BoxRec

Posted: **05 Apr 2018, 09:27**

Johnsons tendency to parry punches would not work against big George. Couple body shots like he landed against bert cooper should work. But for what's it's worth, I don't know if he (johnson) could have beaten smokin bert.

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 01:37**

tennessee wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 09:27 Johnsons tendency to parry punches would not work against big George. Couple body shots like he landed against bert cooper should work. But for what's it's worth, I don't know if he (johnson) could have beaten smokin bert.

There's no reason Johnson's masterful defense wouldn't be effective against Foreman if Jimmy Young's was... Jimmy only had a few fights and numerous losses -- but he ripped George up and down with quick punches... Weak hitting Young knocked an exhausted Foreman down in the 12th and nearly finished the swinger... Johnson would play with the whiffer.

Posted: **09 Apr 2018, 02:43**

Foreman wins by KO IN 5.

Posted: **09 Apr 2018, 02:48**

Johnson was a defensive master... Foreman was wide open... That = Foreman getting boxed to death... It's a mismatch.

Posted: **09 Apr 2018, 10:05**

He didn't completely fail with clever boxers....Peralta was roughly the size of Jack Johnson and on the clever side.......Peralta managed a draw with Lyle but didn't quite get past Foreman. And it's not like Foreman wasn't competitive with Young......

Splain that Sparky.

Posted: **09 Apr 2018, 19:19**

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑09 Apr 2018, 10:05 He didn't completely fail with clever boxers....Peralta was roughly the size of Jack Johnson and on the clever side.......Peralta managed a draw with Lyle but didn't quite get past Foreman. And it's not like Foreman wasn't competitive with Young......

Splain that Sparky.

Okay Sparkless...

Peralta fought most of his career as a Light Heavyweight... He got a Light Heavyweight shot at punchless Willie Pastrano, and lost in a few rounds... He certainly wasn't that clever... Greg was wide open, tough as Hell, and slow... Certainly no Billy Conn or Michael Spinks... He wasn't even as clever as Roy Jones Jr.

Young had a much better stance and much better timing on his jab than Peralta... Young had a more skillful right hand counter and a better inside game.. Young had no power, but with the assets he had he beat the clueless Foreman...

Young lacked the power and strength of Jack Johnson -- as Johnson was for 227-pound Jim Jeffries - who was perhaps not better a boxer than Foreman, but just as tough if not tougher... Jeffries was a brutally powerful man... Jeff wasted Fitzsimmons and Corbett... Johnson mastered Jeffries and was the first man to beat him, floor him, or knock him out... It was an instance of total domination.. Young was 20-5-2 and far from being as master as he lost 3 of his next 4 fights.

Posted: **09 Apr 2018, 21:02**

Some of the information you just offered up is fact......but wasn't Jeffries just a bit out of practice by that time?

Never mind....and yes he was.

Keep in mind, it's always good to remember to include information which is significant when addressing a large audience of curious minds. Otherwise hungry minds will get confused, and as a result may become disoriented by the lack of facts being offered up. It could even make those who know no better become suspicious of you, and accuse you of "spinning" facts to serve some sort of clandestine purpose. Or perhaps imagine that you are obfuscating in public.

Your not ....."Up to anything" in this case are you?

Posted: **09 Apr 2018, 21:19**

Jeffries took part in many exhibition matches and everything in anyone's power was used to get him into the best shape possible because America wanted Johnson beaten... Jeffries should have been able to fight half-assed well... He couldn't.

Johnson completely dominated and there wasn't a man on the planet to beat Johnson at his best.

After Jimmy Young disposed of George Foreman he lost 3 out of his next 4 fights... Comprende?

Young was NOT the world's dominant Heavyweight Champion..... Jack Johnson was.... There's a big difference.

Posted: **13 Apr 2018, 12:25**

- Kally dear, it goes without saying that discretion is the better part of valor, and you and your like minded ilk's greatest flaws are the maniacal overexposure of your collective boxing expertise ignorance.

Like your claim Roy had to gain and lose 25 lbs of muscle to fight Ruiz before returning to LH. Sweetums, it was well known Roy's fight weights at LH were 185+, and he weighed in for Ruiz at 193 lbs, so that's only 8 lbs or less muscle he had to weigh in that 190 lb+ heavyweight era, like 67% less than your blabber.

Jimmy Young went on an outstanding run after being sacrificed to Shavers in his terrible mismatch of experience vs novice. He knocked out Richard Dunn before Ali did and beat Jose Luis Garcia before Kenny Norton could avenge his knockout loss. He whooped Lyle before Ali did, and then out clowned and outwhooped Ali who did his best impression of a tubby celebrity boxer without a clue, alas to no credit by the judges. So, George was really facing the people's heavyweight champ in some two bit venue King brought him to telling him he was knocking out people too fast and could never get another title shot by doing that. Never mind that he was the number 1 contender with Ali admitting that he turned down a $10 million split for the rematch in Indonesia to go look like doggie doo against Wepner where he took even more horrific punishment after George busted him up inside. Your big on using videos and such, so all is revealed in his Playboy interview after winning the title bout and Foreman's 5 man exhibition in Canada where Ali near went into catatonic apoplexy screaming at George he wasn't ever gonna get a rematch.

I suspect Young came from an impoverished family half busted up as poor families end up and turned to boxing. After hard knocks, he did the heroes' work up the food chain to further expose Ali was like the Emperor with no clothes. Yeah, George looked bad against Young, but Young looked even worse, but credit for catching the rampaging George coming in for the KD. Did George ever get the eliminator offer to fight Norton like Young did? Of course not, that's why he retired. He had his money and was doing well in his ministry devoted to rehabilitating wayward kids as George had been. Poor Young was devastated his disputed loss to Norton and fell into drugs.

What was Johnson doing at age 19 and up before he won the title? He was busy getting whooped and KOed as in really KOed and not that bogus TKO Zach Clayton put on him. George had Ali down for over 30 secs after that happened. Loose ropes, delayed fight, drugged and sold out by Sadler who groomed Ali's camp on the strategy to beat him.

At age 19 with next to nil ama experience George was knocking out savvy Olympic pros from Russia, Cuba, and Eastern Europe for a gold medal. His only mistake was waving a tiny American flag in his joy at that black power Mexico City Olympics that got him labeled as stooge for The Man in the eyes of black nationalist and college protesters. No wonder they wanted him out as he was always his own man. I'll take those credentials and George's vastly superior record to Johnson any day not to mention his substantial size and strength advantage.

And NO, Johnson was never top dog ever. He got a weak belt after Jeff retired. From the time of his only fight against the then moving up from lightweight Sam to the time he lost his belt to Willard, Sam fought, whooped, knocked out not only more fighters than Johnson in his entire career, but against more HOFers and a better record than in Johnson had in his career, just a slice of what Sam accomplished. Jeannette was doing the same which is why Johnson ducked em.

That's fine if you and your disreputes want to give the disreputable Johnson a spoiler's chance, but damn you look stupid with all your errors and inability to understand timelines and context.

Posted: **13 Apr 2018, 14:32**

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: ↑13 Apr 2018, 12:25 - Kally dear, it goes without saying that discretion is the better part of valor, and you and your like minded ilk's greatest flaws are the maniacal overexposure of your collective boxing expertise ignorance.

I'm not going to waste a lot of time on your nonsensical garbage... You make up your own History of Boxing...

You make up excuses for Foreman"s losses. You do your best to trash Jack Johnson's reign with lies and BS. You don't even realize that Roy Jones dried out for the Ruiz weigh-in, which was his pre-fight ritual that he didn't want to change... Roy weighed a lot more into the ring than he did for the weigh-in... They weighed Roy pre-fight as well...

And you also don't seem to know Roy added more weight and strength after the Ruiz Fight---because he was setting up a Heavyweight Title Unification Fight with Corrie Sanders... That fight fell by the wayside when the WBO stripped Sanders for fighting Roy Jones... Jones decided that cuz it was no longer a Title Unification Fight he wouldn't do it.

As for your comment "George looked bad against Young, but Young looked even worse" Most pundits said Young fought a brilliant fight for a kid with a weak amateur background and a 20-5-2 pro record... He pinked Foreman with the jab... outsmarted him with sharp counters... decked George... and nearly finished him off.. Not bad for a feather hitter.

Jack Johnson was refused a fight with Jeffries while Jeff was Champion because white folks didn't want a black Heavyweight Champion... Johnson had to chase Tommy Burns halfway around the world to get a World Title Fight... finally he found somebody to put up 30,000 dollars, which is what Burns demanded, and a fortune for that period...

Burns defended the Title very well before meeting Johnson... Burns' toughest challengers couldn't threaten him... But Johnson dominated Burns with such ease and mastery that Jack London wrote.., "THE FIGHT? THERE WAS NO FIGHT"

Of course you don't want to hear that, because it doesn't fit your biased narrative

...

If anything Johnson was even more dominant in trashing and knocking out the undefeated Jim Jeffries.

Posted: **13 Apr 2018, 16:03**

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑09 Apr 2018, 21:02 Some of the information you just offered up is fact......but wasn't Jeffries just a bit out of practice by that time?

Never mind....and yes he was.

Keep in mind, it's always good to remember to include information which is significant when addressing a large audience of curious minds. Otherwise hungry minds will get confused, and as a result may become disoriented by the lack of facts being offered up. It could even make those who know no better become suspicious of you, and accuse you of "spinning" facts to serve some sort of clandestine purpose. Or perhaps imagine that you are obfuscating in public.

Your not ....."Up to anything" in this case are you?

Wait a minute, timeout Buzz. Are you implying that beating Jeffries (who had not fought in almost 6 years, was 35 years old and had recently lost 100 pounds) was somehow not a proof that Johnson would beat Foreman?
If the boxrec database shows that Jeffries weighed 227 pounds, that is all we need to know.

Posted: **13 Apr 2018, 17:17**

I don't know about Y'all,but George Foreman always kind of reminded me of Jack Johnson for some reason.
(both from Texas and both bald-headed)
Except Johnson was a defensive fighter and George Foreman a mainly offensive fighter.
I would pick Jack Johnson to win tho.(laughing and joking with him the entire fight)

Posted: **13 Apr 2018, 19:00**

Absolutely!!!! .... The 2nd incarnation of Foreman would do better... But Johnson would beat both versions.

He was a master of masters.

Posted: **14 Apr 2018, 13:16**

golden oldie wrote: ↑14 Apr 2018, 13:12
Kalan wrote: ↑13 Apr 2018, 14:32
You make up excuses for Foreman"s losses. You do your best to trash Jack Johnson's reign with lies and BS. You don't even realize that Roy Jones dried out for the Ruiz weigh-in, which was his pre-fight ritual that he didn't want to change... Roy weighed a lot more into the ring than he did for the weigh-in... They weighed Roy pre-fight as well...

BULLSH'IT.

There is an English guy on these boards, comes from Sheffield I believe ( can't remember his user name ) who possibly knows more about Jones Jr, than his own trainer, so obsessed is he with the guy. He states Jones was in fact 197 in the ring against Ruiz. Jones only dried out for his L / Heavy fights, and was almost ALWAYS 185 plus for those fights. so at best he only increased his muscle weight 10 lbs in the 6 months between Woods and Ruiz. It would be beyond stupid to dry out for a Heavyweight fight, when you don't need to, due to being only 5'11, and normally a Light Heavy.

The same guy further states there were " talks " between Jones, and Lewis, Holy, plus Tyson after he won the WBA title from Ruiz. No mention of Sanders at all. This would make plenty of sense, as the last thing Jones would need was a fast handed southpaw,, who weighed 225, and could hit as hard as Sanders.

WTF does Roy Jones have to do with it? And yes, why would anyone coming up to HW cut weight? I'm so confused!

Posted: **14 Apr 2018, 13:39**

golden oldie wrote: ↑14 Apr 2018, 13:28
oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Apr 2018, 13:16

WTF does Roy Jones have to do with it?

Absolutely NOTHING other than 2 of your countrymen, both with ego's bigger than the Grand Canyon, but unfortunately brains that come nowhere near it, like to go off in tangents when they are trying to score points off each other.

And yes, why would anyone coming up to HW cut weight? I'm so confused!
They wouldn't, which only goes to prove the stupidity of at least one of the aforementioned protagonists.
Alrighty then...thanks for "clearing" that up! LOL!

Posted: **14 Apr 2018, 14:45**

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Apr 2018, 13:16
golden oldie wrote: ↑14 Apr 2018, 13:12
Kalan wrote: ↑13 Apr 2018, 14:32
You make up excuses for Foreman"s losses. You do your best to trash Jack Johnson's reign with lies and BS. You don't even realize that Roy Jones dried out for the Ruiz weigh-in, which was his pre-fight ritual that he didn't want to change... Roy weighed a lot more into the ring than he did for the weigh-in... They weighed Roy pre-fight as well...

BULLSH'IT.

There is an English guy on these boards, comes from Sheffield I believe ( can't remember his user name ) who possibly knows more about Jones Jr, than his own trainer, so obsessed is he with the guy. He states Jones was in fact 197 in the ring against Ruiz. Jones only dried out for his L / Heavy fights, and was almost ALWAYS 185 plus for those fights. so at best he only increased his muscle weight 10 lbs in the 6 months between Woods and Ruiz. It would be beyond stupid to dry out for a Heavyweight fight, when you don't need to, due to being only 5'11, and normally a Light Heavy.

The same guy further states there were " talks " between Jones, and Lewis, Holy, plus Tyson after he won the WBA title from Ruiz. No mention of Sanders at all. This would make plenty of sense, as the last thing Jones would need was a fast handed southpaw,, who weighed 225, and could hit as hard as Sanders.
WTF does Roy Jones have to do with it? And yes, why would anyone coming up to HW cut weight? I'm so confused!

Your body has gone through the same pre-fight rituals for many, many years... You've cut weight for 50 straight fights... You're not going to radically change you're routines just because you're suddenly a Heavyweight... You're still going to cut a little weight the week of the fight and get your body down fine enough so you're feeling super solid, sharp, speedy, explosive, and springy instead of fat and sluggish... And the 30 hours before the fight you're still going to add the liquids and fuel you need to sustain you for 12 brutally hard, fast paced rounds ... if it ever comes to that.

Posted: **16 Apr 2018, 01:39**

That's why you lean out the final week before the fight you stupid jackass... You cut fat and come in as fine as possible to increase your speed, bounce, and sharpness... Why did Roy weigh more into the ring than for the weigh-in?

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