Sonny Liston ~ 'Mr. Completely Overrated'

[Ambling Alp II]

I have seen him ranked as high as #3 on here, which is over the top. Ali, Louis, Foreman, Johnson,Frazier Holmes, Marciano, Dempsey, Holyfield, Lewis should probably be above him. Jeffries and Tyson are arguable. That means Liston is in the #11-13 range. Not sure if that about where most people around here think of him or not.

[L.A. kidd]

I don't think anyone on this thread has mentioned how mobbed up liston really was... when discussing liston one has to think of a fighter who is completed owned by the mob. did he throw any fights? yes ali vs liston 2 in maine.

he may have been a very good heavyweight, or even a great one. but, in reading "jersey boy" a book about Frankie depaula,

its mentioned in the book about liston- ali- 1 and abe resnick [listons longtime friend] says to guys who want to bet this fight [miami1964}

"stay away from this fight, it smells" and lately some FBI sources have came out and said that there is evidence of this fight being a fraud.

it makes me wonder all the more about liston. I think he, because of who owned him, was bad for boxing.

[Caractacus]

I think you may be referring to Ash Resnick
and or maybe Abe Margolis.

[cfang]

Liston isn't overrated in my view. He's prob around 8-12 all time heavy. His record pre title was stunning and he was a superb heavy. Ali was just exceptional and Liston was older than stated.

Yes he had connections with the mob but despite what was said before there is no actual evidence that he threw the second fight with Ali. I hear this a lot from Ali haters. I met a guy in a pub once who just plain hated Ali and he just twisted any fact he could. I'm sure he believed what he said but didn't make him right. Prob a bit like the departed El Duce :-)

Anyways back to Liston. I'm with the guy (I think it was henry) who said that without Ali Liston would have mopped up through the 60s.

[L.A. kidd]

I think you may be referring to Ash Resnick
and or maybe Abe Margolis.

yes, ash resnik.

[Caractacus]

You know there are some who believe that it was him who gave the orders to have
Liston "rubbed out".
(ater trying to get the "Brown Bomber" hooked on cocaine again)

[L.A. kidd]

You know there are some who believe that it was him who gave the orders to have
Liston "rubbed out".
(ater trying to get the "Brown Bomber" hooked on cocaine again)

there is a lot of speculation about the demise of sonny liston, on the thread west coast boxing it was covered very well,

word was he was getting out of control in las vegas, getting drunk, and being obnoxious with just about everyone.

add that to threathing ash resnik with "im going to tell all I know" and sonny just wore out his welcome.

no one ever saw sonny use heroin but, he overdosed on it, so the story goes.............