BoxRec

Lackeos wrote:Has anyone tried comparing Joshua's first 12 opponents to Wilder's first 12 opponents yet?

Something about not being able to divide by 0

Bobbyptsd wrote:

Lackeos wrote:Has anyone tried comparing Joshua's first 12 opponents to Wilder's first 12 opponents yet?

Something about not being able to divide by 0

lol

fergusg wrote:
Put it this way, I already established that Tyson had competed in 28 fights and captured the WBC heavyweight crown within 626 days after his first pro bout.

Within roughly the same timeframe, AJ’s best win would have come against Kevin Johnson (a man that has tasted defeat in four of his last five contests and has only scored one sole victory in almost three years).

Yet you insist on drawing a comparing of the first twelve fights of Joshua and Tyson as your basis for how "quickly" AJ's career has progressed, which seems to be a rather pointless exercise. It seems impossible to deny that Mike Tyson achieved far more than Anthony Joshua has done within the equivalent time period, regardless as to whoever these two men fought against during their first 12 fights.

What you forgetting is Tyson handlers wanted him to be the youngest HW champion in history so fought him regularly to propel him up the rankings as quick as they could, remember Tyson was 18 when he turned pro and champ by the age of 20. There isn't that rush for AJ, plus he has spent several months out injured too.

Controversial wrote:Give the guy a break. For one he is fighting a world class operator in 3 weeks time, do you really expect them to chuck him in against someone too dangerous? Whatever you think of Love he had 47 fights under his belt and even managed to take Shannon Briggs 12 rounds last year. AJ is showing tremendous power and a great jab, I just hope he can go all the way.

World Class operator? Come on now

cocka09 wrote:

Controversial wrote:Give the guy a break. For one he is fighting a world class operator in 3 weeks time, do you really expect them to chuck him in against someone too dangerous? Whatever you think of Love he had 47 fights under his belt and even managed to take Shannon Briggs 12 rounds last year. AJ is showing tremendous power and a great jab, I just hope he can go all the way.

World Class operator? Come on now

Haha oops my bad, sorry I confused Johnson with Tony Thompson. Someone even posted a photo of Johnson and I thought he looked really different to how I remembered him looking, thats because I was thinking of someone else

Johnson a step up for AJ and durable but AJ should easily win, I would rather AJ fought Thompson as he would be tougher.

People sure do love whining, don't they?

For those of you who are impressed that Joshua will tangle with a former world title challenger in Kevin Johnson, please be aware that oddsmakers don't share your support.

They've pegged Joshua a "somewhat" heavy 100-1 choice. In other words, he's expected to provide about as much competition as Love did.

Johnson has lost 4 out of his past 5 fights, and it figures that his feat of never having been stopped will quickly come to an end May 30.

It's another setup, but lets not bitch about it. That's what boxing is all about.

I don't get what Joshua is supposed to be "learning" from these fights that he can't learn from sparring. Putting him up against fat washed up chumps isn't a "learning experience" it's just a low-risk payday.

If all these guys with 0s on their records (Fury, Wilder, Glazkov, Teper, Ruiz, Browne, Parker, Joshua, etc.) would start fighting each other, the HW division would be a much more interesting place. The traditional "fight 20 chumps before taking on anyone halfway decent" management style is one of the reasons why (IMO) MMA is eating boxing's lunch.

Juji I agree, but it is just what happens in boxing. TV companies make it big thing about the '0'. TV companies flog the fight based on the two highest rankings they can find. What you need to remember is that 99% of people don't understand the real situation, they can con 99%. Even people in this thread that are doubting AJs opposition are not understanding how it works. Anthony Joshua needs to be marketed and that done with him fighting regularly and winning impressively. He might not learn much from a Zambrano Love, but he has fought decent fighters in his last five. Matt Skelton was his 7th, Sprotty is still not bad and a top 40 gatekeeper, Baktov is another. kingpin will be a decent name. I suspect we will see him in against fighters like Dennis Boystov, Steve Cunningham, Anthony Thompson shortly.

Personally I think its only Wlad, Wilder and Fury who give him a fight. I am fairly sure he will beat Povetkin. In the interim, its very hard to find 70-30 fights for him.

But that's the whole problem with the HW division. Nobody wants to take a risk and make an exciting fight. How many remotely decent HW fights are on the BoxRec schedule right now? I can't think of a single one beside Povetkin/Perez, and that is the #2 guy versus a borderline top 10 guy. Good fight but not exactly a blockbuster.

I thought Joshua was stepping it up when he fought Bakhtov but now he's back on the bum of the month tour. I don't see how any fan can be pleased by this.

jujigatame wrote:But that's the whole problem with the HW division. Nobody wants to take a risk and make an exciting fight. How many remotely decent HW fights are on the BoxRec schedule right now? I can't think of a single one beside Povetkin/Perez, and that is the #2 guy versus a borderline top 10 guy. Good fight but not exactly a blockbuster.

I thought Joshua was stepping it up when he fought Bakhtov but now he's back on the bum of the month tour. I don't see how any fan can be pleased by this.

HW div is poor but Super-middle light heavy and Cruiser are also bad. Most competitive is the baby weights but i guess there are less fighters. If you go to my website you can see the pre-fight ranking of all 1700 boxers (top 100 in each division) it will confirm what you think.

BTW. I just noticed Dennis Boystov is unlikely to fight again, looks like he was attacked.

Saturday night felt like Bullying. He is clearly stepping up next against Kingpin and hopefully we won't see him fighting such opponents anymore.

jujigatame wrote:I don't get what Joshua is supposed to be "learning" from these fights that he can't learn from sparring. Putting him up against fat washed up chumps isn't a "learning experience" it's just a low-risk payday.

If all these guys with 0s on their records (Fury, Wilder, Glazkov, Teper, Ruiz, Browne, Parker, Joshua, etc.) would start fighting each other, the HW division would be a much more interesting place. The traditional "fight 20 chumps before taking on anyone halfway decent" management style is one of the reasons why (IMO) MMA is eating boxing's lunch.

Joshua fighting Johnson at this stage is better than Wilder, a so-called champ, fighting Eric Molina. True, Wilder has been criticised for that, but proportionally Joshua is getting more heat.

To address Jujigatame's point, If I was Joshua's handler I would be confident putting him in with just about anyone at this stage, and I'm sure calls have been made from their side. The question is, what sort of attitude will those fellow unbeaten guys have towards facing Joshua? I imagine they don't want any of him right now.

It sort of begs the question how soon could the vast majority of "good" fighters realistically win a world title. What if Tyson fought Berbick after 10 fights could he have still won. Quite possibly. After 5 fights?.

Did Tyson get significantly better after his debut when he fought Berbick, considering 19 of his fights before he fought Berbick were over in 2 rounds or less. Yes he had a good few rounds against Tills, Green, Ribalta and Ferguson but ultimately he only needed 2 to knock Berbick out so in theory he could've beat Berbick far sooner.

How about Joshua vs Wilder?

Even after Norton and Foreman were established fighters, they still fought the likes of Rico Brooks and Jody Ballard.

And like I said he is fighting Kingpin. Would you guys be happier if the Love fight didn't exist and he didn't fight anyone until the Johnson fight?

Don't get me wrong, I hate it when a HW lingers in La La Land forever like David Rodriguez or Travis Kauffman. But Joshua is NOT doing that. He is moving up. If someone fought a guy ranked #485, weeks before fighting a contender I'm fine with that.

A realistic good open after Johnson would be the Russian guy Hughie Fury and Lucas Browne just beat.

He pushed Browne very close and looks as hard as nails. He has never been dropped or stopped and is 24-2 with a decent amatuer career.

Eddie Hearn talks about Tony Thompson or David Price after Johnson but that is just waffle and would be hugely risky after fighting guys like Zumbano Love.

Rudenko would be a good choice IMO.

Controversial wrote:It sort of begs the question how soon could the vast majority of "good" fighters realistically win a world title. What if Tyson fought Berbick after 10 fights could he have still won. Quite possibly. After 5 fights?.

Did Tyson get significantly better after his debut when he fought Berbick, considering 19 of his fights before he fought Berbick were over in 2 rounds or less. Yes he had a good few rounds against Tills, Green, Ribalta and Ferguson but ultimately he only needed 2 to knock Berbick out so in theory he could've beat Berbick far sooner.

A ha.....thats confidence. . fighters build their confidence

evrenb wrote:

Controversial wrote:It sort of begs the question how soon could the vast majority of "good" fighters realistically win a world title. What if Tyson fought Berbick after 10 fights could he have still won. Quite possibly. After 5 fights?.

Did Tyson get significantly better after his debut when he fought Berbick, considering 19 of his fights before he fought Berbick were over in 2 rounds or less. Yes he had a good few rounds against Tills, Green, Ribalta and Ferguson but ultimately he only needed 2 to knock Berbick out so in theory he could've beat Berbick far sooner.

A ha.....thats confidence. . fighters build their confidence

Yes I agree but some are fighters are naturally more confident than others. You could argue that flattening 30 journeymen who have no real chance of beating you creates a false sense of confidence and could make you think you are better than you really are.

Controversial wrote:

evrenb wrote:

Controversial wrote:It sort of begs the question how soon could the vast majority of "good" fighters realistically win a world title. What if Tyson fought Berbick after 10 fights could he have still won. Quite possibly. After 5 fights?.

Did Tyson get significantly better after his debut when he fought Berbick, considering 19 of his fights before he fought Berbick were over in 2 rounds or less. Yes he had a good few rounds against Tills, Green, Ribalta and Ferguson but ultimately he only needed 2 to knock Berbick out so in theory he could've beat Berbick far sooner.

A ha.....thats confidence. . fighters build their confidence

Yes I agree but some are fighters are naturally more confident than others. You could argue that flattening 30 journeymen who have no real chance of beating you creates a false sense of confidence and could make you think you are better than you really are.

Yes true. Tyson himself admitted that he had the beating of Holmes at 15 but didnt have the confidence. (in his opinion) Boxing is 95% mental someone said.

evrenb wrote: Yes true. Tyson himself admitted that he had the beating of Holmes at 15 but didnt have the confidence. (in his opinion) Boxing is 95% mental someone said.

Oh yes definitely a confidence game, one defeat can ruin some fighters and they are never the same again. It can be a delicate balancing act matching fighters.