other people involved in his career bar the Mcguigans aswell.

Crazyboy wrote:

He has drank in the Birley a couple of times when I've been in and seemed a good kid. It is a massive shame and is a sign of the times (I wish it was different). It is how it is though, everybody knows it, promoters/managers included, so you would expect that they have their back thoroughly covered.

Maybe, but you know what, people where I'm from (and judging on your sig, you are too) like to think that sometimes you can be loyal....so you don't necessarily 'cover your back'.

I honestly think Dennis will be hurt by this...emotionally.

I hope it doesn't damage his passion for the game too much. Is he involved with any Sheffield prospects at the minute?

columbo wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:

columbo wrote: You two are doing Frampton a disservice. Ive seen a fair few interviews of his. He doesnt strike me as being retarded or unable to weigh up his options.

Oh please.

Do elaborate? Frampton doesnt strike me as being a stupid guy. Im sure there's other people involved in his career bar the Mcguigans aswell.

Really? The McGuigan's train him, manage him and promote him I'd say they are probably the most involved. He is practically family to them. He obviously thought it was the right thing for his career, and it may turn out to be (though I can't see it), but if it wasn't for McGuigan? I imagine that he would still be Matchroom.

columbo wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:

columbo wrote: You two are doing Frampton a disservice. Ive seen a fair few interviews of his. He doesnt strike me as being retarded or unable to weigh up his options.

Oh please.

Do elaborate? Frampton doesnt strike me as being a stupid guy. Im sure there's other people involved in his career bar the Mcguigans aswell.

Really? The McGuigan's train him, manage him and promote him I'd say they are probably the most involved. He is practically family to them. He obviously thought it was the right thing for his career, and it may turn out to be (though I can't see it), but if it wasn't for McGuigan? I imagine that he would still be Matchroom.[/quote]

How do you know he would of gone with matchroom in the first place if he wasnt with the Mcguigans though? That works both ways. Also im sure he has a lawyer and an accountant and what have you. Looking at this aswell it doesnt look like it's affected his following http://www.eastsideboxing.com/2013/fram ... t-odyssey/

DMA1987 wrote:

Crazyboy wrote:

He has drank in the Birley a couple of times when I've been in and seemed a good kid. It is a massive shame and is a sign of the times (I wish it was different). It is how it is though, everybody knows it, promoters/managers included, so you would expect that they have their back thoroughly covered.

Maybe, but you know what, people where I'm from (and judging on your sig, you are too) like to think that sometimes you can be loyal....so you don't necessarily 'cover your back'.

I honestly think Dennis will be hurt by this...emotionally.

I hope it doesn't damage his passion for the game too much. Is he involved with any Sheffield prospects at the minute?

I don't know mate I haven't been around for a while now, but I think Jamie was his little diamond and now he's gone (well it looks that way), so I'm not sure.

Going to sound sentimental here but I just don't like people sometimes.

columbo wrote:
How do you know he would of gone with matchroom in the first place if he wasnt with the Mcguigans though? That works both ways. Also im sure he has a lawyer and an accountant and what have you. Looking at this aswell it doesnt look like it's affected his following http://www.eastsideboxing.com/2013/fram ... t-odyssey/

What? We were discussing fighters leaving Matchroom because they weren't happy, so that's not really got a place in the debate.

As for his following? He has, and always will have a massive following, especially in Northern Ireland. He would have taken that with him anywhere, I don't expect his profile to drop - but do I think that they will deliver the fights and titles that Hearn would have? Maybe, but Matchroom would have got him that title shot sooner I have no doubt. Listen, his 'team' obviously thought it was better to be away from Matchroom (for obvious reasons), and I don't really want to get sidetracked on Frampton to be honest (it was just a bit of a non example to use IMO - but then again you don't have much to choose from).

You just have a promoter who looks after his fighters, the opponents and who boxers and trainers seem to like (and who to be honest seems like a massive fan of the sport), and you just HAVE to be cynical about him, because even though he hasn't gone bad, he will eventually. Its like you persist just so in 5 years you can say 'i told you so'.

He goes too far in overhyping his fights, and some of his matchmaking can be disappointing and slow. But i genuinely think he isn't in the sport purely for himself.

squared circle wrote:

Jack B wrote:Two sides to every story. Hobson shelled out ££££ to get him a shot at home, but the problem is nobody saw it. I don't think it's unreasonable for McDonnell to be asking questions. He's one of 4 world titleholders in the UK - his profile is miles below the other 3. How many people will have watched the Ceja fight? 10,000?

The timing is strange/poor given last week's announcement that DH had linked up with Queensbury/BN - but then Jamie has stated he knew nothing about that proposed deal. Either he's lying or it's poor communication from Hobson, as surely he would want/need to keep JM informed of any proposed agreement throughout every stage of negotiations.

I can't blame McDonnell for wanting to fight for Matchroom. It's by the far the best option for any UK boxer at the moment. I'm just surprised he couldn't do a deal and keep Dennis as his manager.

But all 4 of our other world titleists ( not the three you state??) are all match room boys. No other promoter can currently compete with that so Jamie is never going to be as high profile surely??

1. 3 others - Froch, Barker, Burns. I do not include Quigg. Guillermo Rigondeaux is the WBA 122lbs champion. Quigg's belt is meaningless. I'm sure you know about the WBA's 'multiple champions per division' policy - I do not recognise 2nd/3rd tier titlists (of which Quigg is one) to be major titleholders.

2. Do you mean JM wouldn't be as high profile as other Matchroom champions if he was fighting for them, or because he isn't with Matchroom?

In some ways it depends on what stock people (ie, McDonnell) put in an announcement that the next few fights will be on BN. For a promoter struggling to find ANY TV deal it might be a welcome relief. For a newly crowned world champ, he might simply think "I can do better than that". He's spoken before about not being a boxing fan and not knowing anything about the sport in general terms, as fans too. BN is a niche channel, its a crap option compared to Sky sports if you're a main event fighter.

palooka wrote:If Jamie gets pasted next time out how loyal do you imagine Eddie will be? How many of Jamies' comeback fights will be in Doncaster? Should Dennis bother at all with Gavin McDonnell?

Dennis is nothing to do with gavin stefy manages gavin