Page 4 of 11
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 10:06
by elmersalsa
Counter-puncher wrote:orbtastic wrote:There's a lengthy piece about Duran in Sports Illustrated after he lost to Benitez where they all but wrote his career off. Ironic one of boxing's more notorious non-trainers actually training for a fight (and winning).
http://www.si.com/vault/1982/02/08/5647 ... redemption
.
see my post above, mate. I think that fight showed that on style grounds, Benitez would have caused Duran problems at any weight or any time.
I'd be interested in the thoughts of any poster not named elmo, on that one....
The fight was @ 154lbs. A weight class too big for The Hands of Stone. Put both @ 147 lbs in Montreal and is a different story
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 10:08
by Counter-puncher
yes, we know elmo, a win against Duran isn't, ever, really a win. thanks.
any more contributions from posters not named elmo?
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 10:11
by elmersalsa
Counter-puncher wrote:elmersalsa wrote:
I CANNOT IMAGINE a featherweight or a jr. Lightweight taking Duran's crown.
your imagination needs to try picturing Henry Armstrong
A one dimensional fighter like the great Henry Armstrong, cannot beat a complete fighter like the great Roberto Duran. I doubt if Armstrong beats the great Sugar Ray Leonard.
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 10:15
by Counter-puncher
elmersalsa wrote:Counter-puncher wrote:elmersalsa wrote:
I CANNOT IMAGINE a featherweight or a jr. Lightweight taking Duran's crown.
your imagination needs to try picturing Henry Armstrong
A one dimensional fighter like the great Henry Armstrong, cannot beat a complete fighter like the great Roberto Duran. I doubt if Armstrong beats the great Sugar Ray Leonard.
whatever, you're going on ignore
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 11:06
by Ambling Alp II
Counter-puncher wrote:Ambling Alp II wrote:huh? Was alcohol involved when making your post?
Hi, alp, you have much more patience with Elmo than I could manage. The thread has thrown up a few interesting questions, though, which I will put forward for your consideration
Featherweights who could come up to 135 and beat Duran? I would suggest that both Arguello and Sanchez would have a shot.... (is it out of the question that either man could take one fight out of 3 with Duran like Dejesus did? Though Arguello was proven above 126 in a way that Sanchez wasn't, as it happens I think Sanchez maybe had a better style to deal with Duran- quicker feet and hands, better head movement and counterpuncher, more compact puncher than Arguello)
Henry Armstrong certainly could go up to 135 from featherweight and beat Duran.
Any more?
Benitez 'only' beat an old/154lb Duran, and wouldn't manage the same at 147lbs. Again I would suggest Benitez has a shot, there; I think he would be less likely than the young and greenish Leonard to be mentally intimidated by Duran, and the fight he did have with Duran, irrespective of Durand being allegedly past it.by that point, I think that fight showed that Benitez' style matched pretty well with Durans. Out of the question that he could at least take one fight in three from Duran?
Also, alp, you mention slightly mockingly that Duran 'only' beat Leonard by 3pts or whatever. I have some sympathy with his position there. You know the phrase 'closer in the ring than on the cards'? That describes those scorecards for me: The early rounds Duran won, he won clearly and kicked leonards ass for him. The later rounds Leonard won, were much closer I m o, and were in any case won against a fighter who was coasting just a little, I m o.
Sorry that I didn't respond to this earlier.
I would also pick Armstrong over Duran. Arguello and Sanchez would have a shot.
There are a handful of others who would have a serious chance. Tony Canzoneri would have had a serious chance.
I would lean towards Benitez over Duran at 147 as well.
My patience with elmer? It depends on my mood.
He is totally full of BS, often doesn't comprehend the other peoples points.
Sometimes I ignore his nonsense, sometime I don't.
As for the him only having Duran by three points:
The fight is scored by points. He can doesn't have to give Duran the round 10-9 if he thought he dominated the round. I myself gave Duran the 2nd round 10-8.
A win by points over the course a 15 round fight is a close fight. It is far from a whupping. It's that simple.
There were several close rounds in this fight. Becasue Leonard stupidly fought Duran's fight inside way too much, it seems that Duran must be dominating right? Watch it closely. Take out the 2nd round, and Leonard actually hit Duran with more "clean punches". Many of the punches that Duran landed were glancing shots, and punches on the break.
Do you really think elmer gave Leonard any of the close rounds?
I have been asking elmer if he thinks winning by three points is close for several years (ever time he brings up a whupping or Duran kicking his etc.)
He never has had the balls to answer me.
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 11:10
by Counter-puncher
Ambling Alp II wrote:[ I myself gave Duran the 2nd round 10-8.
Do you really think elmer gave Leonard any of the close rounds?
there is certainly a case for the 10-8. he beat the dogpoo out of Leonard that round.
and:
Do you really think elmer gave Leonard any of the close rounds? . the very idea.
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 11:15
by keithmoonhangover
Prime Benny Leonard beats Prime Duran at Lightweight.
Hearns beats Duran at Welter.
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 11:41
by elmersalsa
keithmoonhangover wrote:Prime Benny Leonard beats Prime Duran at Lightweight.
Hearns beats Duran at Welter.
Those are great calls. I put my money on The Hands of Stone. IF he comes prepared like he did in his finest hour in Montreal, I won't doubt a victory by the Panamanian.
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 11:52
by keithmoonhangover
elmersalsa wrote:keithmoonhangover wrote:Prime Benny Leonard beats Prime Duran at Lightweight.
Hearns beats Duran at Welter.
Those are great calls. I put my money on The Hands of Stone. IF he comes prepared like he did in his finest hour in Montreal, I won't doubt a victory by the Panamanian.
Don't you not think Hearns is all wrong for Duran?
What about Sugar Ray Robinson against the Montreal Duran? How do you see that going?
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 11:56
by elmersalsa
keithmoonhangover wrote:elmersalsa wrote:keithmoonhangover wrote:Prime Benny Leonard beats Prime Duran at Lightweight.
Hearns beats Duran at Welter.
Those are great calls. I put my money on The Hands of Stone. IF he comes prepared like he did in his finest hour in Montreal, I won't doubt a victory by the Panamanian.
Don't you think Hearns is all wrong for Duran?
What about Sugar Ray Robinson against the Montreal Duran? How do you see that going?
Hearns beats Duran from 154lbs up. At 147lbs, it's all Roberto Duran!
I do not see Robinson beating Leonard nor Duran at their very best at 147lbs. I see SRR beating both of them from 154lbs up
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 12:09
by keithmoonhangover
elmersalsa wrote:keithmoonhangover wrote:elmersalsa wrote:
Those are great calls. I put my money on The Hands of Stone. IF he comes prepared like he did in his finest hour in Montreal, I won't doubt a victory by the Panamanian.
Don't you think Hearns is all wrong for Duran?
What about Sugar Ray Robinson against the Montreal Duran? How do you see that going?
Hearns beats Duran from 154lbs up. At 147lbs, it's all Roberto Duran!
I do not see Robinson beating Leonard nor Duran at their very best at 147lbs. I see SRR beating both of them from 154lbs up
At his best, do you think Duran beats any Lightweight and Welterweight ever?
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 12:17
by Counter-puncher
keithmoonhangover wrote:
At his best, do you think Duran beats any Lightweight and Welterweight ever?
jesus, man, you need to ask?
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 13:19
by Seamus
Henry Armstrong's victory over Barney Ross easily tops any win of Duran's career.
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 13:55
by elmersalsa
Seamus wrote:Henry Armstrong's victory over Barney Ross easily tops any win of Duran's career.
I agree. That is why I called the great Henry Armstrong as the greatest fighter of all time
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 14:04
by elmersalsa
keithmoonhangover wrote:
At his best, do you think Duran beats any Lightweight and Welterweight ever?
Can't you see? Did you see how he whupped the great Sugar Ray Leonard?
If nobody beats the great Muhammad Ali at heavyweight, in my mind, NOBODY BEATS that Manos de Piedra of that magnificent performance in that night in Montreal. I haven't seen nothing like it, ever.
The great Muhammad Ali is the greatest heavyweight of my lifetime.
The great Roberto Duran is the greatest fighter pound per pound IN MY LIFETIME
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 14:06
by keithmoonhangover
The greatest fighter pound per pound in your lifetime quits in the middle of a fight? Stop talking shite man.
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 14:31
by elmersalsa
keithmoonhangover wrote:The greatest fighter pound per pound in your lifetime quits in the middle of a fight? Stop talking shite man.
So what if he quit? He redeemed himself, didn't he?
From featherweight to welterweight, I don't see NOBODY beating him, nor had a better career in my lifetime. Duran was INCREDIBLE!
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 14:34
by keithmoonhangover
elmersalsa wrote:keithmoonhangover wrote:The greatest fighter pound per pound in your lifetime quits in the middle of a fight? Stop talking shite man.
So what if he quit? He redeemed himself, didn't he?
From featherweight to welterweight, I don't see NOBODY beating him, nor had a better career in my lifetime. Duran was INCREDIBLE!
He didn't redeem himself, he beat Iran Barkley, a guy Nigel Benn put away in a single round. To redeem himself, he would have to have beaten Leonard, which he couldn't do.
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 14:56
by elmersalsa
keithmoonhangover wrote:elmersalsa wrote:keithmoonhangover wrote:The greatest fighter pound per pound in your lifetime quits in the middle of a fight? Stop talking shite man.
So what if he quit? He redeemed himself, didn't he?
From featherweight to welterweight, I don't see NOBODY beating him, nor had a better career in my lifetime. Duran was INCREDIBLE!
He didn't redeem himself, he beat Iran Barkley, a guy Nigel Benn put away in a single round. To redeem himself, he would have to have beaten Leonard, which he couldn't do.
He had already beaten or may I say whupped Leonard, you didn't see it?
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 15:25
by keithmoonhangover
elmersalsa wrote:keithmoonhangover wrote:elmersalsa wrote:
So what if he quit? He redeemed himself, didn't he?
From featherweight to welterweight, I don't see NOBODY beating him, nor had a better career in my lifetime. Duran was INCREDIBLE!
He didn't redeem himself, he beat Iran Barkley, a guy Nigel Benn put away in a single round. To redeem himself, he would have to have beaten Leonard, which he couldn't do.
He had already beaten or may I say whupped Leonard, you didn't see it?
A whupping is a one sided beating, not a close fight. 5 months later, with Duran still in his prime, Leonard humiliated him and he quit. So he ballooned up between fights, BIG DEAL, Ricky Hatton did that and guess what, he didn't quit.
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 15:32
by elmersalsa
[quote="keithmoonhangove/
A whupping is a one sided beating, not a close fight. 5 months later, with Duran still in his prime, Leonard humiliated him and he quit. So he ballooned up between fights, BIG DEAL, Ricky Hatton did that and guess what, he didn't quit.[/quote]
Ask Ricky Hatton whose his idol is, definitely is not Leonard...It is the great Roberto Duran! A quitter, right?
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 15:47
by Ambling Alp II
Just who is Ricky Hatton's idol is absolutely critical to what we have been talking about. Everything hangs on this.
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 16:06
by keithmoonhangover
Ambling Alp II wrote:Just who is Ricky Hatton's idol is absolutely critical to what we have been talking about. Everything hangs on this.
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 16:14
by Counter-puncher
Ambling Alp II wrote:Just who is Ricky Hatton's idol is absolutely critical to what we have been talking about. Everything hangs on this.
Like a red wheelbarrow, so much depend on it
Re: Duran vs Leonard I: 35 Years Later, Duran's Finest Hour
Posted: 29 Jun 2015, 22:08
by Chuck1052
Roberto Duran was a lightweight during his prime. As a result, I thought Duran was slightly past his peak when he beat Sugar Ray Leonard.
- Chuck Johnston