BoxRec

klitschko by terribly boring decision.

Wales wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
To not have a heavyweight title fight in Vegas or NY for 8 years is shameful IMO. After what Tyson, Lennox, Bowe and Evander did for the division, Wlad was a poor excuse to carry flame next. I think Vitali would have been ten times better as champion in every way. His style of boxing was way more exciting and he had an edge, some charisma.

My only hope is that if Wlad wins, he retires and let's the young kids get after it. Then Boxing would have to do a mini heavyweight tournament or some eliminator fights that could really stir up some buzz in the division with fans and get this division back on track. That would really do wonders for boxing.

No shame in staying at home if that's where the money and fan base is.

Exactly. Arrogance of thinking it's shameful that a German promoted ukranian doesn't fight in Vegas lol

Idiotic people can't understand that these fights he was taking in Germany were hardly televised in the states and when they were, they were at 2pm on a Saturday. Then they use this same dumb excuse about "might as well fight where the money is". Genius ideas. Way to grow the brand and promote your sport. Germany...it's hilarious. I have to go back to Max Schmelling to find a German worth a damn in boxing.

Some things do happen outside the United States.

caldo2025 wrote:

Wales wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:


No shame in staying at home if that's where the money and fan base is.

Exactly. Arrogance of thinking it's shameful that a German promoted ukranian doesn't fight in Vegas lol

Idiotic people can't understand that these fights he was taking in Germany were hardly televised in the states and when they were, they were at 2pm on a Saturday. Then they use this same dumb excuse about "might as well fight where the money is". Genius ideas. Way to grow the brand and promote your sport. Germany...it's hilarious. I have to go back to Max Schmelling to find a German worth a damn in boxing.

epic stupidity. Congrats, amazing how pathetic it was when guys like holyfield & Holmes refused to fight in Indonesia. No American networks were interested in his fights.

squiggy wrote:Some things do happen outside the United States.

Agreed!

By the way, how's Lenny?

I'm going to go for Klitschko because Fury keeps talking about losing and his casual approach to this rematch.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:His adjustment isn't that vast, he needs to punch a wide open target.

But...but...Fury is a defensive master!

Riddick Blowe wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:His adjustment isn't that vast, he needs to punch a wide open target.

But...but...Fury is a defensive master!

Vlad certainly made it look that way lol, really hoping he doesn't fight scared again. That was embarrassing.

caldo2025 wrote:

Wales wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:


No shame in staying at home if that's where the money and fan base is.

Exactly. Arrogance of thinking it's shameful that a German promoted ukranian doesn't fight in Vegas lol

Idiotic people can't understand that these fights he was taking in Germany were hardly televised in the states and when they were, they were at 2pm on a Saturday. Then they use this same dumb excuse about "might as well fight where the money is". Genius ideas. Way to grow the brand and promote your sport. Germany...it's hilarious. I have to go back to Max Schmelling to find a German worth a damn in boxing.

By the same logic shouldn't the American champs made more effort to put on fights in Germany and other places to grow the sport?

caldo2025 wrote:

Wales wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:


No shame in staying at home if that's where the money and fan base is.

Exactly. Arrogance of thinking it's shameful that a German promoted ukranian doesn't fight in Vegas lol

Idiotic people can't understand that these fights he was taking in Germany were hardly televised in the states and when they were, they were at 2pm on a Saturday. Then they use this same dumb excuse about "might as well fight where the money is". Genius ideas. Way to grow the brand and promote your sport. Germany...it's hilarious. I have to go back to Max Schmelling to find a German worth a damn in boxing.

Guess what, America isn't the home of boxing any more.

German TV audiences for boxing are huge, and it's free to air, therefore there are also huge advertising revenues, add in the TV rights for all the Eastern European nations, and there's no need for Wlad to fight in the U.S.

You yanks, always think the world revolves around you.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Wales wrote:
Exactly. Arrogance of thinking it's shameful that a German promoted ukranian doesn't fight in Vegas lol

Idiotic people can't understand that these fights he was taking in Germany were hardly televised in the states and when they were, they were at 2pm on a Saturday. Then they use this same dumb excuse about "might as well fight where the money is". Genius ideas. Way to grow the brand and promote your sport. Germany...it's hilarious. I have to go back to Max Schmelling to find a German worth a damn in boxing.

Guess what, America isn't the home of boxing any more.

German TV audiences for boxing are huge, and it's free to air, therefore there are also huge advertising revenues, add in the TV rights for all the Eastern European nations, and there's no need for Wlad to fight in the U.S.

You yanks, always think the world revolves around you.

Vegas is the capitol city of Boxing. That's not me being an American Ahole, that's a fact. Boxers from every other country have a goal to fight in the US and in Vegas as it means they have made it. To deny that is like denying there's a nose on your face. I was in Ireland two weeks ago and got to talking to a couple of boxers and they were telling me about their goals and how only the special ones get to fight in America and out of the country. So once again, your opinion stinks.

caldo2025 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
Idiotic people can't understand that these fights he was taking in Germany were hardly televised in the states and when they were, they were at 2pm on a Saturday. Then they use this same dumb excuse about "might as well fight where the money is". Genius ideas. Way to grow the brand and promote your sport. Germany...it's hilarious. I have to go back to Max Schmelling to find a German worth a damn in boxing.

Guess what, America isn't the home of boxing any more.

German TV audiences for boxing are huge, and it's free to air, therefore there are also huge advertising revenues, add in the TV rights for all the Eastern European nations, and there's no need for Wlad to fight in the U.S.

You yanks, always think the world revolves around you.

Vegas is the capitol city of Boxing. That's not me being an American Ahole, that's a fact. Boxers from every other country have a goal to fight in the US and in Vegas as it means they have made it. To deny that is like denying there's a nose on your face. I was in Ireland two weeks ago and got to talking to a couple of boxers and they were telling me about their goals and how only the special ones get to fight in America and out of the country. So once again, your opinion stinks.

Well, Wladimir has made a fortune fighting in Germany, I guess he would disagree. They regularly get crowds of 40,000 people for a big fight there. There's no need to come to the U.S to make it big, when you're pulling in huge TV audiences and huge gates. The money is there in Germany.

Yes, I agree, every fighter would still like to fight in Vegas at least once, Vegas is still a mecca, but the days when a fighter had to go to the states to make it big are long gone.

In any case, earlier in his career, Wladimir fought many times in both NY, Las Vegas and New Jersey, so what's your beef?

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Guess what, America isn't the home of boxing any more.

German TV audiences for boxing are huge, and it's free to air, therefore there are also huge advertising revenues, add in the TV rights for all the Eastern European nations, and there's no need for Wlad to fight in the U.S.

You yanks, always think the world revolves around you.

Vegas is the capitol city of Boxing. That's not me being an American Ahole, that's a fact. Boxers from every other country have a goal to fight in the US and in Vegas as it means they have made it. To deny that is like denying there's a nose on your face. I was in Ireland two weeks ago and got to talking to a couple of boxers and they were telling me about their goals and how only the special ones get to fight in America and out of the country. So once again, your opinion stinks.

Well, Wladimir has made a fortune fighting in Germany, I guess he would disagree. They regularly get crowds of 40,000 people for a big fight there. There's no need to come to the U.S to make it big, when you're pulling in huge TV audiences and huge gates. The money is there in Germany.

Yes, I agree, every fighter would still like to fight in Vegas at least once, Vegas is still a mecca, but the days when a fighter had to go to the states to make it big are long gone.

In any case, earlier in his career, Wladimir fought many times in both NY, Las Vegas and New Jersey, so what's your beef?

"My Beef" is pretty obvious, isn't it? It's not a coincidence that boxing's decline over the years happened during Wlad's reign as champion. He contributed more than anyone to it's decline and he single handedly killed one of the greatest divisions in boxing with the way he chose to conduct himself as champion.

Wlad's been without the title for what now, 7 months now? Look how exciting the division is already. As heavyweight champion, you have a responsibility to carry the sport and promote it. He chose to hide it in Germany because Germans will buy anything, even his boing as fights.

I'm not saying that he should have fought in America all of those times. I'm just saying that he should have mixed it up more and fight in a bunch of different countries if he had any balls. Instead he didn't take any chances to try to grow his brand or promote the sport. He sucks and i hope Fury beats his ass badly

caldo2025 wrote:
"My Beef" is pretty obvious, isn't it? It's not a coincidence that boxing's decline over the years happened during Wlad's reign as champion. He contributed more than anyone to it's decline and he single handedly killed one of the greatest divisions in boxing with the way he chose to conduct himself as champion.

Wlad's been without the title for what now, 7 months now? Look how exciting the division is already. As heavyweight champion, you have a responsibility to carry the sport and promote it. He chose to hide it in Germany because Germans will buy anything, even his boing as fights.

I'm not saying that he should have fought in America all of those times. I'm just saying that he should have mixed it up more and fight in a bunch of different countries if he had any balls. Instead he didn't take any chances to try to grow his brand or promote the sport. He sucks and i hope Fury beats his ass badly

I hate Wlad and he bores me to tears but the lack of excitement in the division is more due to the terrible standard than just Wlad's dullness. If an actual ATG-standard fighter or two, like Holy or Lewis were around in this era instead of the last one, and a couple of exciting contenders on the Ruddock, Witherspoon level, Wlad would be just a contender too, and the division itself would be more interesting. But because of depth rather than just Wlad.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
"My Beef" is pretty obvious, isn't it? It's not a coincidence that boxing's decline over the years happened during Wlad's reign as champion. He contributed more than anyone to it's decline and he single handedly killed one of the greatest divisions in boxing with the way he chose to conduct himself as champion.

Wlad's been without the title for what now, 7 months now? Look how exciting the division is already. As heavyweight champion, you have a responsibility to carry the sport and promote it. He chose to hide it in Germany because Germans will buy anything, even his boing as fights.

I'm not saying that he should have fought in America all of those times. I'm just saying that he should have mixed it up more and fight in a bunch of different countries if he had any balls. Instead he didn't take any chances to try to grow his brand or promote the sport. He sucks and i hope Fury beats his ass badly

I hate Wlad and he bores me to tears but the lack of excitement in the division is more due to the terrible standard than just Wlad's dullness. If an actual ATG-standard fighter or two, like Holy or Lewis were around in this era instead of the last one, and a couple of exciting contenders on the Ruddock, Witherspoon level, Wlad would be just a contender too, and the division itself would be more interesting. But because of depth rather than just Wlad.

I agree, previously, everyone was just waiting to get their asses kicked by Wlad, because they knew they had little chance of winning. As boring as Wlad was, and he was very boring, he was so much better than the rest, partly just through being so experienced, and being big and having developed a style that was very very hard to beat, thus there was little impetus for the contenders to fight one another and develop. Just tread water, wait for your shot, take your beating, and then back down again. Rinse and repeat.

As you say, Wlad would have been just another contender in the previous era, Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, all of them would have kicked his big ass.

Vitali, now there's another story, - he was one mean hombre, tough night's work for anyone in his prime.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
"My Beef" is pretty obvious, isn't it? It's not a coincidence that boxing's decline over the years happened during Wlad's reign as champion. He contributed more than anyone to it's decline and he single handedly killed one of the greatest divisions in boxing with the way he chose to conduct himself as champion.

Wlad's been without the title for what now, 7 months now? Look how exciting the division is already. As heavyweight champion, you have a responsibility to carry the sport and promote it. He chose to hide it in Germany because Germans will buy anything, even his boing as fights.

I'm not saying that he should have fought in America all of those times. I'm just saying that he should have mixed it up more and fight in a bunch of different countries if he had any balls. Instead he didn't take any chances to try to grow his brand or promote the sport. He sucks and i hope Fury beats his ass badly

I hate Wlad and he bores me to tears but the lack of excitement in the division is more due to the terrible standard than just Wlad's dullness. If an actual ATG-standard fighter or two, like Holy or Lewis were around in this era instead of the last one, and a couple of exciting contenders on the Ruddock, Witherspoon level, Wlad would be just a contender too, and the division itself would be more interesting. But because of depth rather than just Wlad.

I agree, previously, everyone was just waiting to get their asses kicked by Wlad, because they knew they had little chance of winning. As boring as Wlad was, and he was very boring, he was so much better than the rest, partly just through being so experienced, and being big and having developed a style that was very very hard to beat, thus there was little impetus for the contenders to fight one another and develop. Just tread water, wait for your shot, take your beating, and then back down again. Rinse and repeat.

As you say, Wlad would have been just another contender in the previous era, Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, all of them would have kicked his big ass.

Vitali, now there's another story, - he was one mean hombre, tough night's work for anyone in his prime.

As a Caveat, if Vitali and Wlad hadn't been related, we'd have seen a better division too, Vitali would have smashed Wlad to bits, and would have been the undisputed champ. Still, there would still have been very little for him to fight. Vitali never really came close to losing after losing to Lewis, age and injury caught up with him in the end, but he was still nowhere near being beaten even in his final fight.

Vitali was obviously more willing to fight. I'd pick him over wlad but his lack of offensive variety and power wouldn't make him a lock over wlad.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: As a Caveat, if Vitali and Wlad hadn't been related, we'd have seen a better division too, Vitali would have smashed Wlad to bits, and would have been the undisputed champ. Still, there would still have been very little for him to fight. Vitali never really came close to losing after losing to Lewis, age and injury caught up with him in the end, but he was still nowhere near being beaten even in his final fight.

Yeah I would really have liked to see Vitali mix it in the previous era. I don't think he could have beaten Lewis, Bowe, Holy or Tyson, but he would have made them all very good fights. Vitali would have had the best chance against the post-prison Tyson in that bunch.

I'm just glad we got to see Vitali against an albeit faded Lewis so we at least had some insight into what he could do vs the best. More than could be said for his little bro.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Vitali was obviously more willing to fight. I'd pick him over wlad but his lack of offensive variety and power wouldn't make him a lock over wlad.

I'd have picked him all day long, Vitali had a better workrate, wasn't afraid to get hit, and would have scared the shite out of Wlad. Wlad himself said his brother is the more natural fighter of the two.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: As a Caveat, if Vitali and Wlad hadn't been related, we'd have seen a better division too, Vitali would have smashed Wlad to bits, and would have been the undisputed champ. Still, there would still have been very little for him to fight. Vitali never really came close to losing after losing to Lewis, age and injury caught up with him in the end, but he was still nowhere near being beaten even in his final fight.

Yeah I would really have liked to see Vitali mix it in the previous era. I don't think he could have beaten Lewis, Bowe, Holy or Tyson, but he would have made them all very good fights. Vitali would have had the best chance against the post-prison Tyson in that bunch.

I'm just glad we got to see Vitali against an albeit faded Lewis so we at least had some insight into what he could do vs the best. More than could be said for his little bro.

I think Tyson would have been VERY intimidated by Vitali. He's the one guy I think Vitali would have had the goods over all day long. Tough enough to survive the early onslaught, and busy enough to bust Mike up. He has his flaws, but he was tough as hell, and a true fightin' man, to paraphrase the Furys.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: As a Caveat, if Vitali and Wlad hadn't been related, we'd have seen a better division too, Vitali would have smashed Wlad to bits, and would have been the undisputed champ. Still, there would still have been very little for him to fight. Vitali never really came close to losing after losing to Lewis, age and injury caught up with him in the end, but he was still nowhere near being beaten even in his final fight.

Yeah I would really have liked to see Vitali mix it in the previous era. I don't think he could have beaten Lewis, Bowe, Holy or Tyson, but he would have made them all very good fights. Vitali would have had the best chance against the post-prison Tyson in that bunch.

I'm just glad we got to see Vitali against an albeit faded Lewis so we at least had some insight into what he could do vs the best. More than could be said for his little bro.

Holy would have been a tight one I think. Great fight too.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I think Tyson would have been VERY intimidated by Vitali. He's the one guy I think Vitali would have had the goods over all day long. Tough enough to survive the early onslaught, and busy enough to bust Mike up. He has his flaws, but he was tough as hell, and a true fightin' man, to paraphrase the Furys.

I see no reason for Tyson to be intimidated. IMO Tyson was much better at cutting the ring than Vitali at keeping his opponents on distance.
Tough to survive the early onslaught? Apart from maybe Sanders I can't remember anyone trying to do something remotely close to it... and while Vitali made it somehow and Sanders stamina was gone after 2 rounds, Tyson would be more dangerous... and would also last more than 2 rounds.

Busy enough to bust Mike up? Well, again I really doubt it. He looked OK after 10 rounds of target practice against guys like Adamek or Arreola, but nowhere close to it after a couple of rounds when Lewis just woke up. I would say that considering their styles, Vitali is still the first to run out of gas.

Of course, I assume you were discussing prime for prime, not the 2004 version when there were some rumours about this fight (which did not materialize since Tyson could not get through Williams at that time).

They're both quite flawed.

I actually think that this is one of the very, very few matches where betting on a draw is a fair risk/reward at the moment.