BoxRec

I backed Calzaghe all the way.....until I saw the Reid fight - annoyingly I was swayed by that. He smashed the shite out of Reid, who was known for having a pretty much granite chin - it was an impressive demolition job.

Of course by then Reid's skills has been eroded by poor competition and inactivity, and I seem to recall he ended up doing his training by the side of the pool, because Lacy's team had stitched him up by getting him a terrible gym which was miles away - some such shennanigans anyway.

Lacy had looked pretty impressive on the way in, of course, he was relatively untested, and clearly wasn't ready for someone as seasoned as Calzaghe - I think a lot of people - myself included thought Calzaghe was on the slide - which turned out to be incorrect. What was certain was that he'd been getting decked in recent bouts, against Mitchell, Salem and Bika he was dropped heavily, and Lacy sure could punch. However, what we couldn't know, was that he would barely be able to land a glove on Calzaghe all night.

Ted (Kid) Lewis.

Autobarn wrote:

Datsue wrote:

Autobarn wrote:so it's come down to lewis & calzaghe?

Oi, no! Is my shout for Ken Buchanan getting lost amidst silly fvcking arguments about how being unbeaten somehow matters, or what?

yeah, haha. he was very mobile and very good. had to do a lot of holding though didn't he, and not often a lot on his shots. still, to move like he did, at the pace he was able to go at, in 15-rounders...

not been able to see very many buchanan: the 2nd laguna, but not the first, winning during the day in massive heat. not seen the watt fight, apparently a classic - didn't the BBC master tape go missing? destroyed in one of the BBCs culls perhaps when on one of their space saving projects. obviously I saw the duran fight in which duran initiated the mauling, but none of the other ones buchanan claimed he was stitched up in, Suzuki.

Did the BBC get rid of a lot of fights like that then?

keithmoonhangover wrote:Ted (Kid) Lewis.

the Whitechapel Windmill!...great nickname


ignore that. Wrong fckin fighter, that was Jack Kid Berg I was thinking of!

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I backed Calzaghe all the way.....until I saw the Reid fight - annoyingly I was swayed by that. He smashed the shite out of Reid, who was known for having a pretty much granite chin - it was an impressive demolition job.

Of course by then Reid's skills has been eroded by poor competition and inactivity, and I seem to recall he ended up doing his training by the side of the pool, because Lacy's team had stitched him up by getting him a terrible gym which was miles away - some such shennanigans anyway.

Lacy had looked pretty impressive on the way in, of course, he was relatively untested, and clearly wasn't ready for someone as seasoned as Calzaghe - I think a lot of people - myself included thought Calzaghe was on the slide - which turned out to be incorrect. What was certain was that he'd been getting decked in recent bouts, against Mitchell, Salem and Bika he was dropped heavily, and Lacy sure could punch. However, what we couldn't know, was that he would barely be able to land a glove on Calzaghe all night.

Calzaghe's fitness was always superb imo. A lot of running in them Welsh hillsides sure seems to help. And he was probably at the peak of his physical strength. Lacy didn't stand a cat in hell's chance really, although I was surprised at how "easy" Joe made it look, if that's the right word.

n1ebf wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I backed Calzaghe all the way.....until I saw the Reid fight - annoyingly I was swayed by that. He smashed the shite out of Reid, who was known for having a pretty much granite chin - it was an impressive demolition job.

Of course by then Reid's skills has been eroded by poor competition and inactivity, and I seem to recall he ended up doing his training by the side of the pool, because Lacy's team had stitched him up by getting him a terrible gym which was miles away - some such shennanigans anyway.

Lacy had looked pretty impressive on the way in, of course, he was relatively untested, and clearly wasn't ready for someone as seasoned as Calzaghe - I think a lot of people - myself included thought Calzaghe was on the slide - which turned out to be incorrect. What was certain was that he'd been getting decked in recent bouts, against Mitchell, Salem and Bika he was dropped heavily, and Lacy sure could punch. However, what we couldn't know, was that he would barely be able to land a glove on Calzaghe all night.

Calzaghe's fitness was always superb imo. A lot of running in them Welsh hillsides sure seems to help. And he was probably at the peak of his physical strength. Lacy didn't stand a cat in hell's chance really, although I was surprised at how "easy" Joe made it look, if that's the right word.

I think easy is the right word, Lacy hardly landed a clean punch all night and Joe couldn't miss. I don't think he was at his peak physically though, he was 34 at the time, generally physical peak comes sometime in the mid to late 20's, depending on size and unbelievably a week before the fight he wanted to pull out because he hurt his hand in training and had to be talked into fighting by his Dad.

Calzaghe probably had the style to beat everyone, whereas with Lewis he could potentially beat everyone but there was always the outside possibility he would be chinned. I think ironically Calzaghe's (chronic) hand problems actually helped he develop more of a high combination punch rate that made taking rounds off him incredibly difficult whoever you were. Apparently now even years after retirement his left hand is massively swollen and he can't even make a fist. Ouch!

polecateddy wrote:Calzaghe probably had the style to beat everyone, whereas with Lewis he could potentially beat everyone but there was always the outside possibility he would be chinned. I think ironically Calzaghe's (chronic) hand problems actually helped he develop more of a high combination punch rate that made taking rounds off him incredibly difficult whoever you were. Apparently now even years after retirement his left hand is massively swollen and he can't even make a fist. Ouch!

His left hand is knackered now, so any talk of him returning is redundant, he needed cortisone injections before every fight and didn't spar a round for Reid, Thornberry, Starie or Sheika. All in all, I think he did pretty well for someone that was told they'd never box again at 16.

expe wrote:

polecateddy wrote:Calzaghe probably had the style to beat everyone, whereas with Lewis he could potentially beat everyone but there was always the outside possibility he would be chinned. I think ironically Calzaghe's (chronic) hand problems actually helped he develop more of a high combination punch rate that made taking rounds off him incredibly difficult whoever you were. Apparently now even years after retirement his left hand is massively swollen and he can't even make a fist. Ouch!

His left hand is knackered now, so any talk of him returning is redundant, he needed cortisone injections before every fight and didn't spar a round for Reid, Thornberry, Starie or Sheika. All in all, I think he did pretty well for someone that was told they'd never box again at 16.

It explains how Thornberry lasted the distance. Anyone who thinks Calzaghe couldn't hit in those early days should ask someone like Mark Delany, (smashed in 5 I seem to remember.)

polecateddy wrote:

expe wrote:

polecateddy wrote:Calzaghe probably had the style to beat everyone, whereas with Lewis he could potentially beat everyone but there was always the outside possibility he would be chinned. I think ironically Calzaghe's (chronic) hand problems actually helped he develop more of a high combination punch rate that made taking rounds off him incredibly difficult whoever you were. Apparently now even years after retirement his left hand is massively swollen and he can't even make a fist. Ouch!

His left hand is knackered now, so any talk of him returning is redundant, he needed cortisone injections before every fight and didn't spar a round for Reid, Thornberry, Starie or Sheika. All in all, I think he did pretty well for someone that was told they'd never box again at 16.

It explains how Thornberry lasted the distance. Anyone who thinks Calzaghe couldn't hit in those early days should ask someone like Mark Delany, (smashed in 5 I seem to remember.)

And Ashira, Jimenez, Starie and Salem, to go with the Lacy fight that should never have been allowed to go 12 rounds, if his hands were better, it could be 37 or 38 KOs in 46, rather than 32. If anyone wants definitive proof of the power he once carried, ask Chris Eubank, he went in with some big punchers and said the left hook Calzaghe dropped him with was the hardest punch he'd ever been hit with.

People over-hype Lacy's achievement in dropping Reid 4 times and stopping him in the 7th - the fight was competitive and Reid did not look hurt until Lacy chinned him with a right hook after the ref called break and Reid was looking at him, which inexplicably led to the ref calling it a knockdown. It was a tainted victory and it fooled a lot of people into thinking Lacy could hit harder than was really the case.

Go see for yourself - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ikVesbjS4o @ 5:24

dookus wrote:People over-hype Lacy's achievement in dropping Reid 4 times and stopping him in the 7th - the fight was competitive and Reid did not look hurt until Lacy chinned him with a right hook after the ref called break and Reid was looking at him, which inexplicably led to the ref calling it a knockdown. It was a tainted victory and it fooled a lot of people into thinking Lacy could hit harder than was really the case.

Go see for yourself - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ikVesbjS4o @ 5:24

Yes, quite correct - funny, had forgotten that incident - christ what a terrible bit of hometown refereeing, calls break, then when Reid steps back and looks at him, allows Lacy to chin him, then starts counting, and then takes a point off for a headbutt - what headbutt.

Poor Robin, bit of a stich up that - doubt he would have gotten a decision anyway, as he wasn't really dominating enough to get the win, but he really wasn't done any favours - It still rankles me to this day that he got totally shafted by Roger Tillerman in his fight with Ottke. He was dominating Ottke, who looked pretty much shot to me - but was risking disqualification as the ref was taking points off for hitting his opponent - and at one point even helped Ottke up after Reid chinned him and dropped him with a left hook, and didn't administer a count at all, just literally ignored the knockdown.

Still to this day, the most blatantly piece of bent refereeing I've ever seen in my life. Tillerman was hired to do everything possible to ensure that Ottke kept his title - strangely promoted to an A class referee and given a world title fight, despite having little or not experience as anything but an amateur referee.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

dookus wrote:People over-hype Lacy's achievement in dropping Reid 4 times and stopping him in the 7th - the fight was competitive and Reid did not look hurt until Lacy chinned him with a right hook after the ref called break and Reid was looking at him, which inexplicably led to the ref calling it a knockdown. It was a tainted victory and it fooled a lot of people into thinking Lacy could hit harder than was really the case.

Go see for yourself - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ikVesbjS4o @ 5:24

Yes, quite correct - funny, had forgotten that incident - christ what a terrible bit of hometown refereeing, calls break, then when Reid steps back and looks at him, allows Lacy to chin him, then starts counting, and then takes a point off for a headbutt - what headbutt.

Poor Robin, bit of a stich up that - doubt he would have gotten a decision anyway, as he wasn't really dominating enough to get the win, but he really wasn't done any favours - It still rankles me to this day that he got totally shafted by Roger Tillerman in his fight with Ottke. He was dominating Ottke, who looked pretty much shot to me - but was risking disqualification as the ref was taking points off for hitting his opponent - and at one point even helped Ottke up after Reid chinned him and dropped him with a left hook, and didn't administer a count at all, just literally ignored the knockdown.

Still to this day, the most blatantly piece of bent refereeing I've ever seen in my life. Tillerman was hired to do everything possible to ensure that Ottke kept his title - strangely promoted to an A class referee and given a world title fight, despite having little or not experience as anything but an amateur referee.

Tillerman sounds like an utter c*nt.

Datsue - take a bow son, some great contributions to this thread.

As for Joe vs Hopkins - was it Daviddee who said no one cried robbery in the fight not even Bernard on the night.... umm watch the interview 10 minutes after the fight at the end.

Rawling and Woodhall (Joe's mate) - "this fight could go either way".

Bernard Hopkins "I schooled him".

Joe Cazalghe spoke a week or so after saying it could have gone either way.

Forget Bunce's comments on the recent reshowing of the fight, or should I say part of the fight after which Bunce said "watching it again now, can see you a bigger winner Joe".... umm the thing was you didn't watch the whole fight again in the show Buncey.... plus not going to call it close with Joe sitting 5 yards away.

Robin Reid - Close fight, could have gone either way - but I for one was okay that there was no rematch there. Joe was at his very worst, Reid at his very best and yet still Robin couldn't find a way to convincingly win. A rematch would have been one sided (had Joe been fully fit).

Hopkins vs Calzaghe - there should have been a rematch. For me, Bernard won that fight and I think would have closed the show with Nazim and not Freddie in his corner. Roach thought it was Hopkins and didn't push him down the stretch to seal it. For me, Roach was correct, but obviously not the cards.

stujones wrote:Datsue - take a bow son, some great contributions to this thread.

As for Joe vs Hopkins - was it Daviddee who said no one cried robbery in the fight not even Bernard on the night.... umm watch the interview 10 minutes after the fight at the end.

Rawling and Woodhall (Joe's mate) - "this fight could go either way".

Bernard Hopkins "I schooled him".

Joe Cazalghe spoke a week or so after saying it could have gone either way.

Forget Bunce's comments on the recent reshowing of the fight, or should I say part of the fight after which Bunce said "watching it again now, can see you a bigger winner Joe".... umm the thing was you didn't watch the whole fight again in the show Buncey.... plus not going to call it close with Joe sitting 5 yards away.

Robin Reid - Close fight, could have gone either way - but I for one was okay that there was no rematch there. Joe was at his very worst, Reid at his very best and yet still Robin couldn't find a way to convincingly win. A rematch would have been one sided (had Joe been fully fit).

Hopkins vs Calzaghe - there should have been a rematch. For me, Bernard won that fight and I think would have closed the show with Nazim and not Freddie in his corner. Roach thought it was Hopkins and didn't push him down the stretch to seal it. For me, Roach was correct, but obviously not the cards.

Agree with you on Reid and yes the Hopkins fight could have gone either way, but it wasn't a schooling and Hopkins didn't have enough left to do enough to get the win, he was knackered, the pace was just too high for him and he had to resort to feigning low blows to get a rest, he wasn't going to do enough regardless of who was in the corner. If it was going to go to either man, I'd say Calzaghe was more deserving, he threw more, landed more and forced Hopkins into a fight that he didn't want to be in.

n1ebf wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

dookus wrote:People over-hype Lacy's achievement in dropping Reid 4 times and stopping him in the 7th - the fight was competitive and Reid did not look hurt until Lacy chinned him with a right hook after the ref called break and Reid was looking at him, which inexplicably led to the ref calling it a knockdown. It was a tainted victory and it fooled a lot of people into thinking Lacy could hit harder than was really the case.

Go see for yourself - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ikVesbjS4o @ 5:24

Yes, quite correct - funny, had forgotten that incident - christ what a terrible bit of hometown refereeing, calls break, then when Reid steps back and looks at him, allows Lacy to chin him, then starts counting, and then takes a point off for a headbutt - what headbutt.

Poor Robin, bit of a stich up that - doubt he would have gotten a decision anyway, as he wasn't really dominating enough to get the win, but he really wasn't done any favours - It still rankles me to this day that he got totally shafted by Roger Tillerman in his fight with Ottke. He was dominating Ottke, who looked pretty much shot to me - but was risking disqualification as the ref was taking points off for hitting his opponent - and at one point even helped Ottke up after Reid chinned him and dropped him with a left hook, and didn't administer a count at all, just literally ignored the knockdown.

Still to this day, the most blatantly piece of bent refereeing I've ever seen in my life. Tillerman was hired to do everything possible to ensure that Ottke kept his title - strangely promoted to an A class referee and given a world title fight, despite having little or not experience as anything but an amateur referee.

Tillerman sounds like an utter c*nt.

Watch the fight again, and tell me the ref wasn't referring to instructions - either that, or he was Sven Ottke's gay lover.

Expe,

I actually think Hopkins throws more punches with Nazim in his corner than he did with Roach. My point was the team thought it was in the bag, Hopkins might have been tiring but was also in the mindset he was a clear winner. Roach thought he won - and was fresh enough at the end of the fight to be talking, celebrating and gave a long interview sounding fresh. Unlike the Welsh corner, there was no urgency with Roach that night.

As far as "feigning" the low blow - the shot he went down for was low - now I am not sure whether Hopkins needed to go down for it as it didn't look much, but it was low. Anyway, there were shots that were south of the border - nice crisp ones that Hopkins' didn't budge for. Joe himself has said after being floored he thought he needed to slow him down and needed to get his own back so landed some low ones deliberately in the second. So both were guilty of "cheating".

stujones wrote:Expe,

I actually think Hopkins throws more punches with Nazim in his corner than he did with Roach. My point was the team thought it was in the bag, Hopkins might have been tiring but was also in the mindset he was a clear winner. Roach thought he won - and was fresh enough at the end of the fight to be talking, celebrating and gave a long interview sounding fresh. Unlike the Welsh corner, there was no urgency with Roach that night.

As far as "feigning" the low blow - the shot he went down for was low - now I am not sure whether Hopkins needed to go down for it as it didn't look much, but it was low. Anyway, there were shots that were south of the border - nice crisp ones that Hopkins' didn't budge for. Joe himself has said after being floored he thought he needed to slow him down and needed to get his own back so landed some low ones deliberately in the second. So both were guilty of "cheating".

It's true that Hopkins threw a tonne more punches against Pavlik, and didn't look one bit tired. The fight against Calzaghe was hardly hectic, so hard to see how Hopkins could have been tired, as he always seems to be in good condition.

I do think Calzaghe's speed of hand caused Hopkins some problems, but really, it was a dreadful fight, one of the worst world title fights I've ever been subjected to.

stujones wrote:Expe,

I actually think Hopkins throws more punches with Nazim in his corner than he did with Roach. My point was the team thought it was in the bag, Hopkins might have been tiring but was also in the mindset he was a clear winner. Roach thought he won - and was fresh enough at the end of the fight to be talking, celebrating and gave a long interview sounding fresh. Unlike the Welsh corner, there was no urgency with Roach that night.

As far as "feigning" the low blow - the shot he went down for was low - now I am not sure whether Hopkins needed to go down for it as it didn't look much, but it was low. Anyway, there were shots that were south of the border - nice crisp ones that Hopkins' didn't budge for. Joe himself has said after being floored he thought he needed to slow him down and needed to get his own back so landed some low ones deliberately in the second. So both were guilty of "cheating".

He went down for as long as he could and there were a few low ones going in, but nothing out of the ordinary and while he may have pushed things more with Nazim in his corner, throwing more punches would have been Hopkins' downfall, slip, punch, hold worked for him, if he tried to throw in combinations and box a bit more rather than making it a messy brawl he would have been picked off because Joe would have had the room to throw more combinations.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

stujones wrote:Expe,

I actually think Hopkins throws more punches with Nazim in his corner than he did with Roach. My point was the team thought it was in the bag, Hopkins might have been tiring but was also in the mindset he was a clear winner. Roach thought he won - and was fresh enough at the end of the fight to be talking, celebrating and gave a long interview sounding fresh. Unlike the Welsh corner, there was no urgency with Roach that night.

As far as "feigning" the low blow - the shot he went down for was low - now I am not sure whether Hopkins needed to go down for it as it didn't look much, but it was low. Anyway, there were shots that were south of the border - nice crisp ones that Hopkins' didn't budge for. Joe himself has said after being floored he thought he needed to slow him down and needed to get his own back so landed some low ones deliberately in the second. So both were guilty of "cheating".

It's true that Hopkins threw a tonne more punches against Pavlik, and didn't look one bit tired. The fight against Calzaghe was hardly hectic, so hard to see how Hopkins could have been tired, as he always seems to be in good condition.

I do think Calzaghe's speed of hand caused Hopkins some problems, but really, it was a dreadful fight, one of the worst world title fights I've ever been subjected to.

Agree James, but I also agree with Hopkins' post fight interview of a "schooling" - it wasn't a Calzaghe vs Lacy type of schooling but in terms of ring generalship I think Hopkins was right, he made Calzaghe look like an amateur. Even in the bigger Calzaghe rounds in most exchanges Hopkins had the last word. Calzaghe might flurry, throw 7 punches, land with 3 but Hopkins' final 1 would end the flurry and be the more eye catching.

As Roach said post fight - "effective punching" you must score the fight for Hopkins.... aggression, punches thrown, punches landed - yes - can see a huge case for Joe - but the art of boxing for me is with defence, ring generalship and effective punching.... Hopkins won these hands down. Not saying he won a shut out or anything - but when Chunk Chiampa's card was read - I thought well got to be Hopkins here.

If the ref is not warning any fighter for holding, then I don't think its the judges' role to start penalising which they seemed to do to both Hopkins and Dirrel (vs Froch) a few years later.

Maybe a bit ironic that Froch thought Hopkins won cause of ring generalship and effective defence and punching - yet won't say publically at least that Dirrel did a similar number on him (although kept a silence when Groves' goading him about it).

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

stujones wrote:Expe,

I actually think Hopkins throws more punches with Nazim in his corner than he did with Roach. My point was the team thought it was in the bag, Hopkins might have been tiring but was also in the mindset he was a clear winner. Roach thought he won - and was fresh enough at the end of the fight to be talking, celebrating and gave a long interview sounding fresh. Unlike the Welsh corner, there was no urgency with Roach that night.

As far as "feigning" the low blow - the shot he went down for was low - now I am not sure whether Hopkins needed to go down for it as it didn't look much, but it was low. Anyway, there were shots that were south of the border - nice crisp ones that Hopkins' didn't budge for. Joe himself has said after being floored he thought he needed to slow him down and needed to get his own back so landed some low ones deliberately in the second. So both were guilty of "cheating".

It's true that Hopkins threw a tonne more punches against Pavlik, and didn't look one bit tired. The fight against Calzaghe was hardly hectic, so hard to see how Hopkins could have been tired, as he always seems to be in good condition.

I do think Calzaghe's speed of hand caused Hopkins some problems, but really, it was a dreadful fight, one of the worst world title fights I've ever been subjected to.

You need to look at the fight again. His punch output wasn't higher against Pavlik, it was still his usual steady 35-40 or so punches a round but his connect rate was much higher so it made it look like that. That and Pavlik kept trundling forward in lines and eating them.

expe wrote:

stujones wrote:Expe,

I actually think Hopkins throws more punches with Nazim in his corner than he did with Roach. My point was the team thought it was in the bag, Hopkins might have been tiring but was also in the mindset he was a clear winner. Roach thought he won - and was fresh enough at the end of the fight to be talking, celebrating and gave a long interview sounding fresh. Unlike the Welsh corner, there was no urgency with Roach that night.

As far as "feigning" the low blow - the shot he went down for was low - now I am not sure whether Hopkins needed to go down for it as it didn't look much, but it was low. Anyway, there were shots that were south of the border - nice crisp ones that Hopkins' didn't budge for. Joe himself has said after being floored he thought he needed to slow him down and needed to get his own back so landed some low ones deliberately in the second. So both were guilty of "cheating".

He went down for as long as he could and there were a few low ones going in, but nothing out of the ordinary and while he may have pushed things more with Nazim in his corner, throwing more punches would have been Hopkins' downfall, slip, punch, hold worked for him, if he tried to throw in combinations and box a bit more rather than making it a messy brawl he would have been picked off because Joe would have had the room to throw more combinations.

We'll never know Expe that's the thing, for me - Hopkins of a few year previous or even the Hopkins who fought Pavlik would have beaten Joe because I think what the first fight showed was Hopkins was quicker than Joe. He beat him to the punch, time and time again, particularly early. Plus he tucked his chin in more, his punches would have looked that much more eye catching. All Hopkins needed to do was fight the way he did for the first two rounds and it would have been a masterclass. The first two rounds were not a Wayne McCullough style throw a million punches a round - just a little more than what he was doing in the mid rounds.

When the fight started to become close, that's when there needed to be the urgency from Roach to go back to what it was. We aint talking a lot more work for Hopkins to make the Joe rounds', definite Hopkins' round... Hopkins won the rounds the Judges gave him clear, most of the Joe rounds were close.

stujones wrote:Robin Reid - Close fight, could have gone either way - but I for one was okay that there was no rematch there. Joe was at his very worst, Reid at his very best and yet still Robin couldn't find a way to convincingly win. A rematch would have been one sided (had Joe been fully fit).

I was at that fight and Reid won it. Joe ducked the rematch simple as that. Reid made Calzaghe look at his worst, because he fought a great fight. If they'd rematched, Reid may well have fought even better. Calzaghe was a brilliant boxer, but he should have been man enough to give Robin a rematch.

stujones wrote:

expe wrote:

stujones wrote:Expe,

I actually think Hopkins throws more punches with Nazim in his corner than he did with Roach. My point was the team thought it was in the bag, Hopkins might have been tiring but was also in the mindset he was a clear winner. Roach thought he won - and was fresh enough at the end of the fight to be talking, celebrating and gave a long interview sounding fresh. Unlike the Welsh corner, there was no urgency with Roach that night.

As far as "feigning" the low blow - the shot he went down for was low - now I am not sure whether Hopkins needed to go down for it as it didn't look much, but it was low. Anyway, there were shots that were south of the border - nice crisp ones that Hopkins' didn't budge for. Joe himself has said after being floored he thought he needed to slow him down and needed to get his own back so landed some low ones deliberately in the second. So both were guilty of "cheating".

He went down for as long as he could and there were a few low ones going in, but nothing out of the ordinary and while he may have pushed things more with Nazim in his corner, throwing more punches would have been Hopkins' downfall, slip, punch, hold worked for him, if he tried to throw in combinations and box a bit more rather than making it a messy brawl he would have been picked off because Joe would have had the room to throw more combinations.

We'll never know Expe that's the thing, for me - Hopkins of a few year previous or even the Hopkins who fought Pavlik would have beaten Joe because I think what the first fight showed was Hopkins was quicker than Joe. He beat him to the punch, time and time again, particularly early. Plus he tucked his chin in more, his punches would have looked that much more eye catching. All Hopkins needed to do was fight the way he did for the first two rounds and it would have been a masterclass. The first two rounds were not a Wayne McCullough style throw a million punches a round - just a little more than what he was doing in the mid rounds.

When the fight started to become close, that's when there needed to be the urgency from Roach to go back to what it was. We aint talking a lot more work for Hopkins to make the Joe rounds', definite Hopkins' round... Hopkins won the rounds the Judges gave him clear, most of the Joe rounds were close.

I don't think Hopkins was that much quicker and he was outlanded in every single round, even the first when he scored the knockdown, plus Joe was more accurate as well over the whole fight and Hopkins was only more accurate in 3 rounds and the same in another. Punch stats don't tell the whole story or take into account the weight of the punches, but they do give a general idea of who deserves to win the fight. Hopkins threw less punches in the first 2 rounds than any other round, the only rounds he really dropped off the pace in were 4 and 6 and when he picked up the pace in the final 3 rounds, he missed more and more. What Hopkins did was to try and slow Calzaghe down to his pace, early on he succeeded, but as the fight wore on he couldn't continue to do that as Joe opened up more.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

stujones wrote:Robin Reid - Close fight, could have gone either way - but I for one was okay that there was no rematch there. Joe was at his very worst, Reid at his very best and yet still Robin couldn't find a way to convincingly win. A rematch would have been one sided (had Joe been fully fit).

I was at that fight and Reid won it. Joe ducked the rematch simple as that. Reid made Calzaghe look at his worst, because he fought a great fight. If they'd rematched, Reid may well have fought even better. Calzaghe was a brilliant boxer, but he should have been man enough to give Robin a rematch.

Reid didnt win, he landed eye catching shots but was outlanded convincingly by calzaghe.