Ward vs Froch

[Horse]

I agree with all of that. Froch beat Kessler the second time around but that wasn't the same Kessler that beat Froch in the first fight. Kessler was still useful certainly but not quite the fighter he was. When Calzaghe fought Kessler it was close for the first four or five rounds then Joe pulled away. How anyone can dispute the outcome of that fight I really don't know.

Hopkins is a crafty, clever, awkward sod, always was and still is. He would have to be shot to lose to Froch who is too one dimensional for Hopkins.

Calzaghe was far too quick for Froch. Froch would do as he always does, come forward at the one pace and Calzaghe would just box his head off with fast combinations. Froch doesn't have a thing to trouble Calzaghe. Definitely a level between them.

You are very dismissive of Froch's abilities. Most people think far more of him than you do.

[Ian1973]

I agree with all of that. Froch beat Kessler the second time around but that wasn't the same Kessler that beat Froch in the first fight. Kessler was still useful certainly but not quite the fighter he was. When Calzaghe fought Kessler it was close for the first four or five rounds then Joe pulled away. How anyone can dispute the outcome of that fight I really don't know.

Hopkins is a crafty, clever, awkward sod, always was and still is. He would have to be shot to lose to Froch who is too one dimensional for Hopkins.

Calzaghe was far too quick for Froch. Froch would do as he always does, come forward at the one pace and Calzaghe would just box his head off with fast combinations. Froch doesn't have a thing to trouble Calzaghe. Definitely a level between them.

You are very dismissive of Froch's abilities. Most people think far more of him than you do.

Froch is a hard, hard man but he's not a good enough boxer to beat the likes of Calzaghe, Ward or Hopkins. Just that level below. ...................................... IMO.

[Horse]

Froch is a hard, hard man but he's not a good enough boxer to beat the likes of Calzaghe, Ward or Hopkins. Just that level below. ...................................... IMO.

I'd favour Calzaghe to beat him, but I highly doubt that Calzaghe would win every round.

Calzaghe didn't whitewash Bika or various other fighters far inferior to Froch. I don't think Calzaghe was as good as you think he was.

[expe]

I agree with all of that. Froch beat Kessler the second time around but that wasn't the same Kessler that beat Froch in the first fight. Kessler was still useful certainly but not quite the fighter he was. When Calzaghe fought Kessler it was close for the first four or five rounds then Joe pulled away. How anyone can dispute the outcome of that fight I really don't know.

Hopkins is a crafty, clever, awkward sod, always was and still is. He would have to be shot to lose to Froch who is too one dimensional for Hopkins.

Calzaghe was far too quick for Froch. Froch would do as he always does, come forward at the one pace and Calzaghe would just box his head off with fast combinations. Froch doesn't have a thing to trouble Calzaghe. Definitely a level between them.

I rate Calzaghe as much as you do but I think you underrate Froch. The best Froch (Pascal/AA/Bute) could win a couple of rounds Vs Joe and make the fight interesting. If Froch landed clean on Joe, he's doing more damage then when Joe lands clean on Froch.

A more interesting debate, however, is Calzaghe V Ward!

It's just a horrible fight style wise for Froch, his biggest advantages in most fights are his strength, fitness, workrate and chin, Calzaghe can match those, with a higher workrate, his chin was solid, maybe not quite as good as Froch's but he had a better defence, then there's the huge gap in hand and foot speed between them and the difference in ability. Froch might win one or two rounds at best, but I can't really see the fight being competitive.

[CtrlAltDefeat]

I agree with all of that. Froch beat Kessler the second time around but that wasn't the same Kessler that beat Froch in the first fight. Kessler was still useful certainly but not quite the fighter he was. When Calzaghe fought Kessler it was close for the first four or five rounds then Joe pulled away. How anyone can dispute the outcome of that fight I really don't know.

Hopkins is a crafty, clever, awkward sod, always was and still is. He would have to be shot to lose to Froch who is too one dimensional for Hopkins.

Calzaghe was far too quick for Froch. Froch would do as he always does, come forward at the one pace and Calzaghe would just box his head off with fast combinations. Froch doesn't have a thing to trouble Calzaghe. Definitely a level between them.

I rate Calzaghe as much as you do but I think you underrate Froch. The best Froch (Pascal/AA/Bute) could win a couple of rounds Vs Joe and make the fight interesting. If Froch landed clean on Joe, he's doing more damage then when Joe lands clean on Froch.

A more interesting debate, however, is Calzaghe V Ward!

It's just a horrible fight style wise for Froch, his biggest advantages in most fights are his strength, fitness, workrate and chin, Calzaghe can match those, with a higher workrate, his chin was solid, maybe not quite as good as Froch's but he had a better defence, then there's the huge gap in hand and foot speed between them and the difference in ability. Froch might win one or two rounds at best, but I can't really see the fight being competitive.

That explains why froch was chasing the fight and calzaghe vacating

[SNG]

Good point, as chasing a fighter means you're better than him doesn't it? As thought by Amir 'best in the world cause Mayweather won't fight him' Khan.

[expe]

I rate Calzaghe as much as you do but I think you underrate Froch. The best Froch (Pascal/AA/Bute) could win a couple of rounds Vs Joe and make the fight interesting. If Froch landed clean on Joe, he's doing more damage then when Joe lands clean on Froch.

A more interesting debate, however, is Calzaghe V Ward!

It's just a horrible fight style wise for Froch, his biggest advantages in most fights are his strength, fitness, workrate and chin, Calzaghe can match those, with a higher workrate, his chin was solid, maybe not quite as good as Froch's but he had a better defence, then there's the huge gap in hand and foot speed between them and the difference in ability. Froch might win one or two rounds at best, but I can't really see the fight being competitive.

That explains why froch was chasing the fight and calzaghe vacating

So DeGale will beat Froch then?

Froch himself admitted he wouldn't beat Calzaghe on points and being realistic, he's not going to knock him out either.

[Counter-puncher]

That explains why froch was chasing the fight and calzaghe vacating

are you Gomez's retarded cousin?

[jamesmcdonnell]

I agree with all of that. Froch beat Kessler the second time around but that wasn't the same Kessler that beat Froch in the first fight. Kessler was still useful certainly but not quite the fighter he was. When Calzaghe fought Kessler it was close for the first four or five rounds then Joe pulled away. How anyone can dispute the outcome of that fight I really don't know.

Hopkins is a crafty, clever, awkward sod, always was and still is. He would have to be shot to lose to Froch who is too one dimensional for Hopkins.

Calzaghe was far too quick for Froch. Froch would do as he always does, come forward at the one pace and Calzaghe would just box his head off with fast combinations. Froch doesn't have a thing to trouble Calzaghe. Definitely a level between them.[/quote]

I rate Calzaghe as much as you do but I think you underrate Froch. The best Froch (Pascal/AA/Bute) could win a couple of rounds Vs Joe and make the fight interesting. If Froch landed clean on Joe, he's doing more damage then when Joe lands clean on Froch.

A more interesting debate, however, is Calzaghe V Ward![/quote]


I don't think Calzaghe v Froch would've ended early. I don't think either had the one punch power to stop the other. Similarly Calzaghe v Ward. That would have been one hell of a fight. I think a lot would depend on how Calzaghe approached the fight. Calzaghe was the type who would adjust in-fight if he needed to like against kessler but against Ward he'd have to get his game plan right from the first bell. There is no way he's be able to give away rounds to Andre Ward.[/quote]

Froch has sufficient power to knock out calzaghe
And it wouldn't have to be with a single punch..wth[/quote]

Hmm, not sure I agree here - Calzaghe had tremendous powers of recovery, and was also extremely spiteful when hurt. I don't see Froch being able to stop Calzaghe, bigger punchers tried and failed.

I'm a huge Froch fan, he's my favourite active fighter today I would say - but I don't see him beating Calzaghe - Calzaghe was fast, mobile, heavy handed (in his earlier career particularly) slicker than he appeared, was tough, and had an incredible engine. We will never know how good Lacy might have been, and it's possible he was overrated, but the way Joe toyed with him was unreal, he made him look like a club fighter that night, and totally ripped him to shreds, I don't think anyone other than a prime RJJ or Toney would have made Lacy look so ordinary.

The version of Kessler that Calzaghe - himself past his best by that stage - and plagued by injury, was quite a bit tougher than the version Carl beat in their 2nd fight - Kessler by this stage was very injury prone.

I actually think a prime Kessler was the better fighter than Froch, but Froch's career overall is more impressive.

As I say, I love Froch, but I'm realistic about his level.

Calzaghe v Ward - now you're talking, I've got to say Joe's workrate would have been a big problem for Ward, as Joe was cute enough to land. We possibly have not yet seen the best of Ward, - hard to say with his inactivity, he might have peaked already, or he may go on to true greatness, but neither man, win or lose would have had an easy win over the other.

[Boxerbeetle]

Blimey, Calzaghe vs Froch again

I thought we'd reached a clear consensus on this: Calzaghe was the better boxer, Froch has the better resume, Calzaghe would win a wide points decision if they fought.

Did I miss anything out?

[Counter-puncher]

[jamesmcdonnell]

Calzaghe was far too quick for Froch. Froch would do as he always does, come forward at the one pace and Calzaghe would just box his head off with fast combinations. Froch doesn't have a thing to trouble Calzaghe. Definitely a level between them.[/quote]

I rate Calzaghe as much as you do but I think you underrate Froch. The best Froch (Pascal/AA/Bute) could win a couple of rounds Vs Joe and make the fight interesting. If Froch landed clean on Joe, he's doing more damage then when Joe lands clean on Froch.

A more interesting debate, however, is Calzaghe V Ward![/quote]
It's just a horrible fight style wise for Froch, his biggest advantages in most fights are his strength, fitness, workrate and chin, Calzaghe can match those, with a higher workrate, his chin was solid, maybe not quite as good as Froch's but he had a better defence, then there's the huge gap in hand and foot speed between them and the difference in ability. Froch might win one or two rounds at best, but I can't really see the fight being competitive.[/quote]

That explains why froch was chasing the fight and calzaghe vacating [/quote]

Calzaghe was already past his best, and plagued with Injuries by that point - he was looking for his last couple of massive paydays - you cannot possibly be serious if you think this is indicative of their levels.

Even most people who dislike Calzaghe, would admit he was one hell of a fighter - his career I'd say is not as good as Froch's, and that's mainly Joe's own fault, as he was a real hometown boy, who didn't want to risk his career on the road for most of his career - however, in terms of ability, he was on another level to Froch skills wise, and was a very tough man to boot.

Anyone else remember that massive shot he took from Byron Mitchell, which he got straight back up from, and then just tore into Mitchell.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Blimey, Calzaghe vs Froch again

I thought we'd reached a clear consensus on this: Calzaghe was the better boxer, Froch has the better resume, Calzaghe would win a wide points decision if they fought.

Did I miss anything out?

This sums it up for me. Of course it's possible Froch could have knocked him out - but probable - not really.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I can't recall anyone claiming that Kessler deserved to win the fight.

Stujones had it a draw.

Obviously the vast majority gave it to Calzaghe, but not everyone.

I scored it a draw, I had a lot of even rounds, because in many rounds virtually nothing happened of note.

Hopkins landed most of the few clean blows in the fight. Calzaghe threw more, but most were ineffectual.

It was a godawful fight - one of the worst world title fights I've seen.

[Horse]

It was a godawful fight - one of the worst world title fights I've seen.

I thought it was better than most, simply because it was very competitive.

Something one-sided like Rigondeaux vs Agbeko is far worse for me.

[lefthook82]

Froch says

The reason that Andre Ward is never chucked in the mix [for his next fight] is because the American TV broadcasters aren't really excited about him," Froch told Sky Sports News. "He's going through a big promotional dispute at the minute.

"He's a very, very good fighter and he beat me fair and square, he outpointed me. But he's messy, he's up close, he's awkward. He really is a bit of a spoiler. He's not somebody I'd be excited about getting in the ring with.

Read more at http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/sport/stor ... 82XXPbE.99

But then says

Also, a lot went wrong for me in that Super Six final. I was looking forward to appearing in Madison Square Garden but it was moved to Atlantic City .Out on the shore in the cold of mid-winter. Disappointing. The date was pushed back so I had to hang around in America a lot longer than planned. It ended up a week before Christmas and my mind was on getting home to the family instead of the fight.

‘It’ll be very different in the English summer.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing ... ottingham-
----

Utter utter pudendum

He can beat ward but I bet roc nation's pockets are deeper than eddie's

[Horse]

Utter utter pudendum

Who is?

[lefthook82]

Utter utter pudendum

Who is?

Froch

If he believes he can beat him fine. That's his right. But don't say you lost fair and square in one place and then give excuses in another. It is sad

[Horse]

Froch

If he believes he can beat him fine. That's his right. But don't say you lost fair and square in one place and then give excuses in another. It is sad

Big deal.

[lefthook82]

Fair enough Horse.

[danamba7]

Utter utter pudendum

Who is?

Froch

If he believes he can beat him fine. That's his right. But don't say you lost fair and square in one place and then give excuses in another. It is sad

You can admit you lost fair and square but also give reasons / excuses why you yourself weren't at your best....

[expe]

Who is?

Froch

If he believes he can beat him fine. That's his right. But don't say you lost fair and square in one place and then give excuses in another. It is sad

You can admit you lost fair and square but also give reasons / excuses why you yourself weren't at your best....

If you're going to make excuses, they need to be decent ones, not that it was cold and he missed his family.

[danamba7]

You can admit you lost fair and square but also give reasons / excuses why you yourself weren't at your best....

If you're going to make excuses, they need to be decent ones, not that it was cold and he missed his family.

Most top boxers have egos and come out with poor excuses after losses. Doesn't make them "Utter utter pudendum's"

[expe]

You can admit you lost fair and square but also give reasons / excuses why you yourself weren't at your best....

If you're going to make excuses, they need to be decent ones, not that it was cold and he missed his family.

Most top boxers have egos and come out with poor excuses after losses. Doesn't make them "Utter utter pudendum's"

Froch is a pudendum whether he's won or lost, maybe he's different in person, but he comes across as a complete wanker.

[palooka]

He seems a prickly character but I imagine he's sound with people he knows/friends/family. He doesn't seem to be concerned about making friends/coming across as a normal, likeable bloke and let's be honest, most high level athletes are not 'normal'.