BoxRec

palooka wrote:

evrenb wrote:Not in the league of the aforementioned greats but I always found stevie Johnston very skillful.

In the same vein, I always enjoyed watching Harold Brazier - he was in a lower league than the greats but was clever and skilled.

Idisagree wrote:Prime Camacho was very skillful. Speed, footwork, some pop, defense, ring generalship. He was the complete package at one point. Too bad his life style prevented him from really doing more.

I see someone keeps mentioning Eusebio Pedroza? He was good but he would not be at the top of any list when it comes to skillful. He was just just dirty as hell and he was crafty but skillful? Not saying he didn't have skills but he shouldn't be mentioned among the greatest most skillful. Hell, skill for skill I would say even prime Ivan Calderon had more skills that Pedroza.

Others to me where Duran, Whitaker, Sugar Ray Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Burley, Pep, Charles, Lopez, Benitez, Floyd, Benny Leonard, Ross, and the many others.

elmersalsa wrote:

Idisagree wrote:Prime Camacho was very skillful. Speed, footwork, some pop, defense, ring generalship. He was the complete package at one point. Too bad his life style prevented him from really doing more.

I see someone keeps mentioning Eusebio Pedroza? He was good but he would not be at the top of any list when it comes to skillful. He was just just dirty as hell and he was crafty but skillful? Not saying he didn't have skills but he shouldn't be mentioned among the greatest most skillful. Hell, skill for skill I would say even prime Ivan Calderon had more skills that Pedroza.

Others to me where Duran, Whitaker, Sugar Ray Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Burley, Pep, Charles, Lopez, Benitez, Floyd, Benny Leonard, Ross, and the many others.

The great Eusebio Pedroza was more complete than the great Sugar Ray Robinson.

One of the most complete boxers of my lifetime

Idisagree wrote:Hell, skill for skill I would say even prime Ivan Calderon had more skills that Pedroza.

man wrote:SRL comes first to mind. he had such an arsenal of
tactics to choose from. this rare talent of moving
like a dancer while having real pep in his punch. i
do not like how he mocked other great fighters, but
the skills were all his. he makes boxing look so terribly
easy. you see a leonard fight you want to try it yourself.

Syntax Error wrote:

man wrote:SRL comes first to mind. he had such an arsenal of
tactics to choose from. this rare talent of moving
like a dancer while having real pep in his punch. i
do not like how he mocked other great fighters, but
the skills were all his. he makes boxing look so terribly
easy. you see a leonard fight you want to try it yourself.

This is spot on.

Peak SRL had no weaknesses & could do everything.

It's a shame his career was so truncated because we missed a lot of prime Leonard, as he would have engaged in some truly mega contests in 1983, '84, '85 & '86 had he stayed active & not taken to cocaine.

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:Sugar Ray Robinson could knock you out going backward's he'll do me

elmersalsa wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

man wrote:SRL comes first to mind. he had such an arsenal of
tactics to choose from. this rare talent of moving
like a dancer while having real pep in his punch. i
do not like how he mocked other great fighters, but
the skills were all his. he makes boxing look so terribly
easy. you see a leonard fight you want to try it yourself.

This is spot on.

Peak SRL had no weaknesses & could do everything.

It's a shame his career was so truncated because we missed a lot of prime Leonard, as he would have engaged in some truly mega contests in 1983, '84, '85 & '86 had he stayed active & not taken to cocaine.

Try the great Roberto Duran

keithmoonhangover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:
This is spot on.

Peak SRL had no weaknesses & could do everything.

It's a shame his career was so truncated because we missed a lot of prime Leonard, as he would have engaged in some truly mega contests in 1983, '84, '85 & '86 had he stayed active & not taken to cocaine.

Try the great Roberto Duran

Leonard had more skills than Duran. Faster hands, faster feet and more will to win.

elmersalsa wrote:you gotta be kidding me. What a joke that was.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:you gotta be kidding me. What a joke that was.

Nope. Leonard's will to win is beyond reproach. Let me ask you two questions, which I know you haven't got the guts to answer.

1. Did Leonard ever quit in a fight?
2. Did Duran ever quit in a fight?

elmersalsa wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:you gotta be kidding me. What a joke that was.

Nope. Leonard's will to win is beyond reproach. Let me ask you two questions, which I know you haven't got the guts to answer.

1. Did Leonard ever quit in a fight?
2. Did Duran ever quit in a fight?

1. No
2.Yes


I ask now, what's the point? One fight doesn't make a fighter.

I ask you this, and let's see if you got the guts to answer
1. Did Duran beat his wife like Leonard?
2. Did Leonard beat his wife?

Answer me. What that got to do with skills?

Syntax Error wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:
Nope. Leonard's will to win is beyond reproach. Let me ask you two questions, which I know you haven't got the guts to answer.

1. Did Leonard ever quit in a fight?
2. Did Duran ever quit in a fight?

1. No
2.Yes


I ask now, what's the point? One fight doesn't make a fighter.

I ask you this, and let's see if you got the guts to answer
1. Did Duran beat his wife like Leonard?
2. Did Leonard beat his wife?

Answer me. What that got to do with skills?

Don't forget the Pat Lawlor fight.

elmersalsa wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:
1. No
2.Yes


I ask now, what's the point? One fight doesn't make a fighter.

I ask you this, and let's see if you got the guts to answer
1. Did Duran beat his wife like Leonard?
2. Did Leonard beat his wife?

Answer me. What that got to do with skills?

Don't forget the Pat Lawlor fight.

The out of prime Duran that was Supposed to be way retired by then Syntax Error? Really? Give me a break! What that has to do with skills?

Syntax Error wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:
Don't forget the Pat Lawlor fight.

The out of prime Duran that was Supposed to be way retired by then Syntax Error? Really? Give me a break! What that has to do with skills?

I'm not talking about skills, I am talking about quitting in fights (which this thread seems to have veered off into), something Duran did more than once.

elmersalsa wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:
The out of prime Duran that was Supposed to be way retired by then Syntax Error? Really? Give me a break! What that has to do with skills?

I'm not talking about skills, I am talking about quitting in fights (which this thread seems to have veered off into), something Duran did more than once.

So that makes him a quitter out of 121 pro fights? Really?

Seamus wrote:Should be an easy question. Not about who accomplished the most or could have, or who was the biggest puncher, most durable, fastest,fittest. etc. Just a simple, who had the greatest ring skills in the history of the sport ?

Scypion wrote:

DaveyMac wrote:SRL

Not sure that I agree about SRL as far as skill. SRL had 40 fights. I don't think that he compares in skill with greats like Charles, Moore, Pep, and Robinson, who had well over 100 fights. What Leonard had was speed and talent. When he started losing some of his speed, he started having trouble in some fights. I believe that SRL saw the handwriting on the wall when he lost to Norris at 34, and then retired (at least until the Camacho fight).

Roberto Duran fought until he was 50, and his skill carried him in some of his fights even though he was far past his prime. He gave a 34 year old Camacho a good fight even though he was 45 at the time. Some even thought he won including none other than Sugar Ray Leonard (which led up to his fight with Camacho).

JMO, but I thought what made SRL so good was his speed and talent. I would go along with Crease's list and have SRL as top 5 all time in the welterweight division.