BoxRec

Crease wrote:Only Geale, Rubio & Macklin are in with a shout for being top 15. Have a look at the boxrec rankings for the other guys and you will see they are all ranked very, very low down the rankings. These guys just aren't as good as you are making out to be.

I am talking about boxrec MW rankings, and all these fighters: Macklin, Stevens, Adama, Geale, Rubio were in top 15 at the time they faced GGG.

Crease wrote:Only Geale, Rubio & Macklin are in with a shout for being top 15. Have a look at the boxrec rankings for the other guys and you will see they are all ranked very, very low down the rankings. These guys just aren't as good as you are making out to be.

ikorolev wrote:I am talking about boxrec MW rankings, and all these fighters: Macklin, Stevens, Adama, Geale, Rubio were in top 15 at the time they faced GGG. Look at their (and others) ranking history.

fergusg wrote:

ikorolev wrote:Correcting myself: who else faced FIVE top 15 opponents in a row and impressively KO'ed all of them barely losing a round ?

Out of interest...

Do you feel that Gennady Golovkin’s five fight KO streak over Matthew Macklin, Curtis Stevens, Osumanu Adama, Daniel Geale and Marco Antonio Rubio… trumps Mayweather’s 14-fight streak of consecutive victories over men who have held world titles (a run which began more than nine years ago against Arturo Gatti).

Crease wrote:

ikorolev wrote:I am talking about boxrec MW rankings, and all these fighters: Macklin, Stevens, Adama, Geale, Rubio were in top 15 at the time they faced GGG. Look at their (and others) ranking history.

Yeah, but the Boxrec rankings ONLY give us their current rankings. It does not mention their rankings at any time of the past.

And I invite you to prove me wrong!!!!

Ricky_ wrote:As opposed to who??

Crease wrote:

ikorolev wrote:Oops, it was actually 5. I am talking about boxrec MW rankings, and all these fighters: Macklin, Stevens, Adama, Geale, Rubio were in top 15 at the time they faced GGG.

No problem. Can you prove it, please?

Crease wrote:

ikorolev wrote:I am talking about boxrec MW rankings, and all these fighters: Macklin, Stevens, Adama, Geale, Rubio were in top 15 at the time they faced GGG. Look at their (and others) ranking history.

Yeah, but the Boxrec rankings ONLY give us their current rankings. It does not mention their rankings at any time of the past.

And I invite you to prove me wrong!!!!

Crease wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:As opposed to who??

As opposed to other Middleweight fighters of recent years (circa 2010-present) since Golovkin became World Champion. There are a handful of good'uns that he never faced; Sergio Martinez, Felix Sturm, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr, Arthur Abraham, Martin Murray, Darren Barker, Dmitry Pirog & Peter Quillin. Not to mention that Miguel Cotto has now come in to the division.

^ The above guys that I have named have all been stone-clad top 10 (15 at least) guys for the period of recent years. Golovkin has not fought any of them.

ikorolev wrote:You can see their rating history (in green before and in red after GGG fight):

2013-11-02 159½ Curtis Stevens 159¼ 25-3-0
Madison Square Garden Theater, New York, New York, USA W RTD 8 12 middleweight 787 829 292 249

2014-02-01 159½ Osumanu Adama 159¼ 22-3-0
Salle des etoiles, Monte Carlo, Monaco W TKO 7 12 middleweight 829 844 273 243

fergusg wrote: GGG gained a top-ten rank by the WBA in June 2008 and also by the WBC in July the same year.

It wasn’t until April 2009 that he gained a top ten rank by the WBO, but became the number one challenger by August the same year. In July 2009, GGG also gained a top-ten rank by the IBF.

Gennady Golovkin eventually won the WBA "regular" World middleweight title in 2010.

Technically-speaking, I could argue that Gennady Golovkin has been world-rated middleweight since 2008, which means he’s had more than six years’ worth of opportunity to fight the likes of:
• Arthur Abraham
• Felix Sturm
• Kelly Pavlik
• Paul Williams
• Jermain Taylor
• Sergio Martinez
• Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
• Andy Lee
• Martin Murray
• Darren Barker
• Dmitry Pirog
• Peter Quillin
• Anthony Mundine
• Sam Soliman
• Anthony Mundine
• Daniel Jacobs

I’m not for one second suggesting that Gennady Golovkin wasn’t capable of beating many of these men… and perhaps there are legitimate reasons why a few of them weren’t viable options, but he should have fought more guys of this sort of calibre!

Crease wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:As opposed to who??

As opposed to other Middleweight fighters of recent years (circa 2010-present) since Golovkin became World Champion. There are a handful of good'uns that he never faced; Sergio Martinez, Felix Sturm, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr, Arthur Abraham, Martin Murray, Darren Barker, Dmitry Pirog & Peter Quillin. Not to mention that Miguel Cotto has now come in to the division.

^ The above guys that I have named have all been stone-clad top 10 (15 at least) guys for the period of recent years. Golovkin has not fought any of them.

Ricky_ wrote:So let me get this straight, you want to include a prime & active Sergio Martinez from 4 years ago, but also a current version of Cotto (I repeat, never to have fought at the MW limit).

Ricky_ wrote:In order to satisfy you, Golovkin would need to hire Marty McFly and fight the best versions of these inconsistent contenders by going back and forth to particular time periods over the last 4 years

ikorolev wrote:When you are looking at a certain fighter, select Ratings On radio button. It is sticky, so you will see everybody's rating history.

ikorolev wrote:

fergusg wrote: GGG gained a top-ten rank by the WBA in June 2008 and also by the WBC in July the same year.

It wasn’t until April 2009 that he gained a top ten rank by the WBO, but became the number one challenger by August the same year. In July 2009, GGG also gained a top-ten rank by the IBF.

Gennady Golovkin eventually won the WBA "regular" World middleweight title in 2010.

Technically-speaking, I could argue that Gennady Golovkin has been world-rated middleweight since 2008, which means he’s had more than six years’ worth of opportunity to fight the likes of:
• Arthur Abraham
• Felix Sturm
• Kelly Pavlik
• Paul Williams
• Jermain Taylor
• Sergio Martinez
• Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
• Andy Lee
• Martin Murray
• Darren Barker
• Dmitry Pirog
• Peter Quillin
• Anthony Mundine
• Sam Soliman
• Anthony Mundine
• Daniel Jacobs

I’m not for one second suggesting that Gennady Golovkin wasn’t capable of beating many of these men… and perhaps there are legitimate reasons why a few of them weren’t viable options, but he should have fought more guys of this sort of calibre!

Have you heard about "risk over reward" argument ? He was too much of risk with very low reward which is why nobody sent offers to him and when his team was trying to talk with above guys, they were declining.

Crease wrote:

ikorolev wrote:When you are looking at a certain fighter, select Ratings On radio button. It is sticky, so you will see everybody's rating history.

Fair enough. Thanks for that. And yet it still doesn't tell you exactly where they were ranked, it only gives you numbers.

Crease wrote:

ikorolev wrote:When you are looking at a certain fighter, select Ratings On radio button. It is sticky, so you will see everybody's rating history.

Fair enough. Thanks for that. And yet it still doesn't tell you exactly where they were ranked, it only gives you numbers.

Crease wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:So let me get this straight, you want to include a prime & active Sergio Martinez from 4 years ago, but also a current version of Cotto (I repeat, never to have fought at the MW limit).

I think it's important to focus in on exactly why I brought them up. It was stated that the likes of; Ishida, Simon & Makoto Fuchigami were ranked within the top 15 Middleweights in the world when Golovkin fought them. And I threw up a shortlist of genuine top 15 guys in the weight class.

Ricky_ wrote:Cotto shouldn't even be ranked at MW at all imo. He beat shot 1 legged Martinez at a catchweight.

Ricky_ wrote:And just out of interest, if Martinez decided to find the balls to fight Golovkin instead of taking fights with Macklin/Barker/Murray, would you have seen any other outcome than Golovkin by early ko?

fergusg wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:You listed Mundine twice, but he only ducked Ggg once.

D'oh! Typo!

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:Most of the guys on your list were sent offers, a lot better than whatever these guys ended up taking. Risk/reward of course, and to these guys G is the ultimate risk

To be honest, none of us know for sure that all these men were actually offered fights, since the majority of these offers weren’t actually confirmed by the relevant parties. Also, we don’t know how good these offers were.

If the men I’ve listed knew about Golovkin’s talent, but wanted to be sufficiently rewarded for taking on such a big challenge, then GGG’s team should have made them an offer that was simply far too good to turn down!

Golovkin’s handlers should have invested heavily in their man from the get-go, because he should have been household name by now, but they didn’t and the quality of GGG’s resume is relatively weak as a direct result of their lack of confidence.

Crease wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:Cotto shouldn't even be ranked at MW at all imo. He beat shot 1 legged Martinez at a catchweight.

But we didn't know that Martinez was shot before the fight. It's easy to say it now post fight, but before the fight he was the number one Middleweight in the world.

Ricky_ wrote:And just out of interest, if Martinez decided to find the balls to fight Golovkin instead of taking fights with Macklin/Barker/Murray, would you have seen any other outcome than Golovkin by early ko?

As a matter of fact, I'd favour him to beat them all. But that's not the point, the point is that he never actually fought them. There's a big difference between fans believing that a guy would win a fight, and the guy actually winning the fight.