BoxRec

It's hardly the fighters' faults though Boxing Prospect. Sad that you're sounding pleased these young lads have lost. The Queensbury business model is all about ticket sellers because without 'mainstream' media exposure it's very difficult to promote fighters.

BJS would outwork Eubank Jnr and box his head off.

Seems like I'm in the minority, I love Eubank Junior.

TerribleTerry wrote:BJS would outwork Eubank Jnr and box his head off.

That's why he won't fight him

Boxing Prospect wrote:

expe wrote: They were mainly hyped as a result of selling lots of tickets, wasn't really like anyone had truly bought into it and thought they were world beaters. You can't say their popularity was undeserved either, what does a fighter have to do to deserve popularity? They sell lots of tickets, most likely because they're probably sound lads who are a good laugh to be around and as time goes on, more and more people start coming along, it's not really a reflection of ability, loads of very average fighters have been very popular, Arturo Gatti being a good example, then there's fighters like Rigondeaux who have more talent in their little toe, but he's not great to watch if you're not a purist, so he's not a big draw.

They were hyped on tickets, but who really cares about the tickets? It should be talent that gets spoken about. For some reason in this country we seem to spend more time saying "well they sell 800 tickets" rather then "they were a 3 time amateur national champion". We seem to focus promotion on tickets rather than making promoters promote shows. The ticket seller system might be needed but it makes promoters lazy.

What does a fighter need to do to deserve to be popular? Something. Keane and Buglioni were hyped to the heavens on debut due to their popularity. That is undeserved and achievement should earn you popularity and should the way you achieve it.

Gatti was popular due to his style, as you said, did Buglioni strike you as that style? Did Keane? To me the answer is no.
Neither Keane nor Buglioni had anything that great about them in the ring and neither made me think "wow, I can't wait to see these" the only thing I got from watching them was "why are the comms sucking them off? They look clumsy, defensively flawed and aren't doing anything that makes me think wow"

Whether you like it or not, more tickets being sold means more money for the promoter and a better atmosphere, to go with a bigger crowd, it's only natural that some hype may follow that. If a fighter sells loads of tickets, then the promoter's job is more about picking the right fights and getting them exposure to a wider audience, through TV and other platforms, Buglioni was on Talksport earlier this week, that's got his name out there far more than any of his fights will have done, most likely that was organised by Fwank. Money's tight at the moment and a promoter could put on an excellent show, but it could completely bomb because none of the fighters are ticket sellers, because to get people to buy tickets at the box office would need serious promotion just so people knew there was a show on and even then, they might still not have a clue who any of the fighters are, the costs of all the advertising would possibly be more than the extra sales brought in. Unless it's a huge fight, outside of family and friends of the fighters, along with hardcore fans like us, the general public just aren't interested enough to buy a ticket, especially when they can sit at home and watch it on the box.

You're living in a dream world, their popularity as fighters comes from the fact that they're popular lads outside the ring, they announce their fighting, mates want to come along and support them, it's what friends do, the more friends you have, in general, the more tickets you sell, then friends of friends start coming down and watching and it all spirals from there, that's why Ricky Hatton was so well supported, even though he wasn't the greatest fighter of all time, he had probably the best support/fanbase in history. The best fighters aren't always the best supported fighters, it's just the way of the world.

Black Sam Bellamy wrote:It's hardly the fighters' faults though Boxing Prospect. Sad that you're sounding pleased these young lads have lost. The Queensbury business model is all about ticket sellers because without 'mainstream' media exposure it's very difficult to promote fighters.

I'm the same about all fighters who get OTT hype. I'd rather see an unhyped guy do well (Rey Loreto's victory over Joyi is my highight of the boxing year so far) than listen to commentators go on and on about how many tickets someone sells.

If their business model lacks promoting a show then their business model deserves to fails.

expe wrote:to go with a bigger crowd.

I'm looking at the crowd now.

expe wrote: Whether you like it or not, more tickets being sold means more money for the promoter and a better atmosphere, to go with a bigger crowd, it's only natural that some hype may follow that. If a fighter sells loads of tickets, then the promoter's job is more about picking the right fights and getting them exposure to a wider audience, through TV and other platforms, Buglioni was on Talksport earlier this week, that's got his name out there far more than any of his fights will have done, most likely that was organised by Fwank. Money's tight at the moment and a promoter could put on an excellent show, but it could completely bomb because none of the fighters are ticket sellers, because to get people to buy tickets at the box office would need serious promotion just so people knew there was a show on and even then, they might still not have a clue who any of the fighters are, the costs of all the advertising would possibly be more than the extra sales brought in. Unless it's a huge fight, outside of family and friends of the fighters, along with hardcore fans like us, the general public just aren't interested enough to buy a ticket, especially when they can sit at home and watch it on the box.

Whether I like it or not, I do like the fact both lost, hype bubbles have been burst and I won't need to be told that they are selling X tickets.

Money is tight, not just for promoters but for fans as well. Charging 800 people whatever it was for some of the mismatches we've seen is a disgrace and shouldn't be condoned! If they have friends willing to pay for it that's all well and good but I don't need to like it.

Watch tut eads.

Boxing Prospect wrote:

Black Sam Bellamy wrote:It's hardly the fighters' faults though Boxing Prospect. Sad that you're sounding pleased these young lads have lost. The Queensbury business model is all about ticket sellers because without 'mainstream' media exposure it's very difficult to promote fighters.

I'm the same about all fighters who get OTT hype. I'd rather see an unhyped guy do well (Rey Loreto's victory over Joyi is my highight of the boxing year so far) than listen to commentators go on and on about how many tickets someone sells.

If their business model lacks promoting a show then their business model deserves to fails.

How can they promote something that people aren't interested in? They could go overboard with the advertising, but they'd lose money in that case because it wouldn't bring enough money in, they don't have mainstream media coverage and the fights are on a niche channel with just over 100,000 subscribers. There's only so much you can do to promote a show, people are struggling for money, wages aren't rising, bills and other essentials are, in relative terms, wages are falling, so people have less disposable income and boxing isn't where they want to spend it.

expe wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:

Black Sam Bellamy wrote:It's hardly the fighters' faults though Boxing Prospect. Sad that you're sounding pleased these young lads have lost. The Queensbury business model is all about ticket sellers because without 'mainstream' media exposure it's very difficult to promote fighters.

I'm the same about all fighters who get OTT hype. I'd rather see an unhyped guy do well (Rey Loreto's victory over Joyi is my highight of the boxing year so far) than listen to commentators go on and on about how many tickets someone sells.

If their business model lacks promoting a show then their business model deserves to fails.

How can they promote something that people aren't interested in? They could go overboard with the advertising, but they'd lose money in that case because it wouldn't bring enough money in, they don't have mainstream media coverage and the fights are on a niche channel with just over 100,000 subscribers. There's only so much you can do to promote a show, people are struggling for money, wages aren't rising, bills and other essentials are, in relative terms, wages are falling, so people have less disposable income and boxing isn't where they want to spend it.

If people aren't interested then the question is "why" are they not interested?
Why has the main stream coverage gone?
Why don't more people watch boxing?

IMO the perceived mismatches are a big reason as to why so many don't care, the high cost is another. The tickets for this were what? Similar to a premier league game?...

It really is mental the power McKenzie has. Such long levers.

jameswilson wrote:It really is mental the power McKenzie has. Such long levers.

Conquest's chin is pretty shite aswell though to be honest.

Damn..

Conquest doesnt have the chin/punch resistance to to go to that next level. Bad, bad night for Frank though.

The upsetter strikes again. Got him in play for the stoppage @ 25-1 after the 2nd round.

Warren has to question the match making tonight - 3 ticket sellers losing won't go down well.

TerribleTerry wrote:Warren has to question the match making tonight - 3 ticket sellers losing won't go down well.

Yeah Mckenzie isnt the best opponent for a guy who clearly doesnt take a shot well.

That seemed inevitable after the first knockdown. Conquest does not react to punches well...

crusader wrote:That seemed inevitable after the first knockdown. Conquest does not react to punches well...

Even in the fights he's won he's been hurt pretty badly. Not good.

McKenzie vs Dawson would be some fight.

Boxing Prospect wrote:

expe wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:
I'm the same about all fighters who get OTT hype. I'd rather see an unhyped guy do well (Rey Loreto's victory over Joyi is my highight of the boxing year so far) than listen to commentators go on and on about how many tickets someone sells.

If their business model lacks promoting a show then their business model deserves to fails.

How can they promote something that people aren't interested in? They could go overboard with the advertising, but they'd lose money in that case because it wouldn't bring enough money in, they don't have mainstream media coverage and the fights are on a niche channel with just over 100,000 subscribers. There's only so much you can do to promote a show, people are struggling for money, wages aren't rising, bills and other essentials are, in relative terms, wages are falling, so people have less disposable income and boxing isn't where they want to spend it.

If people aren't interested then the question is "why" are they not interested?
Why has the main stream coverage gone?
Why don't more people watch boxing?

IMO the perceived mismatches are a big reason as to why so many don't care, the high cost is another. The tickets for this were what? Similar to a premier league game?...

There's so many other places people can spend their money now and they don't have much of it to start with anyway, that people choose to spend it elsewhere. There's lots of reasons why, but there's only so much that can be done, I would never choose boxing over football and there's nothing that could be done to change that, people have such varied interests that a sport like boxing isn't going to get them interested. Most people only watch golf when it's a major, tennis at the grand slams, boxing in the big fights, rugby at the world cup or when England are playing, because they're niche sports, they appeal to certain groups of people, only branching out into the mainstream for major events. There's very few sports that aren't like that, football's one, cricket's possibly another, but it's a short list and it's not going to be getting longer anytime soon.

columbo wrote:Conquest doesnt have the chin/punch resistance to to go to that next level. Bad, bad night for Frank though.

He didn't seem to look that bothered though - even at the end. I was watching to see if his face had gone crimson !

To be fair, his run of misfortune is beyond a joke. When I say misfortune I also mean the defections from his camp. What is he now left with in terms of headline fighters, Frankie Gavin, BJS... and that's it ? Delboy is spoken for, obviously he is headlining a massive show in his own right. Buglioni can be rebuilt, on undercard fights.

I wonder if a part of Fwank will be that bothered at his ailing fortunes as a promoter. If that is all he did, he would certainly have been crimson tonight. The TV channel is bigger than any single fighter for him, if he can get it to break even and start making money, he has well and truly cracked it. One thing is for sure, he is a shrewd and intelligent guy.

I bet Eddie is laughing his head off though.

JimJim2009 wrote:

columbo wrote:Conquest doesnt have the chin/punch resistance to to go to that next level. Bad, bad night for Frank though.

He didn't seem to look that bothered though - even at the end. I was watching to see if his face had gone crimson !

To be fair, his run of misfortune is beyond a joke. When I say misfortune I also mean the defections from his camp. What is he now left with in terms of headline fighters, Frankie Gavin, BJS... and that's it ? Delboy is spoken for, obviously he is headlining a massive show in his own right. Buglioni can be rebuilt, on undercard fights.

I wonder if a part of Fwank will be that bothered at his ailing fortunes as a promoter. If that is all he did, he would certainly have been crimson tonight. The TV channel is bigger than any single fighter for him, if he can get it to break even and start making money, he has well and truly cracked it. One thing is for sure, he is a shrewd and intelligent guy.

I bet Eddie is laughing his head off though.

Yeah. I almost get the feeling that the channel being a success generally is more of his goal now than the promoting stuff. If he was pack in the promoting now, he's had a great career and his sons are doing the lower level stuff it seems and they might make it and they might not but it's not the end of the world. They can either work behind the scenes on the channel like they already do or do something else away from boxing im sure.

In his column today, Fwank was at pains to point out that Hatton, Benn, Eubank, Calzaghe and Naz weren't top, top amateurs (ie, on the world stage). Fair point, and I guess indirectly aimed at the Olympians with Matchroom. Fwank also banged the drum about how good he is at moving fighters, there's no doubt about that but tonight it backfired a bit.

If you can successfully run the world's only dedicated TV channel, your own stable doesn't need to be full of expensive Olympians. You are in the business of supplying regular content to your subscribers. Unless Sky launched their own Boxing channel, they are not competing against BN. Matchroom is about as full of British boxers as its going to get, and there's plenty left for Fwank. I bet his ego is bruised, with all the big names at the rival camp. I hope the channel survives and prospers