BoxRec

..what counts is that Pavlik had run out of gas at 28...whereas 36-year-old GGG is still going strong and according to many has still to lose...

greg wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:37 ..what counts is that Pavlik had run out of gas at 28...whereas 36-year-old GGG is still going strong and according to many has still to lose...

and done by 30.

oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:36

Jacopodb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:27

jamamb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:21 and that has what baring on how kelly pavlik and ggg compare?

I edited my previous post to be more clear: Canelo is the closest thing to Pavlik GGG has ever fought, and lighter Floyd Jr. beat him: if Floyd handled one like Canelo (heavier than Floyd), and GGG couldn't, despite Canelo being skinnier and naturally lighter than him, how could GGG handle a big powerpuncher like Pavlik? This doesn't mean anything, but because we are talking basically a fantasy fight between GGG and Pavlik, we might just figure out what happened in these boxer's careers.

So we're (you are) comparing GGG v. Canelo at 160 to GGG fighting Pavlik at 168? or 160? At 168 I'd have a tough time choosing. At 160 I think GGG wins as it takes some of the size advantage away. Pavlik was a filled out SMW (age 26) and although he fought mostly at 160 he seemed more comfortable at 168 to me even though he got schooled by Hopkins at that weight..

That's what makes Pavlik so dangerous at middleweight, I think.

Hopkins schooled Pavlik, but it's easier to school a lighter guy than a heavier one, and lighter Canelo schooled GGG (look at Golovkin's face after the fight... and there are still people saying that he had "outboxed" Canelo... how on Earth..?)... Canelo that was schooled by lighter Floyd Jr. (now I know that Floyd's Canelo was less-accomplished than GGG's Canelo, but he was also heavier than Floyd, so it compensates).

Props to old Hopkins for being in such shape against Pavlik, but there's no shame for Pavlik in having been schooled by such a heavier opponent (look at their wrist-gap: Hopkins has considerably thicker bones = heavier punches). Hopkins was way past his prime, but still in amazing shape, against Pavlik. It all went downhill from there, for Pavlik, and he decided to retire quite early.

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying into your logic. No disrespect. we just disagree.

oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:55 I'm sorry, but I'm not buying into your logic. No disrespect. we just disagree.

It's not a problem, that's what the whole betting business is based on: I know you might call me a Pavlik-nut-hugger, and you'd probably guess right, but I still have on my mind what work Pavlik made of that vicious Taylor: if he did that to such a big-bad-guy, imagine what situation Canelo might approach, while facing "The Ghost".

Jacopodb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:53

oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:36

Jacopodb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:27

I edited my previous post to be more clear: Canelo is the closest thing to Pavlik GGG has ever fought, and lighter Floyd Jr. beat him: if Floyd handled one like Canelo (heavier than Floyd), and GGG couldn't, despite Canelo being skinnier and naturally lighter than him, how could GGG handle a big powerpuncher like Pavlik? This doesn't mean anything, but because we are talking basically a fantasy fight between GGG and Pavlik, we might just figure out what happened in these boxer's careers.

So we're (you are) comparing GGG v. Canelo at 160 to GGG fighting Pavlik at 168? or 160? At 168 I'd have a tough time choosing. At 160 I think GGG wins as it takes some of the size advantage away. Pavlik was a filled out SMW (age 26) and although he fought mostly at 160 he seemed more comfortable at 168 to me even though he got schooled by Hopkins at that weight..

That's what makes Pavlik so dangerous at middleweight, I think.

Hopkins schooled Pavlik, but it's easier to school a lighter guy than a heavier one, and lighter Canelo schooled GGG (look at Golovkin's face after the fight... and there are still people saying that he had "outboxed" Canelo... how on Earth..?)... Canelo that was schooled by lighter Floyd Jr. (now I know that Floyd's Canelo was less-accomplished than GGG's Canelo, but he was also heavier than Floyd, so it compensates).

Props to old Hopkins for being in such shape against Pavlik, but there's no shame for Pavlik in having been schooled by such a heavier opponent (look at their wrist-gap: Hopkins has considerably thicker bones = heavier punches). Hopkins was way past his prime, but still in amazing shape, against Pavlik. It all went downhill from there, for Pavlik, and he decided to retire quite early.

So canelo "schooled" golovkin? Yeah right. And having "thicker bones"/larger wrists makes you punch harder? Sure. The insights of a real expert.

Jacopodb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:53

oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:36

Jacopodb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:27

I edited my previous post to be more clear: Canelo is the closest thing to Pavlik GGG has ever fought, and lighter Floyd Jr. beat him: if Floyd handled one like Canelo (heavier than Floyd), and GGG couldn't, despite Canelo being skinnier and naturally lighter than him, how could GGG handle a big powerpuncher like Pavlik? This doesn't mean anything, but because we are talking basically a fantasy fight between GGG and Pavlik, we might just figure out what happened in these boxer's careers.

So we're (you are) comparing GGG v. Canelo at 160 to GGG fighting Pavlik at 168? or 160? At 168 I'd have a tough time choosing. At 160 I think GGG wins as it takes some of the size advantage away. Pavlik was a filled out SMW (age 26) and although he fought mostly at 160 he seemed more comfortable at 168 to me even though he got schooled by Hopkins at that weight..

That's what makes Pavlik so dangerous at middleweight, I think.

Hopkins schooled Pavlik, but it's easier to school a lighter guy than a heavier one, and lighter Canelo schooled GGG (look at Golovkin's face after the fight... and there are still people saying that he had "outboxed" Canelo... how on Earth..?)... Canelo that was schooled by lighter Floyd Jr. (now I know that Floyd's Canelo was less-accomplished than GGG's Canelo, but he was also heavier than Floyd, so it compensates).

Props to old Hopkins for being in such shape against Pavlik, but there's no shame for Pavlik in having been schooled by such a heavier opponent (look at their wrist-gap: Hopkins has considerably thicker bones = heavier punches). Hopkins was way past his prime, but still in amazing shape, against Pavlik. It all went downhill from there, for Pavlik, and he decided to retire quite early.

So canelo "schooled" golovkin? Yeah right. And having "thicker bones"/larger wrists makes you punch harder? Sure. The insights of a real expert.

adislav123 wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 16:55

Jacopodb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:53

oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:36
So we're (you are) comparing GGG v. Canelo at 160 to GGG fighting Pavlik at 168? or 160? At 168 I'd have a tough time choosing. At 160 I think GGG wins as it takes some of the size advantage away. Pavlik was a filled out SMW (age 26) and although he fought mostly at 160 he seemed more comfortable at 168 to me even though he got schooled by Hopkins at that weight..

That's what makes Pavlik so dangerous at middleweight, I think.

Hopkins schooled Pavlik, but it's easier to school a lighter guy than a heavier one, and lighter Canelo schooled GGG (look at Golovkin's face after the fight... and there are still people saying that he had "outboxed" Canelo... how on Earth..?)... Canelo that was schooled by lighter Floyd Jr. (now I know that Floyd's Canelo was less-accomplished than GGG's Canelo, but he was also heavier than Floyd, so it compensates).

Props to old Hopkins for being in such shape against Pavlik, but there's no shame for Pavlik in having been schooled by such a heavier opponent (look at their wrist-gap: Hopkins has considerably thicker bones = heavier punches). Hopkins was way past his prime, but still in amazing shape, against Pavlik. It all went downhill from there, for Pavlik, and he decided to retire quite early.

So canelo "schooled" golovkin? Yeah right. And having "thicker bones"/larger wrists makes you punch harder? Sure. The insights of a real expert.

A heavier skeleton can support a bigger muscular mass (you don't need a Nobel Prize to notice this), the rest is technique: at a roughly same reach advantage and skill level, the guy with heavier bones can deliver heavier punches.

Canelo definitely scaled down Golovkin, exposing his flaws: I don't think GGG got that bruised face from falling down the stairs, dude...

"at the roughly same amount of brain mass like everybody most people still can't wrap their heads around the most basic shit!"

U can quote me here.

Sorry, i'm caught in an overwhelmingly "insert a word for total disgust&delight at the same time" hangover/bender, i'm to tired to explain your nonsense to you. The "thicker boned/harder puncher" shit you utter is just that.

Nothing in your "a heavier skeleton....", your last post makes sense... you are terribly wrong.

Some would answer you by ...Look up sandy saddler!

J say fornicate you! You will never get it... there are no boxers with the same skill level & reach & height & mass & what ever fornicate you criteria you wanna pull out of ur ass ... where then the one with wider wrists... whatever! fornicate you! Moron!

I don't mean it, i apologize! Just tgecbest 2 u & ur family! Love!

Canelo lost to ggg x2. Fact.

Jacopodb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 16:46

oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:55 I'm sorry, but I'm not buying into your logic. No disrespect. we just disagree.

It's not a problem, that's what the whole betting business is based on: I know you might call me a Pavlik-nut-hugger, and you'd probably guess right, but I still have on my mind what work Pavlik made of that vicious Taylor: if he did that to such a big-bad-guy, imagine what situation Canelo might approach, while facing "The Ghost".

A performance against Taylor- who you seem to greatly over-rate- is very, very little indication of how someone might do against Canelo or GGG.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑01 Jan 2019, 09:11

Jacopodb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 16:46

oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:55 I'm sorry, but I'm not buying into your logic. No disrespect. we just disagree.

It's not a problem, that's what the whole betting business is based on: I know you might call me a Pavlik-nut-hugger, and you'd probably guess right, but I still have on my mind what work Pavlik made of that vicious Taylor: if he did that to such a big-bad-guy, imagine what situation Canelo might approach, while facing "The Ghost".

A performance against Taylor- who you seem to greatly over-rate- is very, very little indication of how someone might do against Canelo or GGG.

I might overrate him, but he has been a unified-world champion while in his own peaking years, nevertheless, in a tougher business for middleweights than today's (might be my own ignorance, but until proven wrong...): fast, dirty and slick enough to handle Hopkins, which, as old as you might consider him, he's in a league of his own, regarding the fitness/ring smarts/longevity ratio: he went on to beat dangerous opposition in his 40s... 40-years-old Hopkins might give peaking-GGG more than a concern, to say the least, and Taylor has beaten that B-Hop: looks like a decent argument to me...

adislav123 wrote: ↑01 Jan 2019, 06:19 "at the roughly same amount of brain mass like everybody most people still can't wrap their heads around the most basic poo!"

U can quote me here.

Sorry, i'm caught in an overwhelmingly "insert a word for total disgust&delight at the same time" hangover/bender, i'm to tired to explain your nonsense to you. The "thicker boned/harder puncher" poo you utter is just that.

Nothing in your "a heavier skeleton....", your last post makes sense... you are terribly wrong.

Some would answer you by ...Look up sandy saddler!

J say eff you! You will never get it... there are no boxers with the same skill level & reach & height & mass & what ever eff you criteria you wanna pull out of ur ass ... where then the one with wider wrists... whatever! eff you! Moron!

I don't mean it, i apologize! Just tgecbest 2 u & ur family! Love!

Canelo lost to ggg x2. Fact.

Take it easy, fella. Arrogance doesn't work.

There are plenty of respectable arguments over bone-structure and related power.
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/bone- ... er.364325/

People do a lot to try and improve their bone-structure because it gives them more power.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... .features2

Here. Now you can get back hammering your balls with an ice pick, or, if you prefer: now go home and get your f*cking shine box...

adislav123 wrote: ↑01 Jan 2019, 06:19 whatever! eff you! Moron!

I don't mean it, i apologize!

Now, talk about some cowardice...

After re-watching many bouts of both fighters, I now believe that GGG's superior skillset coupled with his power would overcome any size strength advantage that Pavlik may have. Pavlik was tough, but you lose that toughness when you are slowly grinded to death over 12 rounds. GGG late stoppage.

I would put prime Pavlik on the same level as prime Abraham, i.e. nowhere close to Golovkin.

..of course, Pavlik could bang and had his moments..I kinda thought of him as mentally fragile, how else could one explain that 70-80 percent of his opponents were basically nobodies and his top level shelf life was like 2/2,5 years..incidentally his size and reach were that of Povetkin..I would assume that a lot of his opponents were just overwhelmed with this advantage and certainly his decent punch...liked to watch him but don't think he would have been able to stay competitive for 12 rounds with GGG..

Pavlik was a beast at best but for me he
had a little to much for him late stoppage ggg

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑01 Jan 2019, 20:18 I would put prime Pavlik on the same level as prime Abraham, i.e. nowhere close to Golovkin.

I agree that they're very similar, and Abraham hits hard, and has an excellent record, but he's also shorter, more robotic and intricate than Pavlik.

Jacopodb wrote: ↑02 Jan 2019, 11:21

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑01 Jan 2019, 20:18 I would put prime Pavlik on the same level as prime Abraham, i.e. nowhere close to Golovkin.

I agree that they're very similar, and Abraham hits hard, and has an excellent record, but he's also shorter, more robotic and intricate than Pavlik.

I third this opinion. I thought the thread was actually a joke and didn't really expect it to be taken seriously. I guess Pavlik has some fans for his performances, but he gets walked down and smeared on the sidewalk by GGG. A 700yo Bernhard Hopkins pitched a near shut out against him and Golovkin is at least at Hopkins late career level.

Jacopodb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:08

oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 13:49

Jacopodb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 13:46

Mayweather Jr. was 36 when he defeated Canelo (prime Canelo was less-tough than the Canelo that fought Golovkin, but bigger than Floyd Jr. nevertheless), so what?

Golovkin, at 25 years old, was still fighting bums... Pavlik, at 25 years old, became a unified world champion: how can you compare prime Pavlik to prime Golovkin..?
Either you have no idea of who Pavlik has been, or you're overestimating GGG.

And Pavlik was done at 30, and Golovkin was still getting better. We can go on and on and on and on...

I reckon it would be a close fight. By the way, Golovkin didn't get better enough to scale down Canelo.

And Pavlik would've lost handily to Canelo

Jacopodb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 19:22

adislav123 wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 16:55

Jacopodb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 14:53

That's what makes Pavlik so dangerous at middleweight, I think.

Hopkins schooled Pavlik, but it's easier to school a lighter guy than a heavier one, and lighter Canelo schooled GGG (look at Golovkin's face after the fight... and there are still people saying that he had "outboxed" Canelo... how on Earth..?)... Canelo that was schooled by lighter Floyd Jr. (now I know that Floyd's Canelo was less-accomplished than GGG's Canelo, but he was also heavier than Floyd, so it compensates).

Props to old Hopkins for being in such shape against Pavlik, but there's no shame for Pavlik in having been schooled by such a heavier opponent (look at their wrist-gap: Hopkins has considerably thicker bones = heavier punches). Hopkins was way past his prime, but still in amazing shape, against Pavlik. It all went downhill from there, for Pavlik, and he decided to retire quite early.

So canelo "schooled" golovkin? Yeah right. And having "thicker bones"/larger wrists makes you punch harder? Sure. The insights of a real expert.

A heavier skeleton can support a bigger muscular mass (you don't need a Nobel Prize to notice this), the rest is technique: at a roughly same reach advantage and skill level, the guy with heavier bones can deliver heavier punches.

Canelo definitely scaled down Golovkin, exposing his flaws: I don't think GGG got that bruised face from falling down the stairs, dude...

Ok, then why don't Pacquiao support a bigger musclular mass than most welterweights when he clearly has wrists bigger than some middleweights?

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑02 Jan 2019, 15:50

Jacopodb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 19:22

adislav123 wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 16:55

So canelo "schooled" golovkin? Yeah right. And having "thicker bones"/larger wrists makes you punch harder? Sure. The insights of a real expert.

A heavier skeleton can support a bigger muscular mass (you don't need a Nobel Prize to notice this), the rest is technique: at a roughly same reach advantage and skill level, the guy with heavier bones can deliver heavier punches.

Canelo definitely scaled down Golovkin, exposing his flaws: I don't think GGG got that bruised face from falling down the stairs, dude...

Ok, then why don't Pacquiao support a bigger musclular mass than most welterweights when he clearly has wrists bigger than some middleweights?

I just took a glimpse at both the Cotto and the Bradley fights, and I haven't noticed a major difference, such as in Pavlik vs Hopkins... what middleweights were you talking about?

Pacquiao withstanded a peculiar training to strengthen his bones, causing fibrocartilage-callus (bone-calluses), but it might not be an asset... presumably, his bones might have lost elasticity, so it's not very much a natural thing... he did that all over his body, so that might have braced his arms' bones, too. Here's some footage of some of that infamous training, for your entertainment:

Jacopodb wrote: ↑02 Jan 2019, 16:47

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑02 Jan 2019, 15:50

Jacopodb wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 19:22

A heavier skeleton can support a bigger muscular mass (you don't need a Nobel Prize to notice this), the rest is technique: at a roughly same reach advantage and skill level, the guy with heavier bones can deliver heavier punches.

Canelo definitely scaled down Golovkin, exposing his flaws: I don't think GGG got that bruised face from falling down the stairs, dude...

Ok, then why don't Pacquiao support a bigger musclular mass than most welterweights when he clearly has wrists bigger than some middleweights?

I just took a glimpse at both the Cotto and the Bradley fights, and I haven't noticed a major difference, such as in Pavlik vs Hopkins... what middleweights were you talking about?

Pacquiao withstanded a peculiar training to strengthen his bones, causing fibrocartilage-callus (bone-calluses), but it might not be an asset... presumably, his bones might have lost elasticity, so it's not very much a natural thing... he did that all over his body, so that might have braced his arms' bones, too. Here's some footage of some of that infamous training, for your entertainment:

Pacquiao has 8" wrists
https://www.badlefthook.com/2011/3/15/2 ... alysts-and

Joe Calzaghe and BHop's wrists are 7 and 6" respectively.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/other ... -tape.html

wilder seems pretty skinny

Heavier bones with the same muscle mass put you in a higher weight class. It can't possibly be beneficial.