Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated

[klompton]

Frazier sure did ! But Ali came back and won the series 2 out of 3

He didnt win shit. That second "fight" was the non performance of the decade. He came to cuddle not to fight. When it mattered Frazier was king.

[knockouts67]

For starters, in my view, my view only, the great Smokin' Joe LEFT IT ALL HE HAD IN THE FOTC @ MSG. That fight was BRUTAL. I don't know how Ali and Frazier withstand a huge deal of pounding. What kept them up? I don't know. Maybe it was the real hatred that they had for each other. I don't know what would be. When Ali got up from that left hook, tired in the final round, it was REMARKABLE. What made him get up? I really don't know. Another fighter would have said, "Forget about it, count until ten, ref".

Secondly, Frazier in Jamaica was an EASY TARGET. He didn't had the bob and weave speed. In the FOTC, Ali missed a whole lot of punches. Frazier was a DIFFICULT TARGET TO HIT.

I don't think that the great George Foreman would've stand THE TERRIFIC PACE AND THE RELENTLESS PRESSURE that Frazier put on him. Big George was not a great inside fighter. Once Frazier is inside, it's all Smokin' Joe. Foreman stamina in the 70s was another handicap. Would've he had the pace to fight like that? Remember, Ali was much faster and he missed. Now, Foreman?

You must be drinking! Frazier fought an Ali that had a couple fights in 4 years---Foreman knocks Fraizier out anytime!!

Frazier---spellcheck[/quote]

Frazier whipped that azz! That is all to it.[/quote]
There would have never been 3 fights if Ali was in His Prime (Liston etc) ----Ali by TKO 11----never brought up again---Frazier was only champ because of the Draft----He never saw the Great Ali-----Facts are Facts!

[klompton]

Whatever. Frazier was the best hw Ali ever fought, draft or no draft. Nevermind that the supposedly rusty Ali had been sparring regularly with the best hws in the world at Dundees gym and came out of retirement fresh enough to take out two of the best contenders he ever faced like nobody before or after him. Rusty my ass. He just met up with a junk yard dog that night and that version of Frazier gives any version of Ali hell and wins. The only way Ali ever beats Frazier is if he gets an inompetent ref that loves hug fests or if Frazier is shot.

*drops mic*

[elmersalsa]

Well said, klompton

[yancey]

Well said, klompton

Yep, he nailed it.

[keithmoonhangover]

Whatever. Frazier was the best hw Ali ever fought, draft or no draft. Nevermind that the supposedly rusty Ali had been sparring regularly with the best hws in the world at Dundees gym and came out of retirement fresh enough to take out two of the best contenders he ever faced like nobody before or after him. Rusty my ass. He just met up with a junk yard dog that night and that version of Frazier gives any version of Ali hell and wins. The only way Ali ever beats Frazier is if he gets an inompetent ref that loves hug fests or if Frazier is shot.

*drops mic*

Better than Foreman?

Better than Liston?

[elmersalsa]

Whatever. Frazier was the best hw Ali ever fought, draft or no draft. Nevermind that the supposedly rusty Ali had been sparring regularly with the best hws in the world at Dundees gym and came out of retirement fresh enough to take out two of the best contenders he ever faced like nobody before or after him. Rusty my ass. He just met up with a junk yard dog that night and that version of Frazier gives any version of Ali hell and wins. The only way Ali ever beats Frazier is if he gets an inompetent ref that loves hug fests or if Frazier is shot.

*drops mic*

Better than Foreman?

Better than Liston?

Yes, the great Smokin' Joe Frazier's performance win over the great Muhammad Ali, IS THE GREATEST BOXING PERFORMANCE EVER. TO ME, I HAVE NOT SEEN NOTHING LIKE IT ON FILM

[keithmoonhangover]

Yes, the great Smokin' Joe Frazier's performance win over the great Muhammad Ali, IS THE GREATEST BOXING PERFORMANCE EVER. TO ME, I HAVE NOT SEEN NOTHING LIKE IT ON FILM

I know, but your a complete nutter.

[elmersalsa]

Yes, the great Smokin' Joe Frazier's performance win over the great Muhammad Ali, IS THE GREATEST BOXING PERFORMANCE EVER. TO ME, I HAVE NOT SEEN NOTHING LIKE IT ON FILM

I know, but your a complete nutter.

See the FOTC again and you'll agree with me. You have already lost the conversation by calling people names. Be more educated.

[keithmoonhangover]

Yes, the great Smokin' Joe Frazier's performance win over the great Muhammad Ali, IS THE GREATEST BOXING PERFORMANCE EVER. TO ME, I HAVE NOT SEEN NOTHING LIKE IT ON FILM

I know, but your a complete nutter.

See the FOTC again and you'll agree with me. You have already lost the conversation by calling people names. Be more educated.

I am educated sir, I was just expressing my opinion. I also have an opinion that having a three year break from boxing and untold emotional problems, meant that Ali was not at his best when he fought Frazier. If you think he was, then you are delusional. Watch his footwork after the ban, look at his reflexes, look his hand speed. All of them were worse after the ban.

Frazier was at his best at the FOTC, Ali was not.

[yancey]

Strange that the Ali camp had no concerns about the "layoff" going into the FOTC.

It only became a major issue afterwards.

I wonder why.

[keithmoonhangover]

Strange that the Ali camp had no concerns about the "layoff" going into the FOTC.

It only became a major issue afterwards.

I wonder why.

Oh for god's sake. What kind of trainer, going into a major fight, would tell their fighter that he wasn't as good as he used to be? You're talking complete bollocks now.

[elmersalsa]

I am educated sir, I was just expressing my opinion. I also have an opinion that having a three year break from boxing and untold emotional problems, meant that Ali was not at his best when he fought Frazier. If you think he was, then you are delusional. Watch his footwork after the ban, look at his reflexes, look his hand speed. All of them were worse after the ban.

Frazier was at his best at the FOTC, Ali was not.

Well, I am not saying that the great Muhammad Ali was at his best, but wasn't far from his prime, either. What heavyweight contender then, would've beaten that Ali? Not too many. Ali fought a fantastic fight, but, got WHUPPED and that is all to it. Give the great Joe Frazier credit for winning this fight.

Some say that the layoff helped Ali. Some are saying it did not. Some were saying that he was in his prime. He was 29 at TFOC, right? Some say he wasn't. Still, Frazier whupped that behind.
The people demanded for the fight. The promoters wanted the fight to happen. Both were undefeated. It was the most anticipated fight of all time. No excuses. Smokin' Joe won.

The greatest performance ever.

[keithmoonhangover]

Well, I am not saying that the great Muhammad Ali was at his best.

So you're admitting Frazier didn't beat a prime Ali. Well said.

[palooka]

Well, I am not saying that the great Muhammad Ali was at his best.

So you're admitting Frazier didn't beat a prime Ali. Well said.

Whew! That was easy.

[magwitch]

Well, I am not saying that the great Muhammad Ali was at his best.

So you're admitting Frazier didn't beat a prime Ali. Well said.

Whew! That was easy.

I thought Ali lost that fight so he could free himself of Don King

[palooka]

The Twilight Zone.

[keithmoonhangover]

I thought Ali lost that fight so he could free himself of Don King

[Boxerbeetle]

Interesting thread.

What about Roy Jones Jr -v- James Toney?

Roy moved up & totally outclassed a prime Toney who is one of the greatest fighters of the last 25 years or so.

I can't think of another SMW that would have beaten Roy Jones Jr of that night.

At 168lbs, nobody beats Super Roy that night. Great call.

The Calzaghe that turned up for the Lacy fight would have the best chance imo. I wouldn't actually like to pick a winner in that one...

[klompton]

Whatever. Frazier was the best hw Ali ever fought, draft or no draft. Nevermind that the supposedly rusty Ali had been sparring regularly with the best hws in the world at Dundees gym and came out of retirement fresh enough to take out two of the best contenders he ever faced like nobody before or after him. Rusty my ass. He just met up with a junk yard dog that night and that version of Frazier gives any version of Ali hell and wins. The only way Ali ever beats Frazier is if he gets an inompetent ref that loves hug fests or if Frazier is shot.

*drops mic*

Better than Foreman?

Better than Liston?

Yes, no doubt about it.

Ali beat Liston and Foreman MUCH easier than he did Frazier in any of their fights and thats even with the incompetent reffing and a shot frazier. Liston and Foreman were punches but beyond that Im unimpressed with them, especially Foreman. He may have posed Frazier problems head to head but in terms of who was actually better,all around, all time, etc, its Frazier.

[keithmoonhangover]

Whatever. Frazier was the best hw Ali ever fought, draft or no draft. Nevermind that the supposedly rusty Ali had been sparring regularly with the best hws in the world at Dundees gym and came out of retirement fresh enough to take out two of the best contenders he ever faced like nobody before or after him. Rusty my ass. He just met up with a junk yard dog that night and that version of Frazier gives any version of Ali hell and wins. The only way Ali ever beats Frazier is if he gets an inompetent ref that loves hug fests or if Frazier is shot.

*drops mic*

Better than Foreman?

Better than Liston?

Yes, no doubt about it.

Ali beat Liston and Foreman MUCH easier than he did Frazier in any of their fights and thats even with the incompetent reffing and a shot frazier. Liston and Foreman were punches but beyond that Im unimpressed with them, especially Foreman. He may have posed Frazier problems head to head but in terms of who was actually better,all around, all time, etc, its Frazier.

How Ali handled fighters isn't an indication of how good they were. If that was the case, then what does Foreman's victories over Frazier mean?

[Syntax Error]

Interesting thread.

What about Roy Jones Jr -v- James Toney?

Roy moved up & totally outclassed a prime Toney who is one of the greatest fighters of the last 25 years or so.

I can't think of another SMW that would have beaten Roy Jones Jr of that night.

At 168lbs, nobody beats Super Roy that night. Great call.

The Calzaghe that turned up for the Lacy fight would have the best chance imo. I wouldn't actually like to pick a winner in that one...

Good call.

Calzaghe was inspired that night & it would have taken someone special to beat him.

[palooka]

The Wilfredo Gomez in either the Zarate or Lupe Pintor bouts would have taken some beating, I can't think of a super bantamweight who would have coped with the relentless attacks and power hitting from Gomez on those nights.

[keithmoonhangover]

Pre ban Ali is a close to unbeatable as I've seen.

[Counter-puncher]

The Wilfredo Gomez in either the Zarate or Lupe Pintor bouts would have taken some beating, I can't think of a super bantamweight who would have coped with the relentless attacks and power hitting from Gomez on those nights.

You mentioned him the other day yourself I think mate, I think a hypothetical 122lb Olivares would be too good for him; if you think about the success Pintor had against Gomez, and Pintor was a guy who never showed the ability against men at 122 that Olivares did at 126, I think Olivares would outbox and out-hit Gomez. Pintor seemed to have Gomez on the verge a few times, and Olivares was definitely a harder hitter than pintor and his equal in any other regard. If he can lead Arguello a merry dance- (different styles, I know) or even ktfo Chacon when past his peak at a higher weight- I think he's a better man than Gomez. Would be a great fight though.