BoxRec

Enlightened-One wrote:

Tanzio wrote:When does Stiverne enter this conversation?

I've mentioned Stiverne multiple times in this thread.

Thanks. Nice that he got mentioned.

Tanzio wrote:When does Stiverne enter this conversation?

Cagey boxing affair stylewise, interesting matchup.

Evander wrote:Cagey boxing affair stylewise, interesting matchup.

I look forward to this fight, if both fighters are optimumly prepared.

Enlightened-One wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:I tried to show you why Wilder's actions were reasonable.
Most reasonable people see that no one is to blame here, but science and Povetkin's PED use.

According to you, the only option is to follow the Holy Contract.

That's the problem with your mindset, is the presumption of guilt without there being a need for evidence.

WADA cleared Povetkin of any allegations of wrongdoing and the WBC did not suspend him, because there wasn't any evidence.

A person should be assumed innocent until proven guilty. The WBC took no action until Wilder walked away from the fight.

The earliest possible date that Deontay will be able to make a return to the ring will be January 2017, by which time he would have been the champion for two years, without having faced his mandatory challenger and there is no date for him to do so.

In stark contrast, the current mandatory challenger knew that in December 2014 that he'd have to defeat Perez to become the mandatory challenger... and as the mandatory challenger, he now has to make a mandatory defence of his mandatory challenger status against Stiverne, whilst the champion would have reigned for two years without having faced any mandatory challengers.

That's one of the most bizarre sentences I've ever written but it's a true statement.

No my man. I believe a PBC dude could have Ray Donovan'ed this whole mess.

You don't understand that I have ZERO emotion in all of this.
Based on the circumstances, I understand why Wilder pulled out.
Povetkin got cleared, something that most PED allegations never end in.
Povetkin will get another shot at the belt, and if Wilder doesn't want the title, Povetkin keeps it.

I see this as a fucked up situation that was resolved correctly, BUT NOT NEARLY AS FAST AS IT COULD HAVE BEEN RESOLVED IN 2016.

Holding on to this makes you seem unreasonable.
Especially because you're talking about a situation involving the WBC

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Based on the circumstances, I understand why Wilder pulled out.

I feel that Wilder shouldn’t have withdrawn from the Povetkin bout or made derogatory remarks and accusations until he had sought legal advice, because there was a contract in place, which he apparently ignored.

At least one member of his team should have understood the terms of the contract if Wilder himself didn’t.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote: Povetkin got cleared, something that most PED allegations never end in.

It was naïve of Wilder to assume the bout would not have gone ahead without seeking confirmation or advice from his legal representatives, Team Povetkin, the promoter and/or the WBC.

It is standard legal practice and “common sense” to assume innocence until guilt has been proven.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Povetkin will get another shot at the belt, and if Wilder doesn't want the title, Povetkin keeps it.

I agree with this point.

Whilst I’m not intimately familiar with both lawsuits that have been filed, it’s hard to not envisage Wilder and Povetkin agreeing to some sort of out-of-court settlement, which probably results in Deontay performing an immediate voluntary defence of his title against the Russian.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Holding on to this makes you seem unreasonable.

I’ve not held onto anything, but when you keep supplying new reasons to justify Wilder’s actions, either the rules of the WBC or the lawsuit notes appear to disprove your theories.

There are always two sides to every story but it seems that many people are only willing to support one of them, whilst ignoring or dismissing the other, without taking into consideration all of the facts.

4 or 5 millions $ in escrow account (cannot be pulled out withot WBC) that Riabinski put to ensure Wilder's purse?

WBC said nothing about it.

And Povetkin-Stiverne fight, economically, is a disaster. No one in US will pay to watch Haitian boxer against unknown(in US) Russian. So, if Riabinski will not spend more money on Povetkin's down the hill carreer - this fight will not happen

I think the Stiverne fight with Povetkin is a good fight, and it wouldn't surprise me if Stiverne won. I'm not overly impressed by either guy. Stiverne may get a few 10-8 rounds by knocking down Povetkin with a jab like Wlad did.
Povetkin looked gassed after his short fight with Perez. Good KO, but it was an odd shot that Perez didn't see coming. Povetkin ducked under Perez's right arm and hit him with a shot while Perez was turned sideways. Legit I guess but odd.

It will be interesting to see if Povetkin maintains that power surge without his go to ped.

Povetkin could win this fight even blindfolded.

I guess that rules out Stiverne for Joshua in the Autumn...

Enlightened-One wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Based on the circumstances, I understand why Wilder pulled out.

I feel that Wilder shouldn’t have withdrawn from the Povetkin bout or made derogatory remarks and accusations until he had sought legal advice, because there was a contract in place, which he apparently ignored.

At least one member of his team should have understood the terms of the contract if Wilder himself didn’t.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote: Povetkin got cleared, something that most PED allegations never end in.

It was naïve of Wilder to assume the bout would not have gone ahead without seeking confirmation or advice from his legal representatives, Team Povetkin, the promoter and/or the WBC.

It is standard legal practice and “common sense” to assume innocence until guilt has been proven.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Povetkin will get another shot at the belt, and if Wilder doesn't want the title, Povetkin keeps it.

I agree with this point.

Whilst I’m not intimately familiar with both lawsuits that have been filed, it’s hard to not envisage Wilder and Povetkin agreeing to some sort of out-of-court settlement, which probably results in Deontay performing an immediate voluntary defence of his title against the Russian.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Holding on to this makes you seem unreasonable.

I’ve not held onto anything, but when you keep supplying new reasons to justify Wilder’s actions, either the rules of the WBC or the lawsuit notes appear to disprove your theories.

There are always two sides to every story but it seems that many people are only willing to support one of them, whilst ignoring or dismissing the other, without taking into consideration all of the facts.

FFS, Wilder didn't withdraw or back out of the fight. The WBC officially postponed the fight on Sunday morning, the 15th, the day Wilder was scheduled to fly to Moscow one week ahead of the fight. To insinuate that Wilder somehow breached his contract because the fight was officially postponed or cancelled is moronic.
"We are in talks with WBC, and they will decide if the fight will go on as planned. "At the moment the fight is not canceled." - said Ryabinskiy. (This was on the 13th, 2 days before the WBC postponed the fight) https://www.rt.com/sport/342971-wilder- ... ping-test/

More info if you are interested.
http://www.BS.com/wilder-vs-po ... ed--104609

Now, let it go. The fight is off. Move on.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:I tried to show you why Wilder's actions were reasonable.
Most reasonable people see that no one is to blame here, but science and Povetkin's PED use.

According to you, the only option is to follow the Holy Contract.

That's the problem with your mindset, is the presumption of guilt without there being a need for evidence.

WADA cleared Povetkin of any allegations of wrongdoing and the WBC did not suspend him, because there wasn't any evidence.

A person should be assumed innocent until proven guilty. The WBC took no action until Wilder walked away from the fight.

The earliest possible date that Deontay will be able to make a return to the ring will be January 2017, by which time he would have been the champion for two years, without having faced his mandatory challenger and there is no date for him to do so.

In stark contrast, the current mandatory challenger knew that in December 2014 that he'd have to defeat Perez to become the mandatory challenger... and as the mandatory challenger, he now has to make a mandatory defence of his mandatory challenger status against Stiverne, whilst the champion would have reigned for two years without having faced any mandatory challengers.

That's one of the most bizarre sentences I've ever written but it's a true statement.

No my man. I believe a PBC dude could have Ray Donovan'ed this whole mess.

You don't understand that I have ZERO emotion in all of this.
Based on the circumstances, I understand why Wilder pulled out.
Povetkin got cleared, something that most PED allegations never end in.
Povetkin will get another shot at the belt, and if Wilder doesn't want the title, Povetkin keeps it.

I see this as a fucked up situation that was resolved correctly, BUT NOT NEARLY AS FAST AS IT COULD HAVE BEEN RESOLVED IN 2016.

Holding on to this makes you seem unreasonable.
Especially because you're talking about a situation involving the WBC

I'm sorry but whatever argument you're making here, you're losing quite emphatically to a pretty thorough and comprehensive objective argument from Enlightened-One. Doesn't matter how much bold text or capital letters you put.

Badhusker wrote:FFS, Wilder didn't withdraw or back out of the fight. The WBC officially postponed the fight on Sunday morning, the 15th, the day Wilder was scheduled to fly to Moscow one week ahead of the fight. To insinuate that Wilder somehow breached his contract because the fight was officially postponed or cancelled is moronic.
"We are in talks with WBC, and they will decide if the fight will go on as planned. "At the moment the fight is not canceled." - said Ryabinskiy. (This was on the 13th, 2 days before the WBC postponed the fight) https://www.rt.com/sport/342971-wilder- ... ping-test/

More info if you are interested.
http://www.BS.com/wilder-vs-po ... ed--104609

Now, let it go. The fight is off. Move on.

My comments are solely based on the Wilder-Povetkin lawsuit notes (as per a previous post I’ve already submitted on this thread).

So if you’re disagreeing with information supplied by Deontay’s own legal representatives, due to your sincere belief that you are better qualified to comment on this matter than they are, then you really need to get yourself involved in this court case… because your evidence could save the American a lot of money!

Rob3_142 wrote:I guess that rules out Stiverne for Joshua in the Autumn...

Not at all. Stiverne can pass on the WBC order which might be likely as the Joshua fight should be more $$$ and is for a title. Why fight for a WBC mando position that might not be enforced for a while when you can go directly for another title?

If he passes, WBC would order the next available opponent which would be Pulev.

Serragon wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:I guess that rules out Stiverne for Joshua in the Autumn...

Not at all. Stiverne can pass on the WBC order which might be likely as the Joshua fight should be more $$$ and is for a title. Why fight for a WBC mando position that might not be enforced for a while when you can go directly for another title?

If he passes, WBC would order the next available opponent which would be Pulev.

Good point. Stiverne would be foolish to not take a fight with Joshua. Even if he beat Povetkin, he was already dominated by Wilder. Not to say Joshua would be easier, but he has a title shot right away. Stiverne has a good enough chin he can at least hope Joshua gasses late.

According to Riabinski, live on MatchTV, Povetkin-Stiverne will be on Nov-December in Barclays NY.

Seems like best opportunity to make money on this fight would be to hold it in Moscow or at least somewhere in Germany and broadcast across Europe. No need for American audience.

bigman1968 wrote:According to Riabinski, live on MatchTV, Povetkin-Stiverne will be on Nov-December in Barclays NY.

Any link of that? I haven't seen MatchTV.

asdfjkl wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:According to Riabinski, live on MatchTV, Povetkin-Stiverne will be on Nov-December in Barclays NY.

Any link of that? I haven't seen MatchTV.

..this might help:
http://matchtv.ru/boxing/matchtvnews_NI ... _Nju_Jorke

Cap wrote:Seems like best opportunity to make money on this fight would be to hold it in Moscow or at least somewhere in Germany and broadcast across Europe. No need for American audience.

Plenty of Russians and Eastern Euros on eastern seaboard to help pack Barclays, and Stiverne's fights with Arreola and Wilder have given him decent American recognition.

Stiverne isn't that good. Povetkin should run him out the building.

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
No I'm not, but I know Wilder doesn't want to fight Povetkin. He was the happiest guy in the world when he got out of the fight with Povetkin.

That's quite stupid.

If you say so. You can keep assuming that Wilder wants challenges while fighting bum after bum after bum if you want though.

hhmmmmm... so he lost 4.6 million when Povetkin failed the test at the time. That would have been his highest pay day by far. What did he get for fighting Arreola instead? He got a quarter of that & 2 injuries. Sometimes I shake my head when I read the "DUCK" crap. The guy has a daughter with health issues so I'm pretty sure he was excited win or lose about 4.6 million because that is life changing money for his family. I'm pretty sure he wasn't happy when he kissed 4.6 million away because there is the possibility he never makes that kind of money again... Sometimes posters just don't think because they are blinded by their nuthuggery...

joe strong wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
That's quite stupid.

If you say so. You can keep assuming that Wilder wants challenges while fighting bum after bum after bum if you want though.

hhmmmmm... so he lost 4.6 million when Povetkin failed the test at the time. That would have been his highest pay day by far. What did he get for fighting Arreola instead? He got a quarter of that & 2 injuries. Sometimes I shake my head when I read the "DUCK" crap. The guy has a daughter with health issues so I'm pretty sure he was excited win or lose about 4.6 million because that is life changing money for his family. I'm pretty sure he wasn't happy when he kissed 4.6 million away because there is the possibility he never makes that kind of money again... Sometimes posters just don't think because they are blinded by their nuthuggery...

Nuthuggery? Who am I nuthugging? I'm no fan of Povetkin, I just want to see Wilder fight a real opponent.

I thought Stiverne was being lined up for Anthony Joshua. Don't really have much care for Povetkin and his bowl hair cut. I wonder who AJ will fight next. If Stivernes, Wilder, Fury (possibly Ortiz) are out whos left, Parker? I'm hoping he fights Parker but I think it will be another disappointing "challenger". Anyway this is a lesson for the other boxers out there, if you take performance enhancers but have a bowl cut you'll be AOK.