British Top 30 P4P August 2016

[Horse]

Fury has had one world class win. As good and enjoyable as it was it shouldn't rank him above Frampton. You are wrong.

The Cunningham and two Chisora wins were also world class.

[Horse]

Offence taken.

And your grievance is with the literal translation of the term "undisputed".

And when a member begins to use insults in his argument, then i know he is too childish to have a sensible discussion with.

I do applaud your concept with rankings as a bit of fun between boxing enthusiasts, but surely you must realise that people are going to disagree with you somewhere along the line?

Perhaps if you ceased being soo defensive about your views, you might stop for a moment & consider the possibilty that maybe others are right.

Fury is the undisputed champion.

There is no dispute, he is the champion.

[Horse]

When the fight was first announced, you could get Carl as high as a 5/1 underdog with American betting companies.

They thought that this was our routine win for Santa Cruz and that the Dangerous fight (against Mares) was out of the way.

Those odds are dumb.

This fight was not considered to be a routine defence for Santa Cruz.

[Horse]

Groves is too high also. There's EIGHT world champions below him! Groves is a good operator but he's a serial failure at world level.

Groves is better and more proven than a lot of our world champions.

Simply holding a world title should not give a fighter a high ranking.

[Horse]

Have you actually watched them fight? To say neither are beyond English title level is just silly and disrespectful. Both are above British title level.

Murray is more famous for his losses and Khan hasn't won a meaningful fight in frickin ages!

If Khan hasn't won a meaningful fight in ages, then Smith and Walsh have never won a meaningful fight.

[Horse]

But with that logic, applying it to all the weight classes - that means that there isn't a Number One fighter of any of them.

Because there just is not a fighter out there who has beaten every other Champion in his weight class.

Just going by your logic, Mr Horse.

That's not my logic.

[Horse]

I agree. He shouldn't be world champion but has a chance to prove himself next month. He's still a good fighter and above domestic level.

Smith has never proven himself above domestic level.

[BigDoofus]

I agree. He shouldn't be world champion but has a chance to prove himself next month. He's still a good fighter and above domestic level.

Smith has never proven himself above domestic level.

He's not boxed anyone in the top 10 in boxrec's UK super-welters.

[Stuarty]

Fury has had one world class win. As good and enjoyable as it was it shouldn't rank him above Frampton. You are wrong.

The Cunningham and two Chisora wins were also world class.

ok Horse

[Stuarty]

Groves is too high also. There's EIGHT world champions below him! Groves is a good operator but he's a serial failure at world level.

Groves is better and more proven than a lot of our world champions.

Simply holding a world title should not give a fighter a high ranking.

Groves is too high. You're giving him a higher ranking because he's beaten your hero Murray who was also too high.

[Horse]

3rd or 4th place for me

I didn't rate Kameda as highly as some people did, so I don't think that McDonnell beating him puts him that high up the rankings.

If McDonnell beats Warren before Brook or DeGale do anything decent again then he might enter the top 4.

[Stuarty]

I agree. He shouldn't be world champion but has a chance to prove himself next month. He's still a good fighter and above domestic level.

Smith has never proven himself above domestic level.

He won a British title and defended it two or three times. Never lost the title in the ring. How is that not above domestic level. Have you ever watched him fight? He shouldn't be a world champion but he's good enough to be in your top 30. You have Nurse and Skeete there ahead of him and Walsh? Walsh will be a world champion this time next year I reckon.

Also if Smith did manage a win against Boxrecs top P4P fighter he would be going from not being in your top 30 to potentially top! Makes a mockery of your system. You've under estimated him and Walsh.

[Stuarty]

3rd or 4th place for me

I didn't rate Kameda as highly as some people did, so I don't think that McDonnell beating him puts him that high up the rankings.

If McDonnell beats Warren before Brook or DeGale do anything decent again then he might enter the top 4.

You didn't rate Kameda highly but a win against Warren would push him up? Strange.

[Stuarty]

Have you actually watched them fight? To say neither are beyond English title level is just silly and disrespectful. Both are above British title level.

Murray is more famous for his losses and Khan hasn't won a meaningful fight in frickin ages!

If Khan hasn't won a meaningful fight in ages, then Smith and Walsh have never won a meaningful fight.

They're at different points in their careers. Khan has been brutally KO'd 3 times and hasn't won a fight in well over a year and even then he looked awful against a limited Algieri. Smith and Walsh are unbeaten and still climbing the ladder.

[Horse]

Horse, could you please post a photo of yourself.

My thoughts are that you are holed up in a silence of the lamb style room, covered in magazine clippings of Khan and Matthew Murray. Please put an end to these vile thoughts by posting a photo. I need to know that you are in fact just a regular bloke who enjoys trolling on a boxing forum.

I need closure on this, I need it badly. The thought that I am exchanging views with a potential MurrayKhan clad monster, sporting a front man fanny and red lipstick whilst he throws out incoherent one liners, disturbs me deeply.

No.

[forcefraser]

Horse, could you please post a photo of yourself.

My thoughts are that you are holed up in a silence of the lamb style room, covered in magazine clippings of Khan and Matthew Murray. Please put an end to these vile thoughts by posting a photo. I need to know that you are in fact just a regular bloke who enjoys trolling on a boxing forum.

I need closure on this, I need it badly. The thought that I am exchanging views with a potential MurrayKhan clad monster, sporting a front man fanny and red lipstick whilst he throws out incoherent one liners, disturbs me deeply.

No.

Fair enough, but as a compromise could you take Khan down by at least one place?

[Horse]

Ola out he has retired bring Liam Walsh in.

I'll probably take Afolabi out next month.

Liam Walsh is the leading candidate to re-enter.

IMO Quigg down 2 and Joshua down 2.

Quigg will drop fairly steadily now as those below him pick up their next wins, at least until he has a comeback against someone half decent.

Joshua is a very unproven world champion, but I wanted to move him above Haskins, as he's done absolutely nothing worthwhile with his IBF title that he's held for over a year now and he wasn't doing very much in the years before that either.

Haskins will overtake Joshua if he beats Hall next month.

[Horse]

I think Smith has a very strong argument for being on the list, but I don't see why his case is strengthened by his goldbrick title. He beat a soft opponent for it and has made defenses against two worse opponents, with Kelly being unproven beyond area level , and Radosevic being totally out of his depth the one time other time he faced a notable opponent.

I often see people arguing that a fighter deserves a higher ranking due to their possession of some title, but being a title holder says little about a fighter's quality if we don't examine who the fighter has actually fought, and in Smith's case the best opponent on his record is arguably John fricking Thompson.

Smith has a decent argument for being in the bottom 5 or so on the list, but so do about another 10 unranked fighters.

[Horse]

Taking issue with Khan's recent resume is entirely fair enough, but a run of Collazo, Alexander and Algieri is in no way comparable to Mark de Mori and Arnold Gjergjaj.

I'm also very surprised at the devaluing of Fury's win here. I am a Frampton fan boy, and he definitely has the deeper resume but Fury's is a win for the ages, and I genuinely can't envisage a British fighter right now who could potentially register a better win.

[forcefraser]

Horse, it will not happen, but if Brook and Smith both win their fights next month, will they be number 1, 2 or 3 in your ratings?

I`s argue that beating either of their two opponents is a bigger/harder win than beating a 40 year Klitschko.

[forcefraser]

Fury has had one world class win. As good and enjoyable as it was it shouldn't rank him above Frampton. You are wrong.

The Cunningham and two Chisora wins were also world class.

ok Horse

Chisora is not World Class. Not judging by his recent performances. He is a gatekeeper at best these days.

[Horse]

On paper. In the real world he hasn't beaten one fighter in the top 80.

Liam Smith's best 10 results:

Erick Ochieng
Steve O'Meara
John Thompson
Barrie Jones
'Jimmy' Kilrain Kelly
Jason Welborn
Mark Thompson
Gary McMillan
Max Maxwell
Terry Carruthers - (Draw)


Are any of those wins above domestic level? How many would be considered to be above English title level?

His record really is very weak by British Top 30 P4P standards.

[Horse]

I think that's mainly down to the fight itself - it was frankly awful and barely a punch was landed by either fighter.

It was a great fight and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[Horse]

He's not boxed anyone in the top 10 in boxrec's UK super-welters.

And it's a weak division as well.

[Horse]

Groves is too high. You're giving him a higher ranking because he's beaten your hero Murray who was also too high.

George Groves' top 10 results:

James DeGale
Carl Froch I - (Lost)
Martin Murray
Carl Froch II - (Lost)
Badou Jack - (Lost)
Glen Johnson
Paul Smith
Christopher Rebrasse
Francisco Sierra
Kenny Anderson


Groves has a very solid record and I think that he deserves a high ranking.