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This forum confuses me, on one hand many seem to say AJ is a novice who may well be a cynical hype job but at the same time cry out Molina is not a worthy opponent...

T w_savage wrote:This forum confuses me, on one hand many seem to say AJ is a novice who may well be a cynical hype job but at the same time cry out Molina is not a worthy opponent...

I don't think anyone considers Joshua to be a novice, just inexperienced at world class. He is a world class fighter, and the hype is somewhat irritating but may turn out to be true.

And Molina is a undeserved unworthy opponent. He hasn't beaten a single world class fighter (a totally shot Adamek is the only fighter of note), 2 fights before he got Kod by Wilder and he has been ko'd twice in the first round, including a pathetic display against Arreola.... he is 34, a part time boxer with a flabby physique, has got only 5 weeks left to train and will likely be outweighed by 15 pounds by the super athletic and low body fat, big punching Joshua.

boxingknockout wrote:

T w_savage wrote:This forum confuses me, on one hand many seem to say AJ is a novice who may well be a cynical hype job but at the same time cry out Molina is not a worthy opponent...

I don't think anyone considers Joshua to be a novice, just inexperienced at world class. He is a world class fighter, and the hype is somewhat irritating but may turn out to be true.

And Molina is a undeserved unworthy opponent. He hasn't beaten a single world class fighter (a totally shot Adamek is the only fighter of note), 2 fights before he got Kod by Wilder and he has been ko'd twice in the first round, including a pathetic display against Arreola.... he is 34, a part time boxer with a flabby physique, has got only 5 weeks left to train and will likely be outweighed by 15 pounds by the super athletic and low body fat, big punching Joshua.

Ok, where are the 'world class' opponents on AJ record? You could argue Molina has fort at a higher level!

T w_savage wrote:

boxingknockout wrote:

T w_savage wrote:This forum confuses me, on one hand many seem to say AJ is a novice who may well be a cynical hype job but at the same time cry out Molina is not a worthy opponent...

I don't think anyone considers Joshua to be a novice, just inexperienced at world class. He is a world class fighter, and the hype is somewhat irritating but may turn out to be true.

And Molina is a undeserved unworthy opponent. He hasn't beaten a single world class fighter (a totally shot Adamek is the only fighter of note), 2 fights before he got Kod by Wilder and he has been ko'd twice in the first round, including a pathetic display against Arreola.... he is 34, a part time boxer with a flabby physique, has got only 5 weeks left to train and will likely be outweighed by 15 pounds by the super athletic and low body fat, big punching Joshua.

Ok, where are the 'world class' opponents on AJ record? You could argue Molina has fort at a higher level!

There are plenty of journeyman who fought better opponents than Joshua, but they got battered.

AJ's opponents have hardly been a murderer's row, but he has battered every single one.

Arreola and Wilder are better than anyone on Joshua's resume, but he got kod by both....

fizzjambo wrote:The point is the card is not PPV worthy.

That is decided by thousands of individuals, not by an opinion. If it sells well, then it's PPV worthy, if it doesn't, it isn't

keithmoonhangover wrote:

fizzjambo wrote:The point is the card is not PPV worthy.

That is decided by thousands of individuals, not by an opinion. If it sells well, then it's PPV worthy, if it doesn't, it isn't

That is a bloody good point. On the other hand the problem is that we are talking as knowledgeable fans. We are more logical, educated and cynical. These 'fights' being on PPV will be largely influence by hype, and by that I mean a relentless and devious marketing campaign which convinces the casual fan they are witnessing a serious event. In many other industries, it would be considered fraud!

I know, I know it's business but it's morally distasteful. Like selling someone a turd in sparkling packaging and claiming it's a delicious treat.

I'm sure that premier bellend Benedict Cumberbitch with his smug, shiny, smiley face thought Haye belting out De Mori was a fantastic 'event', but it doesn't make it any better than selling a pig in a poke.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

fizzjambo wrote:The point is the card is not PPV worthy.

That is decided by thousands of individuals, not by an opinion. If it sells well, then it's PPV worthy, if it doesn't, it isn't

Agreed but a succession of shite PPVs hurt the model. Hence the Haye v Harrison comparison. A spade is a spade and Molina is shite

fizzjambo wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

fizzjambo wrote:The point is the card is not PPV worthy.

That is decided by thousands of individuals, not by an opinion. If it sells well, then it's PPV worthy, if it doesn't, it isn't

Agreed but a succession of shite PPVs hurt the model. Hence the Haye v Harrison comparison. A spade is a spade and Molina is shite

That's a very good summary.

Ed's IFL today was a good laugh, he was clearly rattled by the response they've had since announcing this. He tried to justify the PPV by saying this will be the last time we raise our eyebrows at the level of opponent and also because Joshua's now the biggest sports star in the world (his words) it HAS to be PPV

Somehow I don't quite think it works like that Eddie mate, we should be paying to see well matched, competitive fights, not for the privilege of seeing Anthony Joshua on our TVs.

I don't mind Hearn normally but that interview today really wound me up, he didn't have a logical explanation for anything that was put to him other than "That's just how it is"

DannyMCR wrote:Ed's IFL today was a good laugh, he was clearly rattled by the response they've had since announcing this. He tried to justify the PPV by saying this will be the last time we raise our eyebrows at the level of opponent and also because Joshua's now the biggest sports star in the world (his words) it HAS to be PPV

Somehow I don't quite think it works like that Eddie mate, we should be paying to see well matched, competitive fights, not for the privilege of seeing Anthony Joshua on our TVs.

I don't mind Hearn normally but that interview today really wound me up, he didn't have a logical explanation for anything that was put to him other than "That's just how it is"

But unfortunately for us, there are loads of people who are happy to buy a PPV simply for the privilege of seeing Joshua. Hearn would be insane not to take advantage of that fact.

If AJ is the biggest sports star in the world MR should have the money to afford pretty much any opponent. There's a reason why so many fighters were chomping at the bit to land a Mayweather bout....

DannyMCR wrote:Ed's IFL today was a good laugh, he was clearly rattled by the response they've had since announcing this. He tried to justify the PPV by saying this will be the last time we raise our eyebrows at the level of opponent and also because Joshua's now the biggest sports star in the world (his words) it HAS to be PPV

Somehow I don't quite think it works like that Eddie mate, we should be paying to see well matched, competitive fights, not for the privilege of seeing Anthony Joshua on our TVs.

I don't mind Hearn normally but that interview today really wound me up, he didn't have a logical explanation for anything that was put to him other than "That's just how it is"

Ah, Camp Eddie. Strong on tautologies. Weak on opponents.

crusader wrote:If AJ is the biggest sports star in the world MR should have the money to afford pretty much any opponent. There's a reason why so many fighters were chomping at the bit to land a Mayweather bout....

Well he did say biggest boxing star in the world...

fizzjambo wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

fizzjambo wrote:The point is the card is not PPV worthy.

That is decided by thousands of individuals, not by an opinion. If it sells well, then it's PPV worthy, if it doesn't, it isn't

Agreed but a succession of shite PPVs hurt the model. Hence the Haye v Harrison comparison. A spade is a spade and Molina is shite

I don't mind Molina, I think he's the best of a bad bunch in terms of who was available. Hearn tried to get Klitschko and Pulev, but they didn't pan out. Hearn has to put Joshua's career first and he needs to stay active. He needs to stay in the ring and get rounds. If Molina can give him a few rounds, then that's great. It might be a one round blow out, but it ain't Joshua's fault he hits like a ton of bricks. Tyson blew people away in a round and fans queued up for it. I think the undercard makes the PPV interesting. It will appeal to some people and not others. I don't think it will do huge numbers, but Hearn won't be expecting it to.

Also, I'm going to defend the casual (god I hate that word) fans, as they buy tickets for the fights and pay to watch them. Some of the 'hardcore fans on here watch every fight on an illlegal stream and have never attended a show - those people are parasites.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

fizzjambo wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:
That is decided by thousands of individuals, not by an opinion. If it sells well, then it's PPV worthy, if it doesn't, it isn't

Agreed but a succession of shite PPVs hurt the model. Hence the Haye v Harrison comparison. A spade is a spade and Molina is shite

I don't mind Molina, I think he's the best of a bad bunch in terms of who was available. Hearn tried to get Klitschko and Pulev, but they didn't pan out. Hearn has to put Joshua's career first and he needs to stay active. He needs to stay in the ring and get rounds. If Molina can give him a few rounds, then that's great. It might be a one round blow out, but it ain't Joshua's fault he hits like a ton of bricks. Tyson blew people away in a round and fans queued up for it. I think the undercard makes the PPV interesting. It will appeal to some people and not others. I don't think it will do huge numbers, but Hearn won't be expecting it to.

Also, I'm going to defend the casual (god I hate that word) fans, as they buy tickets for the fights and pay to watch them. Some of the 'hardcore fans on here watch every fight on an illlegal stream and have never attended a show - those people are parasites.

I agree, I consider myself to be a boxing nerd, but just because I can debate the merits of an IBF straweight title fight, it doesn't mean I have a more informed view than anyone else as to whether a fight is PPV worthy, or if ticket prices are too high. That's simply determined by supply and demand.

(Incidentally, it is a pretty poor PPV, but I will stay pay for it)....

Rob3_142 wrote:

crusader wrote:If AJ is the biggest sports star in the world MR should have the money to afford pretty much any opponent. There's a reason why so many fighters were chomping at the bit to land a Mayweather bout....

Well he did say biggest boxing star in the world...

Even then, being the sport's biggest star and not being able to get good opponents doesn't go together. How many times was Floyd Mayweather's best option someone like Konstantin Ponomarev or Chris van Heerden?

crusader wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

crusader wrote:If AJ is the biggest sports star in the world MR should have the money to afford pretty much any opponent. There's a reason why so many fighters were chomping at the bit to land a Mayweather bout....

Well he did say biggest boxing star in the world...

Even then, being the sport's biggest star and not being able to get good opponents doesn't go together. How many times was Floyd Mayweather's best option someone like Konstantin Ponomarev or Chris van Heerden?

Joshua is definietly up there amongst the biggest boxing stars in the world; is he a bigger star than Canelo though? That's a tough one for me.

Is he even a bigger draw than Wlad? Wlad does huge TV numbers and gates in Germany, did 22k attendance in Switzerland and has done around 15-20k multiple times in the US, and still gets some of HBO's top US TV numbers, which put Joshua's American ratings to shame.

AJ is a big draw, but I'm not sure that he's already this collosal star some claim, and why should we take Eddie's word that he's bigger than Canelo, Pac, or even Wlad? If he is, I have trouble buying that people like Brezeale and Molina were really the best available; a massive draw can lure good opponents with big paydays, hence why someone like Pac hasn't been 'forced' to face Jo Jo Dan.

crusader wrote:Is he even a bigger draw than Wlad? Wlad does huge TV numbers and gates in Germany, did 22k attendance in Switzerland and has done around 15-20k multiple times in the US, and still gets some of HBO's top US TV numbers, which put Joshua's American ratings to shame.

AJ is a big draw, but I'm not sure that he's already this collosal star some claim, and why should we take Eddie's word that he's bigger than Canelo, Pac, or even Wlad? If he is, I have trouble buying that people like Brezeale and Molina were really the best available; a massive draw can lure good opponents with big paydays, hence why someone like Pac hasn't been 'forced' to face Jo Jo Dan.

Yeah very true. I forgot about the numbers Klitschko does. I guess the argument against Wlad being bigger is however; is that most of Wlad fights are on RTL in Germany (maybe all of them actually) and thus he's not selling PPV's like Joshua is in large numbers.

On the flipside of that though- I think the UK is a very unique country in the way it gets behind it's sport stars (probably because we'be gotten used to a lot of failure when it comes to football/soccer) and will ultimately pay to watch then fight shit opponents.

True about RTL, although when 12-15m in Germany watch your fights I imagine that you're able to make those TV deals very lucrative.

crusader wrote:True about RTL, although when 12-15m in Germany watch your fights I imagine that you're able to make those TV deals very lucrative.

Yeah. I'm not saying he is bigger than Wlad; just that I'd imagine that would be the argument against Wlad being bigger. Those viewing figures are huge though!

The thing about Wlad is that he's already fought all over the world so arguably has a big name globally. Joshua's first Showtime fight was against Breazeale, which means he so far has almost no exposure to the US market. Also that fight wasn't prime time.

I think for the number of fights in, and the stage of his career, he's arguably the biggest draw at this stage of his respective career. Could you imagine Klitchko at 17 fights having the same impact. If Joshua carries on as he is, he could potentially be one of the biggest boxing stars of all time, but that still depends on a lot.

Rob3_142 wrote:The thing about Wlad is that he's already fought all over the world so arguably has a big name globally. Joshua's first Showtime fight was against Breazeale, which means he so far has almost no exposure to the US market. Also that fight wasn't prime time.

I think for the number of fights in, and the stage of his career, he's arguably the biggest draw at this stage of his respective career. Could you imagine Klitchko at 17 fights having the same impact. If Joshua carries on as he is, he could potentially be one of the biggest boxing stars of all time, but that still depends on a lot.

He's definietly got the platform to potentially achieve that. The sky hype machine, social media, etc- there's never been a greater time in history in regards to reaching a large audience. I could definietly see him topping over £100 million in earnings related to boxing.

I can only assume the fact that the poll isn't 100% in favor of Joshua by KO is some people just thought it was funny to vote something else.

AJ has the makings of superstardom and is a bigger draw after 3 years pro than Wlad was at the same time in his career, but Wlad wasn't already being called the biggest star in boxing.