Povetkin's team wins purse bid

[Lancenix]

Well just because Riabinsky won the purse bid, it doesn't mean the fight can't still be in the US. They've won the rights to promote the fight, but they could promote that fight anywhere.

Jay Deas, Wilder's promoter, is hopeful that the fight can still be made in the US. The Barclays Centre is owned by a Russian, and there is a large Russian community in Brooklyn. Throw in the fact that the dollar is stronger than the ruble, he'd take much less of a loss hosting the fight in the states.

I for one could see why Wilder would vacate, but would not endorse that decision. Adversity is not an excuse in sport. I personally don't think he will vacate, and as the odds do suggest, its a genuine 50:50 fight. Two fighters of contrasting style. One technically brilliant, and one with an explosive finish. Could go either way. See Povetkin over the distance, or Wilder in the stoppage.

This is not a 50-50 fight at all. I see by the way you and other are writing you are already trying to give Wilder the coward that he is an out to not take the fight and I would not expect anything less.

If you'd read it properly you'd see I do not endorse any decision to vacate, and I like everyone would be extremely disappointed. I think if anything, the evidence suggests that Wilder will not vacate, and he will meet Povetkin in the ring in his next fight.

I don't think Wilder has done anything wrong in his career so far, he has an unblemished record, albeit on most part against limited opposition, but I believe Szpilka was definitely a worthy opponent. He'll fight Povetkin next, and I think he's already started to pave the way for a unification with Fury. We'll judge Wilder on his actions at the end of his career, rather than looking for a scapegoat before it happens.

You did write " I could see why Wilder would vacate". I would not make that statement at all. I see no reason for him to vacate at all. This is boxing and American fighters once went over seas and took fights now there seems to be an entitlement that even as the challenger Americans think they should fight in America. You have to admit back in the day there were a lot more big fights fought outside the USA involving AMERICANS THAN TODAY. But I see no reason why that should be the case.

[Lancenix]

Povetkin will fight wherever he will be told by Riabinsky! So is Wilder, by the way (only by his manager).

If Riabinsky will get 3-4 millions from Kremlin - he'll arrange ridiculuos patriotic show in Moscow. If he will not - the fight will be in US, since Riabinsky cannot earn 7M in Russia.

For Klitchko-Povetkin Kremlin paid 14M (via RosNeft, government company) and it ended as major upset and disgrace. I believe they will not do it this time...but go understand Russians

And how can he earn 7.5 million in America? Is Showtime going to pay 5 million? I doubt it very much. Otherwise Haymon would bid more. It makes no sense for Povetkin to win a bid and then take it America.

I just do not see this as that kind of fight that will bring in those kinds of numbers but possibly Barcley's that would be the one place I could see it in the States. Otherwise, you are right it makes no sense anywhere else.

[bigman1968]

Povetkin will fight wherever he will be told by Riabinsky! So is Wilder, by the way (only by his manager).

If Riabinsky will get 3-4 millions from Kremlin - he'll arrange ridiculuos patriotic show in Moscow. If he will not - the fight will be in US, since Riabinsky cannot earn 7M in Russia.

For Klitchko-Povetkin Kremlin paid 14M (via RosNeft, government company) and it ended as major upset and disgrace. I believe they will not do it this time...but go understand Russians

And how can he earn 7.5 million in America? Is Showtime going to pay 5 million? I doubt it very much. Otherwise Haymon would bid more. It makes no sense for Povetkin to win a bid and then take it America.

7.5M income in US is realistic, that's why Haymon bid for 5M. Riabinsky cannot break even on 7.5M in Russia, without government money. It's no way to sell out Olimpiisky for 5.5M like he did at Klitchko-Povetkin, German TV is not going to pay 4M if it's not Klitchko's fight and US TV will not pay big money for early morning fight with commonly unknown Povetkin.

So it all depends on Riabinsky negotiation with the Kremlin's guys

[sucracristo]

7.5M income in US is realistic, that's why Haymon bid for 5M. Riabinsky cannot break even on 7.5M in Russia, without government money. It's no way to sell out Olimpiisky for 5.5M like he did at Klitchko-Povetkin, German TV is not going to pay 4M if it's not Klitchko's fight and US TV will not pay big money for early morning fight with commonly unknown Povetkin.

So it all depends on Riabinsky negotiation with the Kremlin's guys

haymon is not a promoter so he doesn't bid. he's a manager. haymon uses regional promoters to
stage PBC brand shows, like the goosens in california, warriors in florida, dibella in new york, etc.
dibella bid the $5.1mil.

-riabinsky only has 7 days from the bid to present the contracts to the boxers (this friday march 4th)

-riabinsky has 10 days from the purse bid (this monday march 7) to put down a 10% deposit ($715k)
or the wbc will void riabinsky's bid and give it to dibella. riabinsky would be out the $10k he paid to
participate in the bid and i'm not sure if that would affect future WBC bids from him.

-riabinsky has 15 days from the bid (saturday march 12) to announce the specific city, state, country,
and date of the event. i believe 90 days/may 26 is at latest it can be staged.

-the boxers have until the 21st day (friday march 18) to submit the signed contracts to the WBC.

there are still opportunities for the wheels to come off this phoney purse bid. if riabinsky
can't find someone with deep pockets to subsidize this (taxpayers, mobsters, etc), he will
have to lose his own money staging it, or abandon it. people always talk about crazy billionaires
dumping money into losing ventures (like race horses) on purpose for tax write offs and such,
but the WBC should be watching very closely who is willing to throw millions $$ into this losing
venture, particularly if the mob is involved. losing ventures like gambling losses are often
just a conveneint way to launder money (make ill gotten gains seem like legally explainable
income). if people intentionally lose money, they generally want something else in trade.

[asdfjkl]

Povetkin will fight wherever he will be told by Riabinsky! So is Wilder, by the way (only by his manager).

If Riabinsky will get 3-4 millions from Kremlin - he'll arrange ridiculuos patriotic show in Moscow. If he will not - the fight will be in US, since Riabinsky cannot earn 7M in Russia.

For Klitchko-Povetkin Kremlin paid 14M (via RosNeft, government company) and it ended as major upset and disgrace. I believe they will not do it this time...but go understand Russians

And how can he earn 7.5 million in America? Is Showtime going to pay 5 million? I doubt it very much. Otherwise Haymon would bid more. It makes no sense for Povetkin to win a bid and then take it America.

Haters spent money as well, I wouldn't be surprised if there come a lot of people, even in America who would love to see Deontay Wilder in serious trouble.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Americans don't care about boxing, much less boxers.

[Tarkus]

Povetkin will fight wherever he will be told by Riabinsky! So is Wilder, by the way (only by his manager).

If Riabinsky will get 3-4 millions from Kremlin - he'll arrange ridiculuos patriotic show in Moscow. If he will not - the fight will be in US, since Riabinsky cannot earn 7M in Russia.

For Klitchko-Povetkin Kremlin paid 14M (via RosNeft, government company) and it ended as major upset and disgrace. I believe they will not do it this time...but go understand Russians

And how can he earn 7.5 million in America? Is Showtime going to pay 5 million? I doubt it very much. Otherwise Haymon would bid more. It makes no sense for Povetkin to win a bid and then take it America.

7.5M income in US is realistic, that's why Haymon bid for 5M. Riabinsky cannot break even on 7.5M in Russia, without government money. It's no way to sell out Olimpiisky for 5.5M like he did at Klitchko-Povetkin, German TV is not going to pay 4M if it's not Klitchko's fight and US TV will not pay big money for early morning fight with commonly unknown Povetkin.

So it all depends on Riabinsky negotiation with the Kremlin's guys

I ask again, how? Haymon bid 5M as he is always works at loss. And 7.5 - 5 = 2.5. Riabinsky/Putin probably looses money regardless whether it is is in Russia or USA. At least in Russia they get the advantage for their fighter and all the patriotic hoopla they can generate in prime time.

[Tarkus]

Povetkin will fight wherever he will be told by Riabinsky! So is Wilder, by the way (only by his manager).

If Riabinsky will get 3-4 millions from Kremlin - he'll arrange ridiculuos patriotic show in Moscow. If he will not - the fight will be in US, since Riabinsky cannot earn 7M in Russia.

For Klitchko-Povetkin Kremlin paid 14M (via RosNeft, government company) and it ended as major upset and disgrace. I believe they will not do it this time...but go understand Russians

And how can he earn 7.5 million in America? Is Showtime going to pay 5 million? I doubt it very much. Otherwise Haymon would bid more. It makes no sense for Povetkin to win a bid and then take it America.

Haters spent money as well, I wouldn't be surprised if there come a lot of people, even in America who would love to see Deontay Wilder in serious trouble.

Even if they stuck Barclays to the rafters they will be still 5 mil short.

[bigman1968]

And how can he earn 7.5 million in America? Is Showtime going to pay 5 million? I doubt it very much. Otherwise Haymon would bid more. It makes no sense for Povetkin to win a bid and then take it America.

7.5M income in US is realistic, that's why Haymon bid for 5M. Riabinsky cannot break even on 7.5M in Russia, without government money. It's no way to sell out Olimpiisky for 5.5M like he did at Klitchko-Povetkin, German TV is not going to pay 4M if it's not Klitchko's fight and US TV will not pay big money for early morning fight with commonly unknown Povetkin.

So it all depends on Riabinsky negotiation with the Kremlin's guys

I ask again, how? Haymon bid 5M as he is always works at loss. And 7.5 - 5 = 2.5. Riabinsky/Putin probably looses money regardless whether it is is in Russia or USA. At least in Russia they get the advantage for their fighter and all the patriotic hoopla they can generate in prime time.

Previous patriotic hoopla at prime time went very bad, Klitchko humiliated Povetkin (after the the fight got new nickname - Sasha Armpit-kin, for sticking his head to Ukrainian armpits all the fight). Russian boxing fans I'm friendly with don't read this forum and do not know that Povetkin actually won the fight
So the possibility that the great Armpit-kin will be KOed by American in the middle of Moscow - is Kremlin's nightmare

[Tarkus]

7.5M income in US is realistic, that's why Haymon bid for 5M. Riabinsky cannot break even on 7.5M in Russia, without government money. It's no way to sell out Olimpiisky for 5.5M like he did at Klitchko-Povetkin, German TV is not going to pay 4M if it's not Klitchko's fight and US TV will not pay big money for early morning fight with commonly unknown Povetkin.

So it all depends on Riabinsky negotiation with the Kremlin's guys

I ask again, how? Haymon bid 5M as he is always works at loss. And 7.5 - 5 = 2.5. Riabinsky/Putin probably looses money regardless whether it is is in Russia or USA. At least in Russia they get the advantage for their fighter and all the patriotic hoopla they can generate in prime time.

Previous patriotic hoopla at prime time went very bad, Klitchko humiliated Povetkin (after the the fight got new nickname - Sasha Armpit-kin, for sticking his head to Ukrainian armpits all the fight). Russian boxing fans I'm friendly with don't read this forum and do not know that Povetkin actually won the fight
So the possibility that the great Armpit-kin will be KOed by American in the middle of Moscow - is Kremlin's nightmare

Then they should never organize a boxing match ever. Thats not a serious argument.

[bigman1968]

And how can he earn 7.5 million in America? Is Showtime going to pay 5 million? I doubt it very much. Otherwise Haymon would bid more. It makes no sense for Povetkin to win a bid and then take it America.

Haters spent money as well, I wouldn't be surprised if there come a lot of people, even in America who would love to see Deontay Wilder in serious trouble.

Even if they stuck Barclays to the rafters they will be still 5 mil short.

Full Barclays is 18,000 tickets, presuming 250$ average price = 4.5M. Plus US TV channel/s, plus Russian TV. Break even, at least.

The real question is - can Wilder vs Povetkin stuck the Barclays (or any other 18,000 arena in the world)?

[bigman1968]

I ask again, how? Haymon bid 5M as he is always works at loss. And 7.5 - 5 = 2.5. Riabinsky/Putin probably looses money regardless whether it is is in Russia or USA. At least in Russia they get the advantage for their fighter and all the patriotic hoopla they can generate in prime time.

Previous patriotic hoopla at prime time went very bad, Klitchko humiliated Povetkin (after the the fight got new nickname - Sasha Armpit-kin, for sticking his head to Ukrainian armpits all the fight). Russian boxing fans I'm friendly with don't read this forum and do not know that Povetkin actually won the fight
So the possibility that the great Armpit-kin will be KOed by American in the middle of Moscow - is Kremlin's nightmare

Then they should never organize a boxing match ever. Thats not a serious argument.

Organization of a fight is one thing, patriotic hysteria is another. By the way, it will be interesting to check what % of fight Russian boxers lost to foreigners at last 3-5 years...

[Tarkus]

Haters spent money as well, I wouldn't be surprised if there come a lot of people, even in America who would love to see Deontay Wilder in serious trouble.

Even if they stuck Barclays to the rafters they will be still 5 mil short.

Full Barclays is 18,000 tickets, presuming 250$ average price = 4.5M. Plus US TV channel/s, plus Russian TV. Break even, at least.

The real question is - can Wilder vs Povetkin stuck the Barclays (or any other 18,000 arena in the world)?

Thats a helluva presumption. I would presume it around 100$ or less.

[sucracristo]

presuming 250$ average price

the most expensive tix will be a few hundred but if you want to fill barclays the vast majority
of tickets will be in the $50-$100 range. the av ticket will not be much over $100 and the gate
for this won't be much over $2mil. it costs tens of thousands of dollars to rent barclays for
the day, never mind to set it up and staff it, pay judges, referees, doctors, officials, ambulances,
sanction fees, undercard fighters, press conferences and travel and advertising, and all the other
costs to stage the event amounting to hundreds of thousands at least. THEN he has to pay the
main event purse fight night. if $200,000 merchandise + concessions sold at the event it would
be a lot and that is gross, not net. the profit would be a fraction of that. sponsors and ads might
add a litte, but the only other significant revenue would be tv, and that is NOT going to make up
the difference, here. dibella (not haymon) made a bid that MAY have earned him a small profit,
but still a risk. riabinsky is not even going to come close to breaking even on this. this is a big loss.
what is the minimum wage in russia? i think it's less than $2/hr. the average wage of a moscovite
is a fraction of the average manhattan wage. yeah, some people in moscow have money, but you
aren't going to fill an arena at the same ticket prices as new york. the purse bid is already a loss
and in russia this thing earns much less.

[bigman1968]

presuming 250$ average price

the most expensive tix will be a few hundred but if you want to fill barclays the vast majority
of tickets will be in the $50-$100 range. the av ticket will not be much over $100 and the gate
for this won't be much over $2mil. it costs tens of thousands of dollars to rent barclays for
the day, never mind to set it up and staff it, pay judges, referees, doctors, officials, ambulances,
sanction fees, undercard fighters, press conferences and travel and advertising, and all the other
costs to stage the event amounting to hundreds of thousands at least. THEN he has to pay the
main event purse fight night. if $200,000 merchandise + concessions sold at the event it would
be a lot and that is gross, not net. the profit would be a fraction of that. sponsors and ads might
add a litte, but the only other significant revenue would be tv, and that is NOT going to make up
the difference, here. dibella (not haymon) made a bid that MAY have earned him a small profit,
but still a risk. riabinsky is not even going to come close to breaking even on this. this is a big loss.
what is the minimum wage in russia? i think it's less than $2/hr. the average wage of a moscovite
is a fraction of the average manhattan wage. yeah, some people in moscow have money, but you
aren't going to fill an arena at the same ticket prices as new york. the purse bid is already a loss
and in russia this thing earns much less.

At Klitchko-Povetkin, Olimpiisky Center, Moscow 2013, tickets started from 4,500 roubles, ~150$ then, was called "Bronze Level". "Silver" started at 6,900 roubles(~230$). About 1,000 "Gold"s were sold, 800-1,200 USD. Ringsides VIP's - 2,900 and up. Total gate = ~5.5M.

But, it was before rouble collapse from 30/$ to 80/$, and Klitchko was a huge name in Russia. 15,000 guys with money always can be found in 140M country - but Wilder is not known and Povetkin reputation are much lower than in 2013.

[sucracristo]

Total gate = ~5.5M...but Wilder is not known and Povetkin reputation are much lower than in 2013.

for crowd of 35,000, and combined with the economy there now i would be surprised
if the gate for this was 1/2 that. the tv money will also be a fraction. this is going to
be a financial loss. not all revenues cover just the main event. it costs a lot of money
to stage and promote a big event like this and i don't even think revenues will cover
the purse for the main event. don king used to win fake bids and abandon them.
i'm always suspicious when someone volunteers to invest in a losing venture.

[asdfjkl]

If Povetkin get's the belt, then he will make money in his next fight, so perhaps he loses a bit on this one, but wins a lot more in his total carreer

[Freedom2013]

Ryabinskiy just said on Russian TV that the date & venue for Wilder vs Povetkin will be announced on Tuesday.

[Badhusker]

If Povetkin get's the belt, then he will make money in his next fight, so perhaps he loses a bit on this one, but wins a lot more in his total carreer

IF he gets the belt? I am guessing someone like you will need to be on suicide watch if he doesn't. Don't bet the farm.

[keithmoonhangover]

Fair play to Wilder if he goes to Russia for this fight. He will go into the ring thinking he can win, but he'll leave it knowing he couldn't.

[asdfjkl]

If Povetkin get's the belt, then he will make money in his next fight, so perhaps he loses a bit on this one, but wins a lot more in his total carreer

IF he gets the belt? I am guessing someone like you will need to be on suicide watch if he doesn't. Don't bet the farm.

Wilder got the odds actually, he would have lost badly if the fight took place last year, or even earlier, but at this moment? Wilder has at least a fair chance doesn't he? Especially in Russia, in Russia the Russian boxers allways have the refs against them.

[Badhusker]

If Povetkin get's the belt, then he will make money in his next fight, so perhaps he loses a bit on this one, but wins a lot more in his total carreer

IF he gets the belt? I am guessing someone like you will need to be on suicide watch if he doesn't. Don't bet the farm.

Wilder got the odds actually, he would have lost badly if the fight took place last year, or even earlier, but at this moment? Wilder has at least a fair chance doesn't he? Especially in Russia, in Russia the Russian boxers allways have the refs against them.

That pretty much sums it up. Last year, this year...........like that would make a difference. You are just starting to back off in case a guy you hate beats someone you love. No big deal to me, but man up and say so.

[asdfjkl]

IF he gets the belt? I am guessing someone like you will need to be on suicide watch if he doesn't. Don't bet the farm.

Wilder got the odds actually, he would have lost badly if the fight took place last year, or even earlier, but at this moment? Wilder has at least a fair chance doesn't he? Especially in Russia, in Russia the Russian boxers allways have the refs against them.

That pretty much sums it up. Last year, this year...........like that would make a difference. You are just starting to back off in case a guy you hate beats someone you love. No big deal to me, but man up and say so.

Guy, just look at Povetkin's carreer, he had a far superior record as pretty much anyone except for Wladimir?
Wilder his management knew this and that's why they challenged Hughie Fury on short notice, and when Hughie Fury says that's oké, if I can get 8 weeks, Wilder his management realised that was still way too risky, so they moved on to Duhaupas.
Povetkin meanwhile said, or you're going to fight me or we're going to fight next summer (in about 2 months I guess) Wilder greatly fought Duhaupas, gained a year of experience and Povetkin became a year older.

The Wilder that fought Duhaupas is clearly less good as the current Wilder isn't he?

The bookies give Wilder the odds nowadays and now I see the fight is in Russia, there is an ever bigger chance of the Russian losing. So yea, I really don't like Wilder and I didn't expect him to get this far, but now he is, I wouldn't be shocked if he wins. I still think Klitschko, AJ and Fury will win against him and I still wouldn't be surprised if Povetkin wins, but yea, I have doubts, like I also had doubts who would win between Wilder and Duhaupas.

[Badhusker]

When Wilder's team offered Hughie Fury the fight, he had exactly 7.5 weeks to prepare, but refused saying he needed 8 weeks. At the time Fury's team was saying it was like 4 weeks notice, which was a lie. I can give you a link to prove it if you would like, and exposing team Fury's fuzzy math.

[Lancenix]

Fair play to Wilder if he goes to Russia for this fight. He will go into the ring thinking he can win, but he'll leave it knowing he couldn't.

Good post. Well said.