BoxRec

palooka wrote:Whatever he's done in the past he's tried to alter his ways and put it behind him; I imagine if he had his time again he'd not choose to do what he did. He's worked hard and I don't think it'd be all that easy to do. He isn't a Bishop or a Preacher he's a boxer; it's good that people can see that a life of sport and discipline can change someones life for the better.

You're mistake is replying to someone with an obvious agenda.

Should have guessed when the statement 'leagues above Joshua' was made. I like to tive people the benefit of the doubt though.

Perhaps Joshua sold him a bad batch when he was dealing!?

Anyway, he is the prime example of how Boxing can change ones life. Fair play to the lad. Not a bad role model now.

lillywhite14 wrote:

palooka wrote:Whatever he's done in the past he's tried to alter his ways and put it behind him; I imagine if he had his time again he'd not choose to do what he did. He's worked hard and I don't think it'd be all that easy to do. He isn't a Bishop or a Preacher he's a boxer; it's good that people can see that a life of sport and discipline can change someones life for the better.

You're mistake is replying to someone with an obvious agenda.

Should have guessed when the statement 'leagues above Joshua' was made. I like to tive people the benefit of the doubt though.

Perhaps Joshua sold him a bad batch when he was dealing!?

Anyway, he is the prime example of how Boxing can change ones life. Fair play to the lad. Not a bad role model now.

No agenda just dealing in facts.

The fact is that the past is done and no one can alter what he's done; he's turned his life around when many don't or can't; he stayed in the same area when many have to move far away to have a better life. He may have sold drugs (to people who wanted to buy them) and that may mean that he was a terrible, immoral and evil person. He has turned himself away from that and worked to improve things in a positive way. You may wish him harm or to fail because of his past but there are others who'd think that no one's perfect and it's good to see someone turn away from a bad life to be someone positive.

london wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:

palooka wrote:Whatever he's done in the past he's tried to alter his ways and put it behind him; I imagine if he had his time again he'd not choose to do what he did. He's worked hard and I don't think it'd be all that easy to do. He isn't a Bishop or a Preacher he's a boxer; it's good that people can see that a life of sport and discipline can change someones life for the better.

You're mistake is replying to someone with an obvious agenda.

Should have guessed when the statement 'leagues above Joshua' was made. I like to tive people the benefit of the doubt though.

Perhaps Joshua sold him a bad batch when he was dealing!?

Anyway, he is the prime example of how Boxing can change ones life. Fair play to the lad. Not a bad role model now.

No agenda just dealing in facts.

Such as 'Whyte is leagues above Joshua'?

I'll humour you.

Is a conviction for possession of a class C drug with intent to supply worse than say, I don't know, a two year ban from boxing for cheating?

No agenda just dealing in facts.[/quote]

Such as 'Whyte is leagues above Joshua'?

I'll humour you.

Is a conviction for possession of a class C drug with intent to supply worse than say, I don't know, a two year ban from boxing for cheating?[/quote]








Well obviously Whyte has paid a huge price for unknowingly taking an over the counter supplement and received a two year ban while Enzo Mac got six months and Tony Dodson five months for exactly same thing.Whytes conviction is civil not criminal.

Anthony Joshua was convicted and sentenced for dealing drugs in Crown Court and now has a criminal record for an offence that may well prevent him from boxing in the USA.

What ban did Joshua get off the ABA for admitting being a drug dealer?

lillywhite14 wrote:Watch Joshua in the worlds when he got silver. That's the best indicator of how he might get on when the going gets tough. He performed better in that competition than he did in the Olympics.

He gritted his teeth and got the job done against Cammarelle in what was his real breakout win then fought the local favourite to a standstill in the final. Didnt he only lose by a point? Threw everything and the kitchen sink.

I ain't got no worries about him when the going gets tough ( like I had with Price for example )

Joshua's trainers also stopped his fight against cruiserweight sized Romanian Mihai Nistor after AJ took multiple counts. He may well prove to be reasonably durable in the pros, but I think you're taking that for granted too quickly, as least if that's what you mean by him being ok when things get tough.

Parson Cross wrote:I'm going to lie down in a dark room.
Joshua called a plodder.
My fuckin giddy aunt.

He does seem a bit lumbering and stiff to me. Sorry that we don't all think he's great at this point.

I haven't said he's great. However a plodder he is not.

I don't think it's cringe-worthy to call him a plodder, though I wouldn't characterize him as one. His hand speed is decent but I think he's a bit lumbering and stiff with his movement and posture. Have fun in that dark room.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

Boxingcutsman wrote:I like the kid, think he seems a really nice, down to earth, grounded young man, he's got the looks, attitude & power to be a superstar. He's done everything asked of him so far & in style, he can't do no more than that.

I really hope he does well & think the public should be excited to have such a talented young heavyweight with all the natural attributes to do well & we should get behind him, but also be patient, he's still young & learning, but there is something niggling me, and that's I don't think he will hold a shot too well soon has a genuine heavyweight with some bad intentions gets in there with him, has history will show us, heavyweights usually over 6 ft 4" haven't got the best chins, and look like Bambi on ice soon has there properly tagged.

He's already been tagged in the ams and looked solid, and there are many examples of bigger men with solid chins, Riddick Bowe, Valuev, Vitali, Tucker, Wach, Lennox, just off the top off my head.

I know Joshua has been down before in fights & sparring has a Am, then there's a massive difference getting hit by a genuine, hard hitting pro heavyweight in 10oz gloves with no headguard & bad intentions with there feet firmly planted.
its a fact any fighters 6ft 5 6ft 6 and above do not hold a shot has well has shorter fighters is all im saying, but I hope I'm wrong about Joshua has I like the kid.

Riddick Bowe 6ft 4" tough man
Vitali 6ft 6 ( the exception )
Wach 6ft 7 ( only decent fight he boxed was a old vitali )
Lewis 6ft 6 ( even though Bruno had him wobbled plus his 2 ko losses his chin wasn't too bad )
Valuev 7ft ( never been hit clean on chin, but Haye made him do silly dance and barely cuffed him with inside of glove )
Tucker 6ft 4" ( chin ok even though got ko few times )

joshua is ok

he will make waves


shutup

Funny to think that Ryota Murata (who won Silver in Baku and Gold in London) is reportedly hunting a world title fight in late 2015 in what is planned to be his 10th bout, but some are saying Joshua is being rushed for wanting a British title in fight 10.

Boxing Prospect wrote:Funny to think that Ryota Murata (who won Silver in Baku and Gold in London) is reportedly hunting a world title fight in late 2015 in what is planned to be his 10th bout, but some are saying Joshua is being rushed for wanting a British title in fight 10.

x2

columbo wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:Funny to think that Ryota Murata (who won Silver in Baku and Gold in London) is reportedly hunting a world title fight in late 2015 in what is planned to be his 10th bout, but some are saying Joshua is being rushed for wanting a British title in fight 10.

x2

But, as people keep pointing out with these comparisons, Murata is 28 and has been boxing since he was 12. Joshua is 24 and has been boxing since he was 18.

You can't just say fighter A did something by his 10th fight therefore fighter B should be held to the same standard. It's not a video game everyone is different.

J-C wrote:

columbo wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:Funny to think that Ryota Murata (who won Silver in Baku and Gold in London) is reportedly hunting a world title fight in late 2015 in what is planned to be his 10th bout, but some are saying Joshua is being rushed for wanting a British title in fight 10.

x2

But, as people keep pointing out with these comparisons, Murata is 28 and has been boxing since he was 12. Joshua is 24 and has been boxing since he was 18.

You can't just say fighter A did something by his 10th fight therefore fighter B should be held to the same standard. It's not a video game.

I'm comparing Olympic gold medal winners...and Amateur Silver medal winners.

You want to talk about experience which is understandable but do you really think the Asian Middleweights Murata was beating in Japanese/Asian competitions match up with the Heavyweights Joshua was beating in domestic competition? Experience comes in two forms for me, quantity (which is where Murata wins) and quality (which isn't that different between the two men).

Also, we keep complaining about how weak the Heavyweight division is, there is no similar comments about the Middleweight division which is strong. If the global Heavyweight scene is weak than why are we acting like the domestic scene is strong?

Don't pretend I'm comparing Murata fighting, for example Rubio, in fight #10 to Joshua fighting Wladimir Klitschko. Instead compare Rubio to John McDermott.

J-C wrote:

columbo wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:Funny to think that Ryota Murata (who won Silver in Baku and Gold in London) is reportedly hunting a world title fight in late 2015 in what is planned to be his 10th bout, but some are saying Joshua is being rushed for wanting a British title in fight 10.

x2

But, as people keep pointing out with these comparisons, Murata is 28 and has been boxing since he was 12. Joshua is 24 and has been boxing since he was 18.

You can't just say fighter A did something by his 10th fight therefore fighter B should be held to the same standard. It's not a video game everyone is different.

You make a valid point but how long has Bryant Jennings been boxing for example? He's 29 now and took up boxing when he was 23 and has had 18 pro fights and is very close to fighting for a world title.

Boxing Prospect wrote:I'm comparing Olympic gold medal winners...and Amateur Silver medal winners.

You want to talk about experience which is understandable but do you really think the Asian Middleweights Murata was beating in Japanese/Asian competitions match up with the Heavyweights Joshua was beating in domestic competition? Experience comes in two forms for me, quantity (which is where Murata wins) and quality (which isn't that different between the two men).

Also, we keep complaining about how weak the Heavyweight division is, there is no similar comments about the Middleweight division which is strong. If the global Heavyweight scene is weak than why are we acting like the domestic scene is strong?

Don't pretend I'm comparing Murata fighting, for example Rubio, in fight #10 to Joshua fighting Wladimir Klitschko. Instead compare Rubio to John McDermott.

Fair points mate. I just think it's best to judge each prospect based on whatever the plan for their development is, rather than against where others are doing.

Incidentally, the quality vs quantity debate is a good one. I think a lot of people see fighters getting matched softly and therefore assume they could jump up in class much quicker if they wanted to (and compare them with exceptions like Rigo Lomachenko and Spinks). When in fact what they actually need more experience but of better quality.

columbo wrote:You make a valid point but how long has Bryant Jennings been boxing for example? He's 29 now and took up boxing when he was 23 and has had 18 pro fights and is very close to fighting for a world title.

I guess he doesn't have much choice, I bet if you could offer him more time or a more extensive amateur career he'd take it.

J-C wrote:

columbo wrote:You make a valid point but how long has Bryant Jennings been boxing for example? He's 29 now and took up boxing when he was 23 and has had 18 pro fights and is very close to fighting for a world title.

I guess he doesn't have much choice, I bet if you could offer him more time or a more extensive amateur career he'd take it.

True. He's looked good and comfortable doing it though. He hasnt looked out of his depth in the step ups in competition he's had. In his last fight he stopped Szpilka who had over 100 amateurs fights and only lost 5 if memory serves me correct and was 16-0 with 12 KO's.

columbo wrote:

J-C wrote:

columbo wrote:You make a valid point but how long has Bryant Jennings been boxing for example? He's 29 now and took up boxing when he was 23 and has had 18 pro fights and is very close to fighting for a world title.

I guess he doesn't have much choice, I bet if you could offer him more time or a more extensive amateur career he'd take it.

True. He's looked good and comfortable doing it though. He hasnt looked out of his depth in the step ups in competition he's had. In his last fight he stopped Szpilka who had over 100 amateurs fights and only lost 5 if memory serves me correct and was 16-0 with 12 KO's.

I suppose as with any sport it's about using the time you have to best advantage. Seems like Jennings has done that.

With Joshua there is a lot of work to do but they have all the time in the world, I hope they use it effectively.

J-C wrote: Fair points mate. I just think it's best to judge each prospect based on whatever the plan for their development is, rather than against where others are doing.

Incidentally, the quality vs quantity debate is a good one. I think a lot of people see fighters getting matched softly and therefore assume they could jump up in class much quicker if they wanted to (and compare them with exceptions like Rigo Lomachenko and Spinks). When in fact what they actually need more experience but of better quality.

The quality/quantity argument is one that is always over-looked. Wilder and his team have certainly gone "quantity" as opposed to "quality" and I think that's why he will be found out. Lets hope Joshua doesn't go the same way.

The British champion, McDermott, was "beaten" by Tyson Fury in fight #8 and then stopped by Fury in fight #11. Price stopped him in fight #12.

I can't see why we don't think Joshua can be compared to them and McDermott is a good "quality" opponent for a top prospect.

It's strange that you get a lot of Thai's with a huge depth in quantity but no quality yet they do oddly produce some fantastic fighters. Strange how things work over there.

datlefthook wrote:Leon Spinks fought Ali for the world title in his 8th fight, so Joshua fighting Sprott/Sexton for the British title in his 6th seems perfectly reasonable.

Yes, because that wasn't an exception, that was the rule. There's plenty of other examples of people fighting for the world title in their 8th fight.

ILikeBeer wrote:

datlefthook wrote:Leon Spinks fought Ali for the world title in his 8th fight, so Joshua fighting Sprott/Sexton for the British title in his 6th seems perfectly reasonable.

Yes, because that wasn't an exception, that was the rule. There's plenty of other examples of people fighting for the world title in their 8th fight.

There are plenty of others fighting for world titles inside 8 fights...
Paul Weir
Saensak Muangsurin
Kazuto Ioka
Jeff Fenech
Nobuo Nashiro
Veeraphol Sahaprom
Muangchai Kittikasem
Guillermo Rigondeaux
Napa Kiatwanchai

Could continue but you'll get the point, it's not a one off freak incident

Boxing Prospect wrote:Funny to think that Ryota Murata (who won Silver in Baku and Gold in London) is reportedly hunting a world title fight in late 2015 in what is planned to be his 10th bout, but some are saying Joshua is being rushed for wanting a British title in fight 10.

Aside from the other reasons Joshua isn't jumping in there with Wlad, do you begrudge him the chance to make some money and market himself, get a little PR steam going with some destructive knockouts?

Riddick Blowe wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:Funny to think that Ryota Murata (who won Silver in Baku and Gold in London) is reportedly hunting a world title fight in late 2015 in what is planned to be his 10th bout, but some are saying Joshua is being rushed for wanting a British title in fight 10.

Aside from the other reasons Joshua isn't jumping in there with Wlad, do you begrudge him the chance to make some money and market himself, get a little PR steam going with some destructive knockouts?

I didnt know Wlad held the british title. fornicating hell, boxing really is becoming a farce......

Riddick Blowe wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:Funny to think that Ryota Murata (who won Silver in Baku and Gold in London) is reportedly hunting a world title fight in late 2015 in what is planned to be his 10th bout, but some are saying Joshua is being rushed for wanting a British title in fight 10.

Aside from the other reasons Joshua isn't jumping in there with Wlad, do you begrudge him the chance to make some money and market himself, get a little PR steam going with some destructive knockouts?

Again, where have I said he should be in with Wlad? My point is that Joshua could and probably SHOULD be at British title level inside 10 fights. If that's asking too much of an OLYMPIC champion and the man who was "robbed in the world amateur championships" then I must be asking too much.

He can make money and market himself, though surely he'd earn more money defending a British title in fight 11/12/13/14 than delaying the title fight?

The PR train is on hyper-drive without the highlight reel KO's. I'd rather he gets hype for beating people with a pulse rather than just knocking people out.

Again using Murata as an example, his PR is bat shit insane in Japan yet he's not had a single destructive knockout.