BoxRec

Bobbyptsd wrote:"....the state of our sport"

Really? With the numbers some of those PBC cards did? And the fact that the biggest PPV fight of all time (in money terms) was just a few months ago?

I think some may be getting a bit carried away over this.

Finally an intelligent thought on this subject

Thanks, it happens occasionally, law of averages and all that.

Bobbyptsd wrote:"....the state of our sport"

Really? With the numbers some of those PBC cards did? And the fact that the biggest PPV fight of all time (in money terms) was just a few months ago?

I think some may be getting a bit carried away over this.

I didn't write the article and I don't think boxing is in any trouble.

But obviously some are concerned about the overall decline in PPV buys...and when the guy who is supposed to be one of the new kings of the ring has a debut which some are reporting as below 100K buys, where the best case scenario is it came up "only" 50K buys short of breaking even?

Yeah, I can understand a writer or two getting nervous.

koolkc107 wrote:

Someone explain how this didn't lose money.

Assuming it reaches 150K buys (and some doubt this BTW), they won't even gross enough to cover the purses.

GGG's bargaining position just took a head shot.

Not as disappointing as Floyd's PPVs. Watching Gonzo and G execute their offensive beauty was a huge treat. It was money well spent for me.

Impractical Poster wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:

Someone explain how this didn't lose money.

Assuming it reaches 150K buys (and some doubt this BTW), they won't even gross enough to cover the purses.

GGG's bargaining position just took a head shot.

Not as disappointing as Floyd's PPVs. Watching Gonzo and G execute their offensive beauty was a huge treat. It was money well spent for me.

I am certain Showtime is quite happy with how the 6 fight deal panned out.

And I am willing to bet HBO doesn't see anything remotely similar in Golovkin right now.

koolkc107 wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:

Someone explain how this didn't lose money.

Assuming it reaches 150K buys (and some doubt this BTW), they won't even gross enough to cover the purses.

GGG's bargaining position just took a head shot.

Not as disappointing as Floyd's PPVs. Watching Gonzo and G execute their offensive beauty was a huge treat. It was money well spent for me.

I am certain Showtime is quite happy with how the 6 fight deal panned out.

And I am willing to bet HBO doesn't see anything remotely similar in Golovkin right now.

I understand Floyd does unprecedented numbers. That is not up for debate. But, his fights lack any type of drama, bar the Ortiz debacle. He is excellent at what he does. He's an absurdly outstanding defensive wizard. But, it's not something I care to pay for. I got more for my money paying for last weekend's card than I have any of Floyd's. Getting to see Gonzo and G on the same card is going to end up historic. The casual fan just isn't aware of how special these two are at the moment.

Impractical Poster wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:

I am certain Showtime is quite happy with how the 6 fight deal panned out.

And I am willing to bet HBO doesn't see anything remotely similar in Golovkin right now.

I understand Floyd does unprecedented numbers. That is not up for debate. But, his fights lack any type of drama, bar the Ortiz debacle. He is excellent at what he does. He's an absurdly outstanding defensive wizard. But, it's not something I care to pay for. I got more for my money paying for last weekend's card than I have any of Floyd's. Getting to see Gonzo and G on the same card is going to end up historic. The casual fan just isn't aware of how special these two are at the moment.

I disagree about Floyd.

There is nothing like watching a master at work. And I get as much enjoyment watching a defensive genius as an offensive one.

You may have a point about the historic nature of the card though.

I am certain Chocolatito is one the verge of stardom. He is doing things the right way and only a fault in promotion will impede him.

Golovkin is a different story. He is being promoted well, hyped even.

There is only one explanation for what happened last week and that is poor matchmaking. That's what needs to get better.

koolkc107 wrote: I disagree about Floyd. There is nothing like watching a master at work.

There's nothing like watching you at work, Brut.

No, really... there's nothing like it. It's unique.

Ricky_ wrote:

koolkc107 wrote: I disagree about Floyd. There is nothing like watching a master at work.

There's nothing like watching you at work, Brut.

No, really... there's nothing like it. It's unique.

Well, it certainly isn't like having some imbecilic convince himself that you are someone else.

But I am going to stop here cuz I am still to busy laughing at "big, gay tree"...which would be one helluva name for a rock band BTW.

koolkc107 wrote:
There is only one explanation for what happened last week and that is poor matchmaking. That's what needs to get better.

Well, there certainly has been much worse PPV match making in the past few years.

Impractical Poster wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:
There is only one explanation for what happened last week and that is poor matchmaking. That's what needs to get better.

Well, there certainly has been much worse PPV match making in the past few years.

No argument from me there...but for a ppv debut?

No slight to Lemieux, who has seemed to turn his career around after a couple of disastrous outings, but he isn't the guy to try and get 3 to 5 hundred thousand buys with unless you are established.

Clearly HBO and Loeffler overestimated some.

Mayweather's PPV debut was against a severely over matched Arturo Gatti. A card which did roughly twice the buys as the GGG PPV. However, Mayweather was much more established in the boxing world than Golovkin is at this time, and he was fighting Gatti. G was virtually an unknown until his HBO debut 3 years ago. It may have been a tad early for PPV, but I'm not complaining. When he gets Canelo or Cotto, you're going to see some impressive PPV numbers. It wasn't until Floyd's 4th PPV bout with DLH that he did any real significant numbers. I expect G will do significant numbers in either his 2nd or 3rd PPV.

Impractical Poster wrote:Mayweather's PPV debut was against a severely over matched Arturo Gatti. A card which did roughly twice the buys as the GGG PPV. However, Mayweather was much more established in the boxing world than Golovkin is at this time, and he was fighting Gatti. G was virtually an unknown until his HBO debut 3 years ago. It may have been a tad early for PPV, but I'm not complaining. When he gets Canelo or Cotto, you're going to see some impressive PPV numbers. It wasn't until Floyd's 4th PPV bout with DLH that he did any real significant numbers. I expect G will do significant numbers in either his 2nd or 3rd PPV.

Decent take, even if I don't necessarily agree with it.

Even if we allow that Mayweather was "more established" then than Golovkin is now, there is a question about who was hyped more. I'd say Gennady holds that edge. Pretty sure Mayweather didn't have half the pub up to the Gatti fight that Golovkin has enjoyed and I know he didn't have an endorsement deal and commercial with apple.

The other extremely important aspect not being mentioned by those who want to compare Golovkin's PPV failure to Mayweather's debut is perhaps one of the most telling.

HBO is in 2.5 times more homes now than when Floyd and Arturo fought.

Golovkin had access to 122 million homes, Mayweather about 50 million.

Floyd did well over 2 times the business with only two fifths the audience.

I agree that Golovkin should do better his next outing...pretty hard to do worse. But, as long as he continues to fight second tier guys, he will never have the breakout numbers they are hoping him to get.

You could stack a sure fire, barnburner card full of competitive fights with all top 10, high action guys and champs on a PPV priced at $19.95.
You know what kind of PPV card would sh*t all over it?
A sh*tty one with a big name fighting.
Oscar Vs Tito (today) with 2 undercard fights between nothing but random Joe Toeheads would quadruple the sales of the above card, even at a full $59.99 price.

It's funny to me that people still equate PPV sales success with quality over famous name promotion.

GGG may never be a huge PPV star. It happens to great fighters all the time.

No no no. KFC shits on all michelin restaurants. Look at their sales. That's quality food.

koolkc107 wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:Mayweather's PPV debut was against a severely over matched Arturo Gatti. A card which did roughly twice the buys as the GGG PPV. However, Mayweather was much more established in the boxing world than Golovkin is at this time, and he was fighting Gatti. G was virtually an unknown until his HBO debut 3 years ago. It may have been a tad early for PPV, but I'm not complaining. When he gets Canelo or Cotto, you're going to see some impressive PPV numbers. It wasn't until Floyd's 4th PPV bout with DLH that he did any real significant numbers. I expect G will do significant numbers in either his 2nd or 3rd PPV.

Decent take, even if I don't necessarily agree with it.

Even if we allow that Mayweather was "more established" then than Golovkin is now, there is a question about who was hyped more. I'd say Gennady holds that edge. Pretty sure Mayweather didn't have half the pub up to the Gatti fight that Golovkin has enjoyed and I know he didn't have an endorsement deal and commercial with apple.

The other extremely important aspect not being mentioned by those who want to compare Golovkin's PPV failure to Mayweather's debut is perhaps one of the most telling.

HBO is in 2.5 times more homes now than when Floyd and Arturo fought.

Golovkin had access to 122 million homes, Mayweather about 50 million.

Floyd did well over 2 times the business with only two fifths the audience.

I agree that Golovkin should do better his next outing...pretty hard to do worse. But, as long as he continues to fight second tier guys, he will never have the breakout numbers they are hoping him to get.

HBO has about 30m subscribers, not 122m. But that's beside the point since anyone with basic cable can order HBO PPV, and the number of cable subscribers has been dropping steadily. Where did you pull all these garbage numbers from?

I've found kooli to significantly bend the truth and when he is confronted with the truth he goes quiet for a couple of days, golovkin has one big hurdle to jump that Floyd didn't have, being American

Impractical Poster wrote:Mayweather's PPV debut was against a severely over matched Arturo Gatti. A card which did roughly twice the buys as the GGG PPV. However, Mayweather was much more established in the boxing world than Golovkin is at this time, and he was fighting Gatti. G was virtually an unknown until his HBO debut 3 years ago. It may have been a tad early for PPV, but I'm not complaining. When he gets Canelo or Cotto, you're going to see some impressive PPV numbers. It wasn't until Floyd's 4th PPV bout with DLH that he did any real significant numbers. I expect G will do significant numbers in either his 2nd or 3rd PPV.

lets keep in mind you'll see impressive ppv numbers because of Canelo if that fight happens not because of GGG.

Also keep in mind that it's become alarmingly easy, and still getting easier each day even, to see any televised PPV event for free, in way too many places for it not to heavily decrease the earnings of every future PPV event, boxing or otherwise.

uptconnect wrote:Also keep in mind that it's become alarmingly easy, and still getting easier each day even, to see any televised PPV event for free, in way too many places for it not to heavily decrease the earnings of every future PPV event, boxing or otherwise.

I do not remember the last PPV I actually paid for.
I either stream it or go to a bar or a friends house.I know tons of people are the same way.

This fight should never been on PPV. I suspect it was an attempt by HBO to get fans to start thinking of GGG as a PPV attraction whose fights won't be free anymore, but this PPV itself was never going to be a big seller. GGG hasn't been built up particularly well as his opponents have largely been fringe contenders, and Lemieux himself was a minor beltholder who had 1 relevant win over another fringe contender, which was not even televised in the US. Aside from an additional paper title being involved this wasn't any bigger of a fight than GGG/Geale.

People forget that, without an established superstar like Oscar/Floyd/Manny involved, PPVs generally do not sell well.

jujigatame wrote:Aside from an additional paper title being involved this wasn't any bigger of a fight than GGG/Geale.

That is bullsh1t. Lemieux would give very hard time to any other MW: Quillin, Lee, Cotto, Canelo and would beat at least some if not all of them. The problem was not in Lemieux quality as a fighter, but him being barely known in the U.S. Kazakhstani fighting Canadian with insufficient promotion. Of course, it couldn't hit higher numbers.

jujigatame wrote:This fight should never been on PPV. I suspect it was an attempt by HBO to get fans to start thinking of GGG as a PPV attraction whose fights won't be free anymore, but this PPV itself was never going to be a big seller. GGG hasn't been built up particularly well as his opponents have largely been fringe contenders, and Lemieux himself was a minor beltholder who had 1 relevant win over another fringe contender, which was not even televised in the US. Aside from an additional paper title being involved this wasn't any bigger of a fight than GGG/Geale.

People forget that, without an established superstar like Oscar/Floyd/Manny involved, PPVs generally do not sell well.

I totally agree. This is the whole point, they want people to get used to paying to see GGG, it wasn't about the numbers for this fight per se.

They will do MUCH bigger numbers if he fights either Cotto or Canelo - as they will hype the hell out of it, and both men already have sizeable followings.

After that, if GGG is still unbeaten, he will most likely be a star in his own right, much like FMJ (always makes me think of Female Genital Mutilation when I type that) - did when he fought and beat Oscar.

ikorolev wrote:

jujigatame wrote:Aside from an additional paper title being involved this wasn't any bigger of a fight than GGG/Geale.

That is bullsh1t. Lemieux would give very hard time to any other MW: Quillin, Lee, Cotto, Canelo and would beat at least some if not all of them. The problem was not in Lemieux quality as a fighter, but him being barely known in the U.S. Kazakhstani fighting Canadian with insufficient promotion. Of course, it couldn't hit higher numbers.

Sorry but it's true. At the time, Geale was seen as a big step up for Golovkin, an established high-level MW who would give him his toughest test. He'd gone on the road to Germany and beaten Sylvester and Sturm. He was probably ranked around #5 at the time, just like Lemieux.

I agree that Lemieux being unknown in the US compounded the problem, but if you put Andy Lee or Danny Jacobs in there, the numbers would only have been marginally better.

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:

koolkc107 wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:Mayweather's PPV debut was against a severely over matched Arturo Gatti. A card which did roughly twice the buys as the GGG PPV. However, Mayweather was much more established in the boxing world than Golovkin is at this time, and he was fighting Gatti. G was virtually an unknown until his HBO debut 3 years ago. It may have been a tad early for PPV, but I'm not complaining. When he gets Canelo or Cotto, you're going to see some impressive PPV numbers. It wasn't until Floyd's 4th PPV bout with DLH that he did any real significant numbers. I expect G will do significant numbers in either his 2nd or 3rd PPV.

Decent take, even if I don't necessarily agree with it.

Even if we allow that Mayweather was "more established" then than Golovkin is now, there is a question about who was hyped more. I'd say Gennady holds that edge. Pretty sure Mayweather didn't have half the pub up to the Gatti fight that Golovkin has enjoyed and I know he didn't have an endorsement deal and commercial with apple.

The other extremely important aspect not being mentioned by those who want to compare Golovkin's PPV failure to Mayweather's debut is perhaps one of the most telling.

HBO is in 2.5 times more homes now than when Floyd and Arturo fought.

Golovkin had access to 122 million homes, Mayweather about 50 million.

Floyd did well over 2 times the business with only two fifths the audience.

I agree that Golovkin should do better his next outing...pretty hard to do worse. But, as long as he continues to fight second tier guys, he will never have the breakout numbers they are hoping him to get.

HBO has about 30m subscribers, not 122m. But that's beside the point since anyone with basic cable can order HBO PPV, and the number of cable subscribers has been dropping steadily. Where did you pull all these garbage numbers from?

The numbers are accurate. And I used only HBO's numbers as an illustration, but I am certain there is a similar correlation between those numbers and total cable subscribers.

Worldwide, HBO has at least over 120 million subscribers

http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/15/84214 ... 5-earnings

Back in 2005, the number was much smaller.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/26/news/fo ... _showtime/

Are you actually trying to refute the contention that Golovkin was accessible to a much bigger audience than Floyd was?