golden oldie,
No you don't, so why lie about it? You like to promote Jones Jr as the greatest thing that ever stepped inside a boxing ring, and throw your toys out of your pram if folks disagree with you. Or pat other like minded fanboys such as keithmoonhangover on the back when they equal the amount of Jones Jr nuthugging you are so adept at.
I don't throw my toys out of the pram at all. I've agreed with you on the other thread that he had flaws and couldn't be considered as great as someone like Duran.
I'm only arguing with you here because what you've wrote is an absolute joke.
Wrong again. I just put things in their proper perspectives. Jones Jr was a proven PED cheat. No one can say for sure how long he used PED's therefore his legacy must be tarnished. Then we come to the class of opponents who both put him the ferk to sleep, or TKO'd him.
Ha!
Of course you do.
Your posts are absolutely littered with double standards.
Exactly. Yet he still put your hero to sleep.
Yes, all credit to Glen Johnson. But that does not override everything that Roy accomplished beforehand.
Source. Which doctor, or should that be Witch doctor?
I already told you: the ringside doctor. Again: Glen wasn't a renowned puncher, the punch didn't look particular devastating, and Roy was out for a very long time. It isn't hard to decipher that there was something amiss.
Yes there was. His reflexes had deserted him, and his shite chin was exposed for all the world to see.
He took shots before. He took shots off of a 230 plus pound HW in Ruiz.
You don't THINK, this, you don't THINK that. Come back and tell me if ever you KNOW.
I'll tell you what I KNOW: I KNOW that you are being completeley unreasonable.
I am sure you do. Some folks might have thought the same if he had challenged and beaten Lewis instead of the crap Ruiz.
Ruiz wasn't a great HW. We all know that. But he was tough and durable, and he gave decent HW's a hard nights work. He wasn't crap. He was just ugly to watch.
That is not what you have said in the past. I have seen posts where you argued for days on end on other sites claiming that the ONLY reason for Jones Jr's decline was what you called dramatic weight loss after the Ruiz fight. When folks pointed out to you it was 8 months after Ruiz when Jones faced Tarver, your excuse was he had to lose this weight in a matter of a few weeks because he was in negotiations for fights with the aforementioned Lewis, Tyson, and Holyfield. Indeed it was your contention that Jones was going to stay at heavyweight but these guys didn't want to know, so he was " forced " to go back down to 175.
He never had 8 months to lose the weight. He had a few months to lose the weight. The fight was signed in September, and the fight itself was early in November. Roy was only going to stay at HW for a mega money fight at HW. When one didn't materialise, he took on his mandatory in Tarver.
Now tell me who you are known as on those other sites, and then I'll know exactly who I'm talking to.
Oh I'm telling it like it is alright. Hopkins was 49 and had no business getting in with a puncher like Kovalev, but he didn't get put to sleep did he?
That's right. And fair play to Bernard. But Roy was no longer able to operate on that level when he was fighting guys like Lebedev and Enzo.
So what, you want me to cry with you because your little hero is as thick as shite? According to you he hasn't done any road work for 7 years, because that is how long the thick prick has been fighting at Cruiser.
No, I don't want you to cry. I just want you to apply some common sense and note that losing to guys like Lebedev and Enzo whilst way past his best at a weight he shouldn't even be competing at, shouldn't automatically disqualify him from being classed an ATG. It doesn't erase his past achievements.
The only thing you have got right is he shouldn't have been fighting, where you are missing the point is it should have been the first time that china chin got checked. Simply because he didn't have the fundamental skills to protect it.
I've already agreed with you regarding his reliance of his athleticism when he was prime. That's not the argument. The argument is that you want him to be disqualified from being classed as an ATG, on the basis of his defeats to the likes of Tarver and Johnson, despite the fact that other ATG fighters also lost to guys of that calibre, even BEFORE they reached the age of 35.
In your dreams.
The Lou Del Valle punch shows that both Lebedev or Enzo could have shattered that jaw ANY time they would have hit it. Never underestimate how utterly ferking useless Ruiz was. Compared to him both Lebedev and Macca were greased lightning.
In reality.
The versions of Roy who fought Lebedev and Enzo, literally weren't even half as good as the version of Roy who fought Ruiz.
Sure, IF Enzo or Lebedev had've caught Roy like they did when they actually fought, the results would have been the same. The question is: How likely would that have been? Again: Considering that a washed up, static, 42 year old version of Roy gave Levedev a competitive fight until the very last moment, the Ruiz version of Roy would have beaten him with relative ease. The same applies to Enzo. Are you seriously suggesting that the version of Roy who fought Ruiz in 2003, wouldn't have beaten the version of Enzo he fought at the end of 2015? Ha! Please! Also: Although Ruiz was for from great, he was better than Enzo ever was, especially the version who fought Roy.
Regarding Del Valle, if you watch the replay and you'd seen the fight, you'd know that Roy's back foot slipped on the wet canvas, causing him to fall flat on his face. The referee had halted the fight on 2 earlier occasions to wipe the ring with a towel.
They are/were nothing special.
I never said Tarver and Lebedev were special. I said that they weren't scrubs, and noted that other ATG's have lost to guys of their calibre and below, even before they reached the age of Roy's decline.
Well done for endorsing their greatness by COMING BACK from adversity EARLY in their careers to achieve ATG status.
Ha!
Guess what? Roy didn't have to come back from adversity like they did. Because: He didn't lose in the first place. And are you telling me that if a guy like Tarver had iced him at 25 instead of 35 and Roy had've come back, that would have impressed you? Yeah, sure. It's just double standards.
In his 98th fight Ezzard was KO'd by Marciano, in 101st he gets TKO'd by Holman ( immediately rematches the guy and wins ) in his 109th fight is stopped on a cut lip, then in his 118th, and 120th fights he gets KO'd again.
In his 70th fight in August 49 he won the NBA World Heavy title, and it took until his 78th fight in July 51 until he lost it to Joe Walcott.
And you seriously want to compare this with Jones getting sparked back to back in his 51st and 52nd fight, then stopped by Danny Green in his 60th, hammered by Lebedev in his 62nd and obliterated by Enzo in his 71st.
Everyone's circumstances are different. However, you didn't need to type out the above, because I can put things into context and appreciate a fighters overall body of work. I know all about Charles etc. But the difference is: You give reasons for their losses, yet when I try and do the same with Roy, you class me as a fanboy who's just making excuses.
Ffs Emile Griffith was a Welter, taken out by a natural Middleweight in Carter. Jones was taken out by guys in his OWN division. Your really not too good at this are you?
Ha! I love it.
Guess what? Roy started out at MW, and was taken out by guys like Enzo, who turned pro at HW!! Sure, Roy was taken out by Tarver and Johnson in his own weight class. But that was his THIRD weight class. Was Griffith not fighting in the MW division when he was taken out by Carter? See the double standards. Was Griffith not the same size as Carter? Did he not beat Benvenuti and Tiger and win a belt at MW? Did he not take Monzon the distance? You are being ridiculous.
Similarly Foster was a Light Heavy taken out by a guy 220 + Try harder.
I don't have to try hard at all to expose your double standards. Roy was a peak SMW who got taken out by naturally bigger guys when he was past prime.
Hooray, you finally got one. Though I don't hear anyone claim Tommy was ever anything special above 154.
Tommy is an ATG by anybody's standards. He got knocked out by Barkley in his 3rd weight class, just like Roy did against the likes of Tarver. And Barkley was no better than the likes of Tarver. The only difference is: It happened to Tommy earlier, before he beat the likes of Hill.
If you can show me just one performance to equal that of Douglas in Tokyo 90 by any of the guys who sparked Jones between them i might give you that one. As for the Williams and McBride fights, only an idiot would believe they were for anything other than money. There wasn't even a mention of titles in the future, never mind the pretence of some idiotic one that Jones is STILL chasing.
There's no difference between Mike having lost to McBride, and Roy having lost to Lebedev.
Yep, and because he had the ability ( not just reflexes ) he was able to reverse those KO defeats. How is Jones doing in that department?
Again: He never had to do it. Why? Because before he faded badly, he didn't get beat by Rahman and McCall type opponents. You want to give Lennox credit for avenging the defeats, but you won't give credit for Roy for not being defeated in the first place. It's better to go undefeated in your 20's-30's than it is to lose and then go on to avenge them. Basically, you're penalising Roy for not having lost.
You really haven't got the hang of this have you kid. These are yet more examples of guys overcoming adversity and go on to greater things. Again where does Jones come into this?
Oh I've got the hang of it alright. I have completely exposed you.
Once again: Roy didn't have to avenge earlier defeats to less than stellar opposition like Wlad and Manny did. Because again: He didn't get beat. Singurat iced Manny when he was younger, yet guys of that calibre couldn't do that to Roy at the same stage of his career.
I'll leave you with what I typed previously:
A fighter should be OBJECTIVELY judged on his OVERALL BODY OF WORK. Sure, the losses can't be ignored. We can't pretend that they didn't happen. But they have to be put into CONTEXT. Some of those guys listed lost to guys of Tarver's calibre BEFORE they even reached the heights that Roy did. That's a FACT!
You are a MUG. Go and take up yoghurt knitting it would suit you far better. Seriously you know less than fuk all about this game. You have given examples of guys who were beaten early in their careers who unlike the one trick pony Jones ADAPTED using the fundamentals of boxing, and went on to achieve great things. Your muppet hero had less than fukking nothing once the reflexes went, and became a punchbag when he went up against anyone half way decent, and still is. It is sod all to do with his age, it is his lack of anything else other than reflexes that causes him to get sparked so easily.
You can't argue against what I've wrote. Again: It's a FACT that other ATG's lost to guys the calibre of Tarver and Lebedev, even before they got to the stage where Roy started to fade.
Other than that you have given pathetic examples of guys going up in weight from their natural division and getting sparked. Nothing unusual about that, but just remember shite for brains, it was YOUR boy who CHOSE to add all the weight on to convince idiots like you he could win titles in every division from Middle to Heavy, and he has paid the price for it. Unlike Ezzard Charles, and Emile Griffith or Bob Foster he hasn't been KTFO by guys naturally bigger and heavier than him.
Ha!
So there's nothing unusual about guys going up from their natural division and getting sparked??
THAT'S WHAT ROY DID!
Double standards much??
Almost all of the guys who knocked out Roy were naturally bigger than him.
He was a JMW in the Olympics and turned pro as a MW.
Again: Enzo turned pro as a HW.
So run along now and learn a lot more about the game, or start following tennis. You seem just the sort that would like to hang off Andy Murray's nuts.
Take your own advice.
