BoxRec

crusader wrote:

big lennox wrote:
I think we will have to disagree on this point. When I saw Bute's head being knocked about, Froch looked a hard puncher to me. When I saw Groves getting stretched out, Froch looked a very hard puncher to me.Both fighters were in the top 10. Kessler got put over by a light heavyweight (who starved himself to compete in the super six series) and it was more of as flash knockdown -Kessler looked embarrassed more than anything.

If Froch didn't punch very hard then, with his open style, people would just walk straight through him, but they never do. There must be a reason for that.

Read more closely.

I never said Froch doesn't punch hard--I suggested that he doesn't very hard, as in exceptionally hard. To me someone with that type of power would've put Bute down and wouldn't need to wear down and outlast opponents like Froch did against Taylor and Groves. People don't walk through him because he's got solid power and hits them back, whether with a good jab or something else.

I refer to him as heavy handed but not a concussive puncher. If he hits bang on the button full pelt he can Ko people but usually he just beats them up.

A great matchup. Who needs titles when you have Britain's most battle tested, vs a top 10 "pound for pound" entrant? A tremendous, aggressive matchup as well.

It's what you'd call the hard-core fan's wet dream - but factors make it a potential reality. Such a ggg pulling in outstanding ratings on hbo, often vs 2nd tier opposition or undersized middleweight names. Such as ggg's nice numbers, the Ko% or# of title defences and the Olympic medal. Imagine what the promoters will do with all this, vs froch, coming off spectacular rivalries with Kessler and groves, also a proven stadium draw?

As to the fight,froch can really cause problems especially with golovkin testing the 168 waters, in that uncertain time where the extra weight might drag him down if the fight goes longer than he's accustomed to going. Golovkin has been around a long time - stuck with universum early on- and is desperate for a big fight and do we think he's going to wait out cotto-geale and then mAybe cotto-Alvarez, another year wasted? He could well do what sergio Martinez did, moving up for Paul Williams. This could be just as good a non title, big fight. But it'll make more money.

I go for the froch win, size, weight, experience and home advantages. He will have to box with alertness and awkwardness, like groves 2. He'll have to push the smaller man back - at the right time.e, like Abraham. He'll have to go through some tough moments, as we know he can. While golovkin is finding his feet at 168, froch can take the famous victory. But he'll have to weather some brutal punches and he'll have to be careful to protect the body because golovkin can break a thin man in half.

Autobarn wrote:A great matchup. Who needs titles when you have Britain's most battle tested, vs a top 10 "pound for pound" entrant? A tremendous, aggressive matchup as well.

It's what you'd call the hard-core fan's wet dream - but factors make it a potential reality. Such a ggg pulling in outstanding ratings on hbo, often vs 2nd tier opposition or undersized middleweight names. Such as ggg's nice numbers, the Ko% or# of title defences and the Olympic medal. Imagine what the promoters will do with all this, vs froch, coming off spectacular rivalries with Kessler and groves, also a proven stadium draw?

As to the fight,froch can really cause problems especially with golovkin testing the 168 waters, in that uncertain time where the extra weight might drag him down if the fight goes longer than he's accustomed to going. Golovkin has been around a long time - stuck with universum early on- and is desperate for a big fight and do we think he's going to wait out cotto-geale and then mAybe cotto-Alvarez, another year wasted? He could well do what sergio Martinez did, moving up for Paul Williams. This could be just as good a non title, big fight. But it'll make more money.

I go for the froch win, size, weight, experience and home advantages. He will have to box with alertness and awkwardness, like groves 2. He'll have to push the smaller man back - at the right time.e, like Abraham. He'll have to go through some tough moments, as we know he can. While golovkin is finding his feet at 168, froch can take the famous victory. But he'll have to weather some brutal punches and he'll have to be careful to protect the body because golovkin can break a thin man in half.

I think I literally agree with every single word of this. Have you been reading my mind?

I think Froch could catch him at the precise moment when he's not accustomed enough to 168 to be able to deal with the psychological and physical factors it presents. As you say, Froch has the tools, he can box when he chooses to, he can brawl and tough it out when he needs to, and he can apply aggressive pressure when required.

Don't see an easy win for Froch, but perhaps a close but comfortable one with some hairy moments.

I really really hope this fight gets made, It would really make up for how much Mayweather v Pacquaio sucks.

Mayweather may be the greater fighter of the two, but I've much more enjoyed Froch's career - if it was technical excellence alone I enjoyed, I'd watch figure skating, or fencing - I do expect to actually see something resembling a fight occasionally, and really I've not seen Mayweather in anything resembling a fight or administered a beatdown on anyone since, well, Hatton I guess.

People criticise wlad, but Wlad does eventually unleash the big shots and beat his opponents up once he's totally demoralised them, whereas Mayweather is content to pick and poke for 12 whole rounds.

The day Froch retires will be a sad one, he's probably my favourite British fighter ever to be honest, what a career the man has had, and what performances he's pulled out of the bag too.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Autobarn wrote:A great matchup. Who needs titles when you have Britain's most battle tested, vs a top 10 "pound for pound" entrant? A tremendous, aggressive matchup as well.

It's what you'd call the hard-core fan's wet dream - but factors make it a potential reality. Such a ggg pulling in outstanding ratings on hbo, often vs 2nd tier opposition or undersized middleweight names. Such as ggg's nice numbers, the Ko% or# of title defences and the Olympic medal. Imagine what the promoters will do with all this, vs froch, coming off spectacular rivalries with Kessler and groves, also a proven stadium draw?

As to the fight,froch can really cause problems especially with golovkin testing the 168 waters, in that uncertain time where the extra weight might drag him down if the fight goes longer than he's accustomed to going. Golovkin has been around a long time - stuck with universum early on- and is desperate for a big fight and do we think he's going to wait out cotto-geale and then mAybe cotto-Alvarez, another year wasted? He could well do what sergio Martinez did, moving up for Paul Williams. This could be just as good a non title, big fight. But it'll make more money.

I go for the froch win, size, weight, experience and home advantages. He will have to box with alertness and awkwardness, like groves 2. He'll have to push the smaller man back - at the right time.e, like Abraham. He'll have to go through some tough moments, as we know he can. While golovkin is finding his feet at 168, froch can take the famous victory. But he'll have to weather some brutal punches and he'll have to be careful to protect the body because golovkin can break a thin man in half.

I think I literally agree with every single word of this. Have you been reading my mind?

I think Froch could catch him at the precise moment when he's not accustomed enough to 168 to be able to deal with the psychological and physical factors it presents. As you say, Froch has the tools, he can box when he chooses to, he can brawl and tough it out when he needs to, and he can apply aggressive pressure when required.

Don't see an easy win for Froch, but perhaps a close but comfortable one with some hairy moments.

I really really hope this fight gets made, It would really make up for how much Mayweather v Pacquaio sucks.

Mayweather may be the greater fighter of the two, but I've much more enjoyed Froch's career - if it was technical excellence alone I enjoyed, I'd watch figure skating, or fencing - I do expect to actually see something resembling a fight occasionally, and really I've not seen Mayweather in anything resembling a fight or administered a beatdown on anyone since, well, Hatton I guess.

People criticise wlad, but Wlad does eventually unleash the big shots and beat his opponents up once he's totally demoralised them, whereas Mayweather is content to pick and poke for 12 whole rounds.

The day Froch retires will be a sad one, he's probably my favourite British fighter ever to be honest, what a career the man has had, and what performances he's pulled out of the bag too.

Same, well said.

yup, said before, a lot of people will realise how much they miss him only when he is gone

another fight that comes to mind is the first morales-pacquiao, where morales had been established at 130 for a few major battles and caught pacman coming up in weight. Morales, the upright guy with awkwardness and willpower who gets stuck in and always rallies back. Pac, the force of nature, more compact, struggled the first time and was backed up on several occasions by a sharp and alert morales who knew he couldn't get this one wrong. But obviously the Filipino was able to build on his late fight breakthrough in their subsequent battles.

I could see froch winning a fight with golovkin but may pick him to lose a rematch based upon any damage sustained in the first fight and with golovkin perhaps improving after a hard lesson and gaining momentum. Not that there's a chance of their being a 2nd fight. If froch pulls through like I think, he'll have had enough of golovkin (perhaps like Lewis did with vitality).


After maypac (which I refused to support and haven't seen) at least there is a greater awareness of Boxing so now is the time to make the best offensive or most exciting matchups: froch v ggg, kovalev v Stevenson, lomachenko v Walters, throw in cotto-Alvarez - both usually leave me wanting more but north of junior middleweight (just!) and against each other should bring out their best - and also brook v Khan.

Agreed on those late KOs not being lucky, froch-Taylor, toney-Nunn. Overcoming slow starts vs more mobile opponents, capitalizing on mid or late fight breakthroughs with late stoppages is a legitimate way of winning - and presents the sport great drama. Which Carl froch has provided plenty of. Watched the Pascal fight again, the one that kicked it all off - savage! Even the shots Pascal landed while being backed up were hurtful. For froch to still be exchanging power shots, in world class - his fitness and desire are remarkable.

Autobarn wrote:another fight that comes to mind is the first morales-pacquiao, where morales had been established at 130 for a few major battles and caught pacman coming up in weight. Morales, the upright guy with awkwardness and willpower who gets stuck in and always rallies back. Pac, the force of nature, more compact, struggled the first time and was backed up on several occasions by a sharp and alert morales who knew he couldn't get this one wrong. But obviously the Filipino was able to build on his late fight breakthrough in their subsequent battles.

I could see froch winning a fight with golovkin but may pick him to lose a rematch based upon any damage sustained in the first fight and with golovkin perhaps improving after a hard lesson and gaining momentum. Not that there's a chance of their being a 2nd fight. If froch pulls through like I think, he'll have had enough of golovkin (perhaps like Lewis did with vitality).


After maypac (which I refused to support and haven't seen) at least there is a greater awareness of Boxing so now is the time to make the best offensive or most exciting matchups: froch v ggg, kovalev v Stevenson, lomachenko v Walters, throw in cotto-Alvarez - both usually leave me wanting more but north of junior middleweight (just!) and against each other should bring out their best - and also brook v Khan.

Agreed on those late KOs not being lucky, froch-Taylor, toney-Nunn. Overcoming slow starts vs more mobile opponents, capitalizing on mid or late fight breakthroughs with late stoppages is a legitimate way of winning - and presents the sport great drama. Which Carl froch has provided plenty of. Watched the Pascal fight again, the one that kicked it all off - savage! Even the shots Pascal landed while being backed up were hurtful. For froch to still be exchanging power shots, in world class - his fitness and desire are remarkable.

Yes, and let's not forget that Toney was landing shots on Nunn throughout, chipping away to the body to try and slow him down just enough to....

Froch only won because he kept on looking for his openings, and kept the pressure on right until the last - people forget, Taylor was able to do enough to beat Hopkins on points twice, perhaps slightly controversially, but that was the Hopkins of 10 years ago, it's not like Taylor was a shabby boxer - but was he the better fighter - unfortunately not for him.

Toney-Nunn to me is a classic. From the middle rounds toney was landing power shots. He definitely built toward that ko. The further the fight went the better his punches were - and the slower Nunn became. He was far behind but he broke his man down. That left hook did not come out of nowhere, like some will have it.

That was a fight - like mccallum 1 and later, jirov - where he put everything into it. He truly was exhausted afterward.

Took froch a while to find his feet but recall him having good moments in 10 and 11 - a hook had Taylor hanging on; and he was getting closer with the right hand - which built momentum and helped find a home for the right which began that big onslaught of froch's.

Recall Taylor being froch's mandatory, Taylor not wanting the fight and froch having to travel for his top contender. He really wanted to raise his profile vs a topname and did it in a spectacular fight, dropped, taking flush head shots all night - and coming from behind to mount one of the most furious stoppage causing attacks seen in recent times.

2 great fights.

Wondering if froch's focus has shifted to degale for a British superfight to reclaim his title.

Think ggg sees froch as the quickest route to a ppv fight but his team have reported that froch's representatives are no longer responding . Won't be easy for ggg getting cotto or Alvarez in the ring. And if he does there could be weight stipulation.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'd watch figure skating

Mate, I love figure skating. It calls for much of the same courage and athleticism as boxing (there's little harder physically), but its expression of character doesn't involve punching people in the face. So that's good.

If I could be half my age again and super-talented at one sport, that's the one I'd choose. MotoGP rider or 400m sprinter for my second choice. Boxing's something that most elites fall into because they've an affinity with the agency it gives them; to be freed from the oppression of poverty on your own terms. I love what boxing demands from its students, not so much what it is.

And what boxing really needs right now is this fight.

I don't think this is going to happen unfortunately now. In a way you can't blame Froch. He's made millions and has nothing really to prove to anyone and has young kids and a settled family life. I'm not sure many people would want a piece of GGG in a fight that would be an absolute war either. Would love to see it though.

I seem to be in the minority, but I think Froch would do an absolute number of GGG. He is way too small for Froch who would push him about and break him in half with bodyshots.

big lennox wrote:I seem to be in the minority, but I think Froch would do an absolute number of GGG. He is way too small for Froch who would push him about and break him in half with bodyshots.

I'm of a similar opinion. I find it hilarious how some think GGG destroys Froch at 168 based on destroying Rubio, Geale, Macklin etc at 160

big lennox wrote:I seem to be in the minority, but I think Froch would do an absolute number of GGG. He is way too small for Froch who would push him about and break him in half with bodyshots.

I'm not sure the size difference in this fight would be as decisive a factor as you think. Everybody he has fought comments on how strong Golovkin is when coming forward and how difficult it is to keep him off. Even the likes of Kovalev and Mike Perez have said that he punches like a heavyweight and is as strong as an ox in sparring. I think Froch would be getting cracked with huge shots on a regular basis in this one by a technically better fighter and a harder puncher who also has a great chin. He'd have it all to do I think.

SteveDow wrote:

big lennox wrote:I seem to be in the minority, but I think Froch would do an absolute number of GGG. He is way too small for Froch who would push him about and break him in half with bodyshots.

I'm not sure the size difference in this fight would be as decisive a factor as you think. Everybody he has fought comments on how strong Golovkin is when coming forward and how difficult it is to keep him off. Even the likes of Kovalev and Mike Perez have said that he punches like a heavyweight and is as strong as an ox in sparring. I think Froch would be getting cracked with huge shots on a regular basis in this one by a technically better fighter and a harder puncher who also has a great chin. He'd have it all to do I think.

Sparring is sparring, though and not the same thing as a real fight. Perez and Kovalev are also great chums of Golovkin, so are going to be very kind. He is unquestionably the best middleweight in the world, which is not the same thing as being the best Super-Middleweight in the world.

Everyone can be hurt by bodyshots and, the smaller the body, the more painful it is going to be. Golovkin has not boxed anyone even remotely in the same class as Froch. If I was Golovkin, I would stay at middleweight and clean up. Equally, I wouldn't expect Mayweather to step out of his weight class and box Golovkin. Froch would blow all of Golovkin's opponents away as well.

big lennox wrote:

SteveDow wrote:

big lennox wrote:I seem to be in the minority, but I think Froch would do an absolute number of GGG. He is way too small for Froch who would push him about and break him in half with bodyshots.

I'm not sure the size difference in this fight would be as decisive a factor as you think. Everybody he has fought comments on how strong Golovkin is when coming forward and how difficult it is to keep him off. Even the likes of Kovalev and Mike Perez have said that he punches like a heavyweight and is as strong as an ox in sparring. I think Froch would be getting cracked with huge shots on a regular basis in this one by a technically better fighter and a harder puncher who also has a great chin. He'd have it all to do I think.

Sparring is sparring, though and not the same thing as a real fight. Perez and Kovalev are also great chums of Golovkin, so are going to be very kind. He is unquestionably the best middleweight in the world, which is not the same thing as being the best Super-Middleweight in the world.

Everyone can be hurt by bodyshots and, the smaller the body, the more painful it is going to be. Golovkin has not boxed anyone even remotely in the same class as Froch. If I was Golovkin, I would stay at middleweight and clean up. Equally, I wouldn't expect Mayweather to step out of his weight class and box Golovkin. Froch would blow all of Golovkin's opponents away as well.

Fully agree.

One thing I dont understand is why Eddie is not pushing for this vigorously. Big money fight for him and he seem to drug his feet.

[/quote]

Fully agree.[/quote]

Indeed - I don't for a single second believe he 'punches like a heavyweight' - if he did, he would have obliterated everyone at 160 with the first meaningful shot he hit them with

There's zero proof Golovkin hits harder than Froch - as he's not been in with a genuine 168 lber yet. His punches may well have far less impact, unless he moves up and takes his power with him, which is certainly not a given.

Abraham, whilst not technically as good as GGG, was an absolute monster at 160, but was nowhere near as devastating against bigger men at 168.

Tarkus wrote:One thing I dont understand is why Eddie is not pushing for this vigorously. Big money fight for him and he seem to drug his feet.

Maybe because DeGale has won a title now - that's my guess.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Fully agree.[/quote]

Indeed - I don't for a single second believe he 'punches like a heavyweight' - if he did, he would have obliterated everyone at 160 with the first meaningful shot he hit them with

There's zero proof Golovkin hits harder than Froch - as he's not been in with a genuine 168 lber yet. His punches may well have far less impact, unless he moves up and takes his power with him, which is certainly not a given.

Abraham, whilst not technically as good as GGG, was an absolute monster at 160, but was nowhere near as devastating against bigger men at 168.[/quote]

Either way he presents a formidable challenge for Froch. If Froch thought this was an easy night's work why the hell not just take the fight as he'd enhance his reputation and legacy hugely by beating what most boxing fans think is a monster whilst at the same time making an absolute shedload of money. Seems a no brainer. Fighting Degale as the last fight would not gain him half the credit and would not make the same money either in my view. The reason he's wary of Golovkin is because he knows he could get torn to pieces and that would then damage his legacy.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Tarkus wrote:One thing I dont understand is why Eddie is not pushing for this vigorously. Big money fight for him and he seem to drug his feet.

Maybe because DeGale has won a title now - that's my guess.

He seem to favor Froch retiring for some time now and I cant quite explain why. I am too cynical about the wold of boxing to accept that he is doing that only because he has Frochs best interest at heart as he says.

Abraham is also a poor comparison in my view. Abraham does not have anything like the subtle variety of punches GGG has or the ability to cut off the ring like GGG has.

SteveDow wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Fully agree.

Indeed - I don't for a single second believe he 'punches like a heavyweight' - if he did, he would have obliterated everyone at 160 with the first meaningful shot he hit them with

There's zero proof Golovkin hits harder than Froch - as he's not been in with a genuine 168 lber yet. His punches may well have far less impact, unless he moves up and takes his power with him, which is certainly not a given.

Abraham, whilst not technically as good as GGG, was an absolute monster at 160, but was nowhere near as devastating against bigger men at 168.[/quote]

Either way he presents a formidable challenge for Froch. If Froch thought this was an easy night's work why the hell not just take the fight as he'd enhance his reputation and legacy hugely by beating what most boxing fans think is a monster whilst at the same time making an absolute shedload of money. Seems a no brainer. Fighting Degale as the last fight would not gain him half the credit and would not make the same money either in my view. The reason he's wary of Golovkin is because he knows he could get torn to pieces and that would then damage his legacy.[/quote]

I am sure Froch knows the risks involved - perhaps he's not prepared to take the potential risk to his health during his last fight after a long career - he's a wealthy man now, with little to prove, I for one don't blame him if he turns the fight down.

SteveDow wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Fully agree.

Indeed - I don't for a single second believe he 'punches like a heavyweight' - if he did, he would have obliterated everyone at 160 with the first meaningful shot he hit them with

There's zero proof Golovkin hits harder than Froch - as he's not been in with a genuine 168 lber yet. His punches may well have far less impact, unless he moves up and takes his power with him, which is certainly not a given.

Abraham, whilst not technically as good as GGG, was an absolute monster at 160, but was nowhere near as devastating against bigger men at 168.[/quote]

Either way he presents a formidable challenge for Froch. If Froch thought this was an easy night's work why the hell not just take the fight as he'd enhance his reputation and legacy hugely by beating what most boxing fans think is a monster whilst at the same time making an absolute shedload of money. Seems a no brainer. Fighting Degale as the last fight would not gain him half the credit and would not make the same money either in my view. The reason he's wary of Golovkin is because he knows he could get torn to pieces and that would then damage his legacy.[/quote]

I am sure Froch knows the risks involved - perhaps he's not prepared to take the potential risk to his health during his last fight after a long career - he's a wealthy man now, with little to prove, I for one don't blame him if he turns the fight down.

Guys, the quoting on this thread is a complete shambles