Yeah I'm sure all those Vietnamese people working in sweatshops are glad we came over to "liberate" them in the 1960's and 1970's. Don't misunderstand me, I'm glad I was born into a country where I have the freedom to live more or less how I want to within reason, but to pretend that America truly exists to liberate people the world over is just pure ignorance of all the things that the military does.HomicideHenry wrote:To me, such thoughts and opinions, are those of children. Life isn't sunshine and rainbows, and people eventually have to grow up. Most the world hates us Americans, and it's our servicemen who keep us safe. It's also our military that (despite such hatred around the world) that tries to lend assistance and help to those who ask for it (Vietnam, Germany, Britain, etc).gilgamesh wrote:I would identify myself as a citizen of the planet as well. Patriotism is just another tool to control the masses. It works, so they work it. I don't really see how being an American is anything to be proud of really.HomicideHenry wrote:Alot of veterans, including my dad, hold a disdain for Ali like they do Jane Fonda.
I don't blame them, considering here was a man spouting off he was the 'People's Champion', but he obviously wasn't the champion of the hundreds of thousands who were shipped over to Vietnam.
Ali was the 'champion' of his own purposes, he didn't have to do anything military wise, but just show up, give speeches and do exhibitions--- if even that. Ironic, that is how he made money during his exile going to colleges and filming computer fights, etc.
He claimed he did it so he wouldn't be promoting the conflict in Vietnam, etc. but he surely didn't seem to have a problem with it at all when he was drafted to take tests for the service years before and was classified as 1-Y (ineligible for service due to low test scores) to which he famously said "I said I was the greatest, never said I was the smartest!"
And he sure as hell didn't mind giving out hundreds of tickets to servicemen in Germany when he fought Richard Dunne, etc.
Mind you, there were other champions who lied, weasled and flat out refused service--- probably the biggest coward was Jess Willard. But at the end of the day, this man by refusing to serve his country more or less stood on the grounds that he was a 'citizen of the planet' and a 'muslim', rather than as an American citizen. That is essentially what he done--- his disservice was a flat out refusal to be identified as an American. He was black, muslim, and the people's champion---- he never once said he was an American through it all, in fact, that is why the myth that he threw his gold medal into the Ohio river became apart of the legend, that even then he broke away from the identity of being an American because he was treated less than a citizen for being black (when the true story is none of it ever happened, he simply lost the medal).
I don't see how being a citizen of anywhere is anything to be proud of. It's just where you were born, it doesn't define you in any way. People just think it does. Gotta keep the Sheeple in line.
Anyone who says they ain't proud of home, especially in national pride events like the Olympics, to me are people who knit pick about everything that is at fault, rather than what is good and taken for granted. I ain't saying every country wants to be like America--- cus we see that in the Middle East, those people don't want a democracy and why try to nation build, when you know damn well in a matter of weeks, months, years all the work would be destroyed anyways.
To me, sometimes myths and ideals are more important than history---- take Lincoln, as such. It is better that we tell our children about a man who died for the sake of people being free, because the truth is that is what needs to be said and told, because All Men Are Created Equal. If we told the real truth of Lincoln, how up until the week he died that he tried figuring out a way to send the slaves back to Africa or to "Lincolnia" (a colony in South America that he established) and that his 'Emmancipation Proclaimation' in truth was the Emmancipation of white people from blacks--- not the end all of slavery--- then we would have a nation that would not hold to what is true of life.
Alot of nations may have similar freedoms and governments to our own, but the cost of living is so high that they can never make it out of being one of the drones. From the moment of their birth to their death, they dont have the equal chance of ever breaking free from that mold. Here in America, anyone can become anything they want to be--- if only they work hard enough. Alot of places don't have even that, that no matter how hard you work, you still are taxed to death, rented to death, etc.
To me a citizen of the planet ideal is nothing more than the babbling of lazy hearts and people who dont want to stand for anything, but pick and chose what they wanna do and more times than not will continue to satisfy themselves rather than do what is necessary or required. Ali and many others did it so it wouldn't have effected his wallet, his religion, his life, etc. rather than stand up for a more noble cause--- for standing up for the ideal that ALL PEOPLE should be free.
People like to wrap it all up in a nice little bow and tell themselves that we're the savior of the World and we come over to put an end to all the bad in the World whenever somebody needs us.
Put yourself in the position of those people...Tanks, and Drones, and men with Assault Rifles come in killing you and your people in droves. Do you think they are there to help you?
Look at the way the media refers to the people that are killed in Afghanistan or Iraq. They're "insurgents"...what does that even mean? That word basically didn't even exist until this war. It's just a way to dehumanize these people so that when they die it doesn't matter. It wasn't a person that was killed, it was a no good America hating insurgent.
There are a lot of things about this country I love, and am truly grateful for, but the Military and the Government in general aren't on the list.
