BoxRec

davie wrote:I'd say a better gauge of someones hunger for big fights, isn't who they tell you they want to fight, it's who they share a ring with. We can all say "I want to face ******"

AJ has been World Champ for less than a year, let's give him a chance... But yeah, he still has a long way to go.

davie wrote:As yet Joshua's a million miles from compiling a list of top quality names to match Lennox's record.

Put it this way, if AJ beats Wladimir next spring, then Haye in the summer, then Ortiz in the autumn (as Hearn is trying to map out) - AJ will have done more in that time, than Lewis did for 4/5/6 years in the 90s.

Crease wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Ask me again in at least 5 years.

X2

Though in AJ's defense he does want the biggest fights out there and is willing to raise to every challenge. I'm not sure that the same could have been said for Lennox.

I thought that was the case with AJ, but with Eric Molina being his next opponent I'm not sure about that anymore.

Counter-puncher wrote:What, in gods name, are you on about?
You mean multiple challengers like, who exactly?

Did he fight the 1990s version of Mike Tyson? The one that slaughtered Frank Bruno?
Did he defend his IBF title against the mandatory challenger, Chris Byrd? No he vacated.
Did he defend his WBA title against the mandatory challenger, John Ruiz? No he vacated.
Did he give Ike Ibeauchi a title shot? No.
Did he give Vitali the rematch that the WBC ordered? No.


As much as people might want to think so, Lennox Lewis was not "The Lion" that people made him out to be.

davie wrote:

Crease wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Ask me again in at least 5 years.

X2

Though in AJ's defense he does want the biggest fights out there and is willing to raise to every challenge. I'm not sure that the same could have been said for Lennox.

I'd say a better gauge of someones hunger for big fights, isn't who they tell you they want to fight, it's who they share a ring with. We can all say "I want to face ******"

As yet Joshua's a million miles from compiling a list of top quality names to match Lennox's record.

gilgamesh wrote:I thought that was the case with AJ, but with Eric Molina being his next opponent I'm not sure about that anymore.

Klitschsko pulled out, wasn't his fault. In actual fact, Hearn did well to get him a fight against a challenger ranked in the IBF's top 10.
Still, it should be an easy nights work for him.

Crease wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:What, in gods name, are you on about?
You mean multiple challengers like, who exactly?

Did he fight the 1990s version of Mike Tyson? The one that slaughtered Frank Bruno?
Did he defend his IBF title against the mandatory challenger, Chris Byrd? No he vacated.
Did he defend his WBA title against the mandatory challenger, John Ruiz? No he vacated.
Did he give Ike Ibeauchi a title shot? No.
Did he give Vitali the rematch that the WBC ordered? No.


As much as people might want to think so, Lennox Lewis was not "The Lion" that people made him out to be.

Who has Joshua ACTUALLY fought to compare with Lewis?!

Crease wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:I thought that was the case with AJ, but with Eric Molina being his next opponent I'm not sure about that anymore.

Klitschsko pulled out, wasn't his fault. In actual fact, Hearn did well to get him a fight against a challenger ranked in the IBF's top 10.
Still, it should be an easy nights work for him.

I get that Klitschko decided to look for other options, but AJ and his team had at least 25 choices better than Eric Molina.

To claim the title lewis beat tucker and joshua beat martin,tucker would of destroyed martin,how do u think joshua would of done against tony tucker and how would lewis of done against martin? Joshua would of probably knocked tucker out late and lewis would of knocked martin out in one round. This debate is just for fun

Counter-puncher wrote:Who has Joshua ACTUALLY fought to compare with Lewis?!

Again, he's been Champ for less than a year, give the kid a break...

Crease wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:What, in gods name, are you on about?
You mean multiple challengers like, who exactly?

Did he fight the 1990s version of Mike Tyson? The one that slaughtered Frank Bruno?
Did he defend his IBF title against the mandatory challenger, Chris Byrd? No he vacated.
Did he defend his WBA title against the mandatory challenger, John Ruiz? No he vacated.
Did he give Ike Ibeauchi a title shot? No.
Did he give Vitali the rematch that the WBC ordered? No.


As much as people might want to think so, Lennox Lewis was not "The Lion" that people made him out to be.

Wasn't Tyson locked up long before Lewis was even considered a challenger?

Byrd and Ruiz? Come on. Huge mismatches and didn't he pursue bigger fights instead of facing them two?
Ibeabuchi became one of many contenders then got locked up.
Vitali? 38 years old and past his best. How long does a fighter need to go on for?

Lewis was unlucky in regards to certain fights. Tyson and Holy kept away from him as long as they could and the real big one with Bowe never happened for much publicised reasons ( I have always blamed Bowe's management )
Ibeabuchi getting banged up robbed Lewis of that fight and Sanders smashing Wlad about robbed Lewis of that fight too.

gilgamesh wrote:I get that Klitschko decided to look for other options, but AJ and his team had at least 25 choices better than Eric Molina.

I thought that at first too mate. But he has to defend within the IBF rankings:

IBF list.

1 Joseph Parker Fighting for the WBO title.
2 Kubrat Pulev - Refused 3 offers to fight AJ.
3 David Haye - Hearn wants that to be a stadium fight for next summer.
4 Johan Duhaupas -
5 Andy Ruiz - Fighting for the WBO title.
6 Carlos Takam - KO'd recently by a non-champ.
7 Vyacheslav Glazkov - Still injured.
8 Eric Molina

Crease wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:What, in gods name, are you on about?
You mean multiple challengers like, who exactly?

Did he fight the 1990s version of Mike Tyson? The one that slaughtered Frank Bruno?
Did he defend his IBF title against the mandatory challenger, Chris Byrd? No he vacated.
Did he defend his WBA title against the mandatory challenger, John Ruiz? No he vacated.
Did he give Ike Ibeauchi a title shot? No.
Did he give Vitali the rematch that the WBC ordered? No.


As much as people might want to think so, Lennox Lewis was not "The Lion" that people made him out to be.

And neither is AJ,charles martin? Brezeale? Molina? Cmon lewis beat holyfield tyson vitali morrison briggs ruddock golota avenged every defeat,lewis was the best heavyweight of his time the only guy he didnt face who he should have was bowe but that was down to bowe at first not lewis but hey AJ has his whole career ahead of him. AJ will get his recognition when he faces the likes of wilder pulev klitschko haye cause these are the best of his era atm. Lewis was a more rounded boxer than AJ,i like AJ i just think he needs to step in with the best and after this fight he is in with the best heavyweight of the past 10 years so we will see,i think AJ will destroy wlad within 4 rounds

Crease wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Who has Joshua ACTUALLY fought to compare with Lewis?!

Again, he's been Champ for less than a year, give the kid a break...

Which is exactly why you can't say he is more willing than Lewis to take on challengers, you loon!!!!!!

Crease wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:What, in gods name, are you on about?
You mean multiple challengers like, who exactly?

Did he fight the 1990s version of Mike Tyson? The one that slaughtered Frank Bruno?
Did he defend his IBF title against the mandatory challenger, Chris Byrd? No he vacated.
Did he defend his WBA title against the mandatory challenger, John Ruiz? No he vacated.
Did he give Ike Ibeauchi a title shot? No.
Did he give Vitali the rematch that the WBC ordered? No.


As much as people might want to think so, Lennox Lewis was not "The Lion" that people made him out to be.

SO many of your example are from when Lewis was finished, and Mike Tyson Vs Lennox Lewis had so much politics and stuupidity around it, it's a miracle it happened at all.

lillywhite14 wrote:Wasn't Tyson locked up long before Lewis was even considered a challenger?

He was released and back in the ring as early as 1995.

lillywhite14 wrote:Byrd and Ruiz? Come on. Huge mismatches and didn't he pursue bigger fights instead of facing them two?

Yep, he fought an old and fat version of Mike Tyson. Mike wasn't the same man after Holyfield beat him...
And Lewis didn't choose to meet him until FIVE years later.

lillywhite14 wrote:Vitali? 38 years old and past his best. How long does a fighter need to go on for?

As long as he wants I suppose, but doesn't a "true champion" face all challengers?

lillywhite14 wrote:Lewis was unlucky in regards to certain fights. Tyson and Holy kept away from him as long as they could

I think it was more likely that Lewis kept away from a prime Tyson for as long as he could.

BitPlayer wrote:SO many of your example are from when Lewis was finished,

Lewis dropped titles rather than face challengers... That's the facts.

Crease wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:Vitali? 38 years old and past his best. How long does a fighter need to go on for?

As long as he wants I suppose, but doesn't a "true champion" face all challengers?

I suppose you also think Vitali should've fought Stivern. Too sared maybe. Not the lion he's made out.

Crease wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:Wasn't Tyson locked up long before Lewis was even considered a challenger?

He was released and back in the ring as early as 1995.

Tyson had to come back to his best which he never did

lillywhite14 wrote:Byrd and Ruiz? Come on. Huge mismatches and didn't he pursue bigger fights instead of facing them two?

Yep, he fought an old and fat version of Mike Tyson. Mike wasn't the same man after Holyfield beat him...
And Lewis didn't choose to meet him until FIVE years later.

Who paid who step aside money kewis or tyson after the bruno fight???

lillywhite14 wrote:Vitali? 38 years old and past his best. How long does a fighter need to go on for?

As long as he wants I suppose, but doesn't a "true champion" face all challengers?

He faced all challengers and best everyone he fought what more do u want from him??

lillywhite14 wrote:Lewis was unlucky in regards to certain fights. Tyson and Holy kept away from him as long as they could

I think it was more likely that Lewis kept away from a prime Tyson for as long as he could.

As i said before who paid step aside money? It wasnt lewis

BitPlayer wrote:I suppose you also think Vitali should've fought Stivern. Too sared maybe. Not the lion he's made out.

First off, Vitali was 42 years old when he retired...
Secondly, Vitali was never known as "The Lion" (like the Canadian was)...
Thirdly, it is plausible that Vitali could have beaten Lennox in the rematch. Could anyone say the same with Stiverne vs Vitali? I don't believe so.

Crease wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:I suppose you also think Vitali should've fought Stivern. Too sared maybe. Not the lion he's made out.

First off, Vitali was 42 years old when he retired...
Secondly, Vitali was never known as "The Lion" (like the Canadian was)...
Thirdly, it is plausible that Vitali could have beaten Lennox in the rematch. Could anyone say the same with Stiverne vs Vitali? I don't believe so.

So really ur a kewis hater,tell me this who in the heavyweight division would of taken a fight with vitali with 2 weeks notice? Ill tell u lennox "the canadian lion" lewis

thechump wrote:So really ur a kewis hater

Far from it. I respect Lennox's achievements in the ring. In my books, he breaks in to the top 10 Heavyweights of all time.

But I do think that he is massively overrated by the British media. I've heard people talking about Lennox as unifying the Heavyweight titles, he didn't - that was Holyfield's achievement, bringing belts together to step in to the ring against Lennox.

But that doesn't necessarily make me "a hater", does it?
If it does, then I think labels are getting thrown around fair, fair too easily these days...

Crease wrote:

thechump wrote:So really ur a kewis hater

Far from it. I respect Lennox's achievements in the ring. In my books, he breaks in to the top 10 Heavyweights of all time.

But I do think that he is massively overrated by the British media. I've heard people talking about Lennox as unifying the Heavyweight titles, he didn't - that was Holyfield's achievement, bringing belts together to step in to the ring against Lennox.

But that doesn't necessarily make me "a hater", does it?
If it does, then I think labels are getting thrown around fair, fair too easily these days...

Was lewis not the wbc and holyfield the wba and ibf?

Crease wrote:

thechump wrote:So really ur a kewis hater

Far from it. I respect Lennox's achievements in the ring. In my books, he breaks in to the top 10 Heavyweights of all time.

But I do think that he is massively overrated by the British media. I've heard people talking about Lennox as unifying the Heavyweight titles, he didn't - that was Holyfield's achievement, bringing belts together to step in to the ring against Lennox.

But that doesn't necessarily make me "a hater", does it?
If it does, then I think labels are getting thrown around fair, fair too easily these days...

Anyway lewis was meant to fight winner of bowe vs holyfield 1 and got screwed out of that and it took 7/8years to make so lewis payed his dues and waited

davie wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:

dr_devious wrote:
He's not as good as Bruno.

He's bloody better for god sake. I'm not an AJ fanboy or anything but he's better than Bruno was.

I wouldn't say there is a huge amount in it, Frank was a very good fighter.
I'd say if the 2 were to fight, it would be a mid-rounds stoppage, with me maybe leaning 70-30 in Joshuas favour but I certainly wouldn't write Frank off

I don't think AJ would have had a great deal more success, had he faced the fighters on Bruno's record

Technique wise and build they are very similar but AJ has massive confidence in his own ability which Bruno lacked. That's half the battle at elite level.

Crease wrote:

davie wrote:I'd say a better gauge of someones hunger for big fights, isn't who they tell you they want to fight, it's who they share a ring with. We can all say "I want to face ******"

AJ has been World Champ for less than a year, let's give him a chance... But yeah, he still has a long way to go.

davie wrote:As yet Joshua's a million miles from compiling a list of top quality names to match Lennox's record.

Put it this way, if AJ beats Wladimir next spring, then Haye in the summer, then Ortiz in the autumn (as Hearn is trying to map out) - AJ will have done more in that time, than Lewis did for 4/5/6 years in the 90s.

If those 3 fights happen in the next 18 months, I'll eat my own head